Is atheism logical?

[cantata]

But, despite some rocky moments, it is pretty civilized and interesting- you'd almost think that everyone here was a Christian, rigorously following Biblical standards of polite discussion.

It's remarkable, isn't it, how non-Christians are just as morally upright as Christians? Anyone would think that Christianity didn't make a blind bit of difference to what kind of a person one is, in their everyday ethics...

No, surely not!

 

[Servant of Jesus]

It's remarkable, isn't it, how non-Christians are just as morally upright as Christians?

That's just been my point- that even those who profess to be atheists have- I submit- a God-given internal sense of right and wrong, and therefore are, as I have already acknowledged, generally good people.

 

[Servant of Jesus]

The Bible has standards of polite discussion?


eudaimonia,

Mark

See this thread.

Colossians 3:
12Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. 13Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.



James 1:
26If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.


1 Peter 3:
15But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.


Galatians 5:
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.


Philippians 4:
4Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! 5Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near.


Matthew 12
35The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."


2 Timothy 2
14Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. 15Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.


Matthew 8:
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.


It's not just about believing in God- it's also about following His advice on how to live your life.

 

[cantata]

That's just been my point- that even those who profess to be atheists have- I submit- a God-given internal sense of right and wrong, and therefore are, as I have already acknowledged, generally good people.

Wouldn't you like to take the credit for your good works? Why should God get the reps for them?

 

[Wiccan_Child]

That's just been my point- that even those who profess to be atheists have- I submit- a God-given internal sense of right and wrong, and therefore are, as I have already acknowledged, generally good people.

Then explain immorality. If everyone has a God-given sense of right and wrong, why are their suicide bombers (theists, no less)? Why was there the Holocaust, and the Crusades, and the live Aztec heart-sacrifices?

 

[Eudaimonist]

That's just been my point- that even those who profess to be atheists have- I submit- a God-given internal sense of right and wrong, and therefore are, as I have already acknowledged, generally good people.

A problem with this assertion is that one can just as easily assert something very different as the source or justification of moral action. And in the Philosophy area of CF, this is a glaring issue.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Hnefi]

That's just been my point- that even those who profess to be atheists have- I submit- a God-given internal sense of right and wrong, and therefore are, as I have already acknowledged, generally good people.

As others have indicated - if morality is absolute and comes from god, why are there so many versions of it? Why does the morality of individuals differ so much?

 

[Eudaimonist]

It's not just about believing in God- it's also about following His advice on how to live your life.

Thanks for the quotes.

But a problem with the statement above is that I can just as easily say that the Buddha was the most highly realized person in the history of mankind, and the standards of behavior that you mentioned are but an imperfect glimpse into proper behavior that the Buddha promoted in his eightfold path (in particular, "right speech").

And I could say that anyone could come to the same conclusions after a little experience with conversations. It is possible to simply see when conversations break down, and how politeness can keep them productive. Again, there's no need for the Christian God to exist.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[TeddyKGB]

That's just been my point- that even those who profess to be atheists have- I submit- a God-given internal sense of right and wrong, and therefore are, as I have already acknowledged, generally good people.

You don't really have a point. That the atheist's system of ethics is God-given follows only if God is assumed to exist. What you notice is actually a mere correlation; it is perhaps equally likely that many of the things God is said to permit or disallow are human-centric and were simply transferred to a character in a story.

 

[Servant of Jesus]

Then explain immorality. If everyone has a God-given sense of right and wrong, why are their suicide bombers (theists, no less)? Why was there the Holocaust, and the Crusades, and the live Aztec heart-sacrifices?

Because us human beings are- and always will be- imperfect.

My hypothesis on the suicide bombers is that they are soldiers of the devil- their acts are so barbaric, so unexplainable that only satan could have devised them.

 

[cantata]

Because us human beings are- and always will be- imperfect.

Ah, it's a win-win situation, then!

"Look, humans behave morally! Surely this is God-given!"
"But wait, there are some humans behaving immorally."
"Ah, well, er, that's because humans suck."

We behave morally because empathy was evolutionarily useful. Tadaaaa.

My theory on the suicide bombers is that they are soldiers of the devil- their acts are so barbaric, so unexplainable that only satan could have devised them.

What a solid and well-supported explanation.

 

[DeathMagus]

My [hypothesis] on the suicide bombers is that...

Fixed it for you.

 

[anonymous1515]

Fixed it for you.

Hahaha, there ya go! Thanks for clearing that up for him.

 

[Wiccan_Child]

Because us human beings are- and always will be- imperfect.

Nope. If we have a God-given sense of morality, then we are perfect: perfection can only create perfection, so our sense of morality is perfect, and so we ourselves are perfect (since an amalgamation of perfection and imperfection is itself impossible).

So are we imperfect, or do we have a God-given sense of morality?

My theory on the suicide bombers is that they are soldiers of the devil- their acts are so barbaric, so unexplainable that only satan could have devised them.

So they don't have a God-given sense of morality, they have a Satanic sense of morality. Gotcha.

 

[TeddyKGB]

My theory on the suicide bombers is that they are soldiers of the devil- their acts are so barbaric, so unexplainable that only satan could have devised them.

Unexplainable? The heck? We have an excellent working hypothesis: They are all but force-fed a religion - a twisted, manipulative religion but a religion nonetheless - that promises the most hedonistic of Earthly pleasures in heaven.

 

[Servant of Jesus]

We behave morally because empathy was evolutionarily useful. Tadaaaa.

So does a lion pouncing on a tourist display empathy; in other words, if empathy is evolutionary, do animals have it?

Actually, when I think about it, maybe my cat does recognize when I'm getting pummeled here on CF and tries to provide comfort.

 

[DeathMagus]

So does a lion pouncing on a tourist display empathy; in other words, if empathy is evolutionary, do animals have it?

Actually, when I think about it, maybe my cat does recognize when I'm getting pummeled here on CF and tries to provide comfort.

I'm not an evolutionary biologist, but I'm fairly sure that empathy for one's food source isn't an evolutionary advantage.

 

[Morcova]

Because us human beings are- and always will be- imperfect.

My hypothesis on the suicide bombers is that they are soldiers of the devil- their acts are so barbaric, so unexplainable that only satan could have devised them.

Oh please, that's the lamest excuse ever.

"The devil made them do it"

 

[Morcova]

So does a lion pouncing on a tourist display empathy; in other words, if empathy is evolutionary, do animals have it?

When was the last time you wept for your food source?


Lions and humans are different animals... unfortunately for us lions see us sometimes as lunch, and lets face it, if the lions that lived in zoos had to get their own food, they'd be hunting people. Probably the fact that we keep them well fed is why they don't maul more people.


All that said... it's generally not wise to torment 500 pounds of fur, teeth and claws.

 

[anonymous1515]

So does a lion pouncing on a tourist display empathy; in other words, if empathy is evolutionary, do animals have it?

Actually, when I think about it, maybe my cat does recognize when I'm getting pummeled here on CF and tries to provide comfort.

I should probably also point out that just because something is "evolutionary" it does not mean that EVERYTHING has it. Echolocation is an adaptive trait in bats. Why don't humans have it? Oh...yeah...because we're humans and not bats.