Is anything happening on the C/E front?

[Pete Harcoff]

Is it just me, or is the whole C/E debate quieting down? Not just here, but searching for news or visiting other forums, it seems things have died down a lot.

Anyone else notice this or is it just me?

 

[Washington]

I've noticed the same thing. Moreover, those topics that are brought up aren't generating much interest other than the usual irrelevant talk-to-me comments that regularly pop up regardless of the issue.

 

[AV1611VET]

Is it just me, or is the whole C/E debate quieting down?

In my opinion, when you filter out the blasphemy, the ad hominems, the jokes, and repeated questions, you find that evolutionists really don't have anything to say or ask. I'd say it's pretty clear-cut that the standard answer is "God did it"; and as I have said many times before: a Christian debater who can show "God did it"* in his answers is worth his weight in gold. Even I can't do that - (yet).

* The full spectrum would be:

• God did it.
• Fall did it.
• Flood did it.

 

[Tomk80]

Is it just me, or is the whole C/E debate quieting down? Not just here, but searching for news or visiting other forums, it seems things have died down a lot.

Anyone else notice this or is it just me?

I've noticed a decrease in the debate since the loss of Dover. I think generally the ID-movement infused the debate again when it was already dying down due to the general loss of creationism. Creationists already know they've lost the scientific debate, that's why they hide in strongly regulated safe-houses where criticism, no matter how polite, is strongly censored.

After ID was shown to be worthless, many probably turned their backs on it, because it's arguments are too abstract to appeal to many people. So that leaves you with the young- and old earth creationists who know they've lost on the one hand and thinking people on the other. Since all except a few creationists generally run away from forums where debate is allowed, like this one, the result is no debate.

 

[AV1611VET]

Since all except a few creationists generally run away from forums where debate is allowed, like this one, the result is no debate.

Ya --- I've been avoiding this forum for two and a half years.

 

[Tomk80]

Ya --- I've been avoiding this forum for two and a half years.

Which part of "all except a few" did you not understand?

Was it the "except" part, as in there are exceptions to this general trend? Or did the word "few" give you problems, as in the number of exceptions is not very high?

 

[AV1611VET]

Which part of "all except a few" did you not understand?

Was it the "except" part, as in there are exceptions to this general trend? Or did the word "few" give you problems, as in the number of exceptions is not very high?

So you did have me in mind!

Thank you ---

 

[Tomk80]

So you did have me in mind!

Thank you ---

Come on, how could I possibly forget you?

 

[juvenissun]

Come on, how could I possibly forget you?

I could have at least a dozen topics that will turn you evolutionists crazy. But I don't have time to do that (particularly on biology/genetics issues).

There are only so many issues related to CvE. However, any single issue could involve A LOT of details, such as the climate one currently going on in another thread.

Just like the enrollment of geology students go up and down in cycles (it is on the up rising trend now), this activity also does the same. But it will last, as long as there are evolutionist around.

 

[Tomk80]

Face it, Juvenissun. On biological issues the only thing you've presented so far is your ignorance. On geological issues when it comes down to it, you seldom present more than ignorance. You try to hide that ignorance behind being obtuse, but it shines through nonetheless.

I have no doubt that there will be ups and downs in the activity surrounding crevo. Giving the longlasting tradition of creationists in ignoring reality, I fully expect you to keep your hopes up in regard to a scientific form of creationism. I mean, you guys have predicted the demise of evolutionary theory for 150 years now. I fully expect you to up with a new incarnation of your dead horse flogging in the next years or decades, although I'm wondering which direction you'll take since with ID you've now seen that the molecular route doesn't work either.

Point remains that at this point in time you haven't got anything, given that ID-creationism as the latest reïncarnation of Paley's argument has again bit the dust. It has bit the dust both in its pretense at being scientific (although it never really tried to be scientific anyway, but at least it wanted to keep up the appearance) and as a political tool. And personally I don't think it is a coincidence that I've observed this decrease in activity since a certain court case in Dover. "Teach the controversy" just hasn't got that ring to it.

 

[AV1611VET]

There are only so many issues related to CvE. However, any single issue could involve A LOT of details, such as the climate one currently going on in another thread.

That "climate one" going on in another thread is an excellent example of why I couldn't care less about learning science in-depth. No Bible verses, no mentioning Jesus Christ --- just one long, boring, dead conversation.

 

[MoonLancer]

"Teach the controversy" was always the strangest idea to me. As if it was Nobel to teach 2 sides of made up confrontational topics... because everyone knows you have to let the children decided. How about the other side in the confederate war!!! or the Civil rights movement, or WW2?

 

[MoonLancer]

That "climate one" going on in another thread is an excellent example of why I couldn't care less about learning science in-depth. No Bible verses, no mentioning Jesus Christ --- just one long, boring, dead conversation.

if you only care to learn when Jesus Christ is indirectly involved, you must have stopped learning a long time ago.

 

[Skaloop]

A lot of the other forums are either being closed completely, or closed to non-Christians, or the rules have been changed to limit any real sort of interaction. So if someone like me wants to discuss (not even necessarily debate, but discuss) other religious topics, CF is no longer the place. And while C&E can be fun, it is still just one forum. There are just a few Creationists that have stuck around, and until they can come up with some sort of new argument that hasn't already been refuted or addressed, then the debate grows stale.

 

[AV1611VET]

There are just a few Creationists that have stuck around, and until they can come up with some sort of new argument that hasn't already been refuted or addressed, then the debate grows stale.

You're not from Athens, are you?

(For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)

 

[Skaloop]

You're not from Athens, are you?

No, but I've gone by it a few times on the train.

http://www.athensontario.com/

 

[Pete Harcoff]

In my opinion, when you filter out the blasphemy, the ad hominems, the jokes, and repeated questions, you find that evolutionists really don't have anything to say or ask.

Odd you would say that. From where I'm sitting, I find it's the creationists without much to say. Or rather they have a lot to say, but it's all been said many times before.

I'd say it's pretty clear-cut that the standard answer is "God did it"; and as I have said many times before: a Christian debater who can show "God did it"* in his answers is worth his weight in gold. Even I can't do that - (yet).

* The full spectrum would be:

• God did it.
• Fall did it.
• Flood did it.

I don't there's ever been a Christian who can show "God did it". It all comes down to faith in the end.

 

[Pete Harcoff]

I've noticed a decrease in the debate since the loss of Dover. I think generally the ID-movement infused the debate again when it was already dying down due to the general loss of creationism. Creationists already know they've lost the scientific debate, that's why they hide in strongly regulated safe-houses where criticism, no matter how polite, is strongly censored.

After ID was shown to be worthless, many probably turned their backs on it, because it's arguments are too abstract to appeal to many people. So that leaves you with the young- and old earth creationists who know they've lost on the one hand and thinking people on the other. Since all except a few creationists generally run away from forums where debate is allowed, like this one, the result is no debate.

So it ain't just me.

It doesn't surprise me that most creationists shy away from debate, since from reading the creationist-only forum, the biggest issues they seem to confront are Biblical interpretations. Not something they are going to find much support on here.

I'm curious how this will affect ongoing creationist ministries. I know ICR took a $1M hit in 2007 revenue compared to 2006. I'm curious to see how AIG is doing but can't get access to any post-2006 financials.

 

[Washington]

I think one of the problems is that creationists are tired of getting beat up by evolutionists. While their tactics work very well among the choir, they are quickly exposed for what they are by those who know better. Just sample some of the crap that Hovind, the Discovery Institute, and Answers in Genesis, to name but three, come up with. If I was set on following the teachings of my faith, one of which demanded an adherence to creationism, I would be embarrassed by its defenders. So much so that it would make me seriously reconsider the path I'd taken.

Creationism, being exposed as the bankrupt notion it is, just isn't attracting those who find it worth defending in an open forum. Far better to simply ignore what evolution proponents have to say, and repeat the "God did it" mantra over, and over, and over. Ignoring the other side is one of the time worn tactics of those unable to defend their position, and I think creationism has become just such a position.

 

[rjw]

Is it just me, or is the whole C/E debate quieting down? Not just here, but searching for news or visiting other forums, it seems things have died down a lot.

Anyone else notice this or is it just me?

I agree.

The past few months I have gone looking for forums with lots of YECs/IDers, and there appear to be none.

Even forums I used to visit a few years ago, appear to have died down.



Regards, Roland