Is anybody that accepts "Christ" considered a "Christian"?

[yonah_mishael]

What things were not "original to the faith"?

I should hate to speculate... or love to, but not here. But Messianics generally reject the interpolation of a pope, for example, into the faith. The rejection of Torah observance is a "later" addition (so we're told). Things of that sort. Beyond that, I can't get into things here.

And whether one calls Jesus "messiah" or "Christ"-what does it matter if the essential theology is the same?

Words form our frame of thinking. It makes a difference when it comes to how to approach the topic. Should it be approached through Torah or through Philosophy? Should we see משיח as directed related to David and the prophetic vision? Or, should we see Χριστός as a more universal character that is over and above the limited descriptions in the Tanach? That type of thing. Essentially, and I could be wrong on this, it seems that "messiah" is related more to the Jewish people and to the Tanach, while "Christ" is related more to God's eternal redemptive plan. Maybe someone here could tell me if I misunderstand that.

In other words, I would think that "messiah" is more horizontal while "christ" is more vertical.

 

[ChavaK]

I should hate to speculate... or love to, but not here.

Okay, I get your drift

But Messianics generally reject the interpolation of a pope, for example, into the faith.

So do Protestants

 

[Avodat]

Okay, I get your drift


So do Protestants

Although in the UK a number of Protestant Anglo-Catholic men deserted the Anglican communion to become a part of the Catholic Church as Ordinariates at the invitation of the Pope because of the proposal to enthrone women into the House of Bishops (I think it was).

 

[yonah_mishael]

So do Protestants

Protestants do not generally advocate Torah study (I won't say "observance," given the problems of that word) and the learning of the Hebrew language.

 

[Chaplain David]

and how come we have Non-MJs answering questions posed to us on our forum?

Shalom,

Good point. I respectfully advise non MJ's to read the Statement of Purpose for this forum. It is located here. http://www.christianforums.com/t7652097/ Several of the things that it says, but this post is by no means all inclusive, are that non MJ's may ask questions and post in fellowship, but we should not be answering questions, debating or teaching. I would submit that it is ok for us to answer a question if asked, however.

Faithfully,
CH Sacerdote

 

[Hoshiyya]

Is anybody that accepts "Christ" considered a "Christian"?


According to the dictionary, yes.
To claim to know who is truly saved, however, is to claim to be a mind-reader.

 

[astein]

Is anybody that accepts "Christ" considered a "Christian"?


According to the dictionary, yes.
To claim to know who is truly saved, however, is to claim to be a mind-reader.

Do all that accept Christ considered of God?

 

[astein]

Re the OP - certainly not!

How come?

Is not a Christian, a folllower of Christ, consider a high calling?

Who attempts to call themselve a Christian without acknowledging God as all?

 

[Avodat]

How come?

Is not a Christian, a folllower of Christ, consider a high calling?

Who attempts to call themselve a Christian without acknowledging God as all?

Have you not read this thread through? I explained this viewpoint back at post #18!

 

[astein]

I wasn't referring to Jews and those who do MJism, but other faith icons. Don't be so sensitive.

I can understand your concern.

Do we not love all? For God Himself created all. Do we not reject the hatred associated with rejection of God? Isn't God greater? Judge of all? Do we endure, regardless of how rejected? Your stance is justified and taken into consideration. How we love all of those that defend God in one form or another. Do we encourage all to learn of Gods ways?

 

[astein]

Have you not read this thread through? I explained this viewpoint back at post #18!

I will read it. Please read my response. Im going through them 1 by 1.

 

[Avodat]

I can understand your concern.

Do we not love all? For God Himself created all. Do we not reject the hatred associated with rejection of God? Isn't God greater? Judge of all? Do we endure, regardless of how rejected? Your stance is justified and taken into consideration. How we love all of those that defend God in one form or another. Do we encourage all to learn of Gods ways?

There is a vast difference in loving all one's fellow human beings to answering the OP question. My concern is that people fly faith flags of convenience - we even see it on here with icons - but those flags amount to nothing unless you have an active faith, lived out in the community of believers. Matthew 7:21 makes it clear that many will call on his name, even some of those who appear to be believers, but he will still reject them at the end. It is not as easy as the OP appears to indicate

 

[astein]

Is being a Christian a Sunday keeper, Easter and Christmas, and non-kosher eater, no law but grace believer.... Then your view of what is means to be a Christian is different from ours...

If I say that all of Gods laws are good and worship is of God on the day He prefers and grace is of the law of God, and kosher is of God, and that holidays are for God alone, do you believe that I am for God?

I speak of these in truth and truth has already defeated all that attempt to stand against it. God(G_d) is truth.

 

[astein]

There is a vast difference in loving all one's fellow human beings to answering the OP question. My concern is that people fly faith flags of convenience - we even see it on here with icons - but those flags amount to nothing unless you have an active faith, lived out in the community of believers. Matthew 7:21 makes it clear that many will call on his name, even some of those who appear to be believers, but he will still reject them at the end. It is not as easy as the OP appears to indicate

God(G_d) is good friend and judge of all the hearts. According to all scripture, new and old. Regardless of icon, one can understand that God is all, one. One being a very important insite. Oneness doesnt reject God, for God is all. How we owe Him all our praise and worship. It isn't some manmade tradition of rebellion and "being different". Who rejects the law of God and claims to be of God? Confusion? Obviously. God is all. His laws remain eternal.

 

[astein]

Well, it seems like a question that should provoke some good thought.
Don't see where to OP was limiting the question as to who may respond.
I was going to put in my view, but I guess not

I thank you Chavak, and please respond any way that you seem fit friend.

 

[astein]

I wasn't referring to Jews and those who do MJism, but other faith icons. Don't be so sensitive.

Sometimes the touchy seem to push away others and offend in ways, fueled by those that ignorantly respond and perhaps get misunderstood by others as well. It is all about love, and I welcome any to post as they see fit, minus the hatred for one another.

 

[astein]

To me, as an outsider, that is THE defining belief as to whether one is a Christian or not. Whether one is a seventh day sabbath believer (Messianic, SDA) or followers of the "L-rd's day" (non-Messianic or non-SDA Christians), or followers of Torah or not....all those are differences between Christian sects.

Thank you for posting Chavak.

Are there really so many "sects" between "christians", or are "christians" so misguided that they must take stance against another?

In other words, do "christians" fight against themsleves in pride and greed so much as to exclude G_d? Who came up with the divisions? G_d is one. Right? Who is so bent on making divisions a norm? Perhaps mans pride and arrogance?

 

[astein]

I think the terminology hinges on the way that Messianics do not generally call Jesus the "Christ" (Greek, Χριστό&#962 but rather the "Messiah" (Hebrew, משי&#1495. It is a purposeful disconnect from what is seen as a bad tradition, the tradition that calls him "Christ" and has served to bring into the religion that is formed around the man things that were not original to the faith. Messianics are attempting (whether successfully or otherwise) to eliminate the Greek side of things and get back to a simpler version of the faith that is in Jesus.

(The problem is that Paul was already calling him Χριστός even before the gospels were written, which puts us in a bind. How early is the earliest form? How Jewish was the form that became popular? What form of faith is really appropriate for a Messianic believer? I would ask specifically if some see Messianic Judaism as simply Rabbinic Judaism with Jesus included.)

I can respond to your latter response in your post. Christian, in a form, is a generic way of saying follower of Christ. "A believer in G_d" is an accurate way of saying one is fully commited unto G_d. As a meagerly gentile, I can understand how a "Jew" can feel "superior" considering, that "jews" are fortunate enough to be instructed by G_d, upclose, and personal. Lets us skip tippy toeing around the details(in this post, G_d have mercy), God is for the least, proving that the least are the greatest. Who, among men, appearing to be the greatest, "among men", attempts to claim to be better? Considering G_d is the Creator of all, and all was given. How am I, mere man, surrounded by giants of self pride and arrogance, supposed to explain that G_d is all, when the one surrounding me, claim to be better and void of G_ds law? How much must I suffer until the wicked are done away with? Im angry, yes. I suffer daily at the hands of those that blasphemy against God, curse against God, curse against me for being for God. And yet, Im not a jew by mans standards. Im alone, with God as my only friend. How am I to stand against those that constantly and intentionally try to harm me day after day? If I say that God is my only friend, do you believe me? Do you believe in the truth?

 

[astein]

We will get tied up in terminology here so I'll try and be as inclusive as I can:

I do not believe that you can be a Christian / Messianic, in the true sense of the word, unless you attend a congregation / fellowship (Messianic or Christian) and are an active member of that community if you are able to be so (being housebound, or suffering from illness or having a disability may limit, or severely restrict, some people from being active members of the community)

If one truly accepts Yeshua as Messiah (Jesus as Christ) then, yes, they are a Messianic / Christian and their love for him will drive them to be an integral part of the community. The emphasis is on your word 'truly' as opposed to being a Christian / Messianic as a matter of convenience to suit the needs I have already mentioned. It is a bit like a child being circumcised to get them in to a good Jewish school! I know that is not likely to happen but just for illustrative purposes.

Was Lot an active citizen of "the community"? I respond because the worldly ways demand greatly and produce rubbish. If G_d is all that one requires, who needs to be constantly abused by societys demands? Aren't are things good with G_d, as G_d Himself demands?

 

[astein]

Those who have interviewed plenty of parents about getting a child baptised or to get a child into a particular Church school, as I have, will know that, often, such affirmations are made with no conviction whatsoever; it is merely the means to an end. The number of baptised pagan adults and children on our streets makes the point - all will have professed their faith in Jesus, but that is usually the last time you see them until the woman gets pregnant again or the sibling needs to get into a particular Church school! I certainly wouldn't call them 'Christians' by any stretch of the imagination so my response to the OP remains 'Certainly not'.

That makes sense though, doesn't it?

Who is a believer in G-d unless they commit theyre entire life to G-d?

Can one that professes they believe in G-d, reject G-d is all theyre ways? Only if they are truely against G-d. In other words, a liar.

If one is for G-d, their works will prove them. Whether they are for G-d or against G-d. Do their deeds, do their thoughts gravitate towards intents against G-d? They aren't of G-d, for G-d is Holy, true.