• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured Is a lying prayer worse than a selfish one?

Discussion in 'Christian Advice' started by Questioning Brother, Apr 26, 2019.

  1. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +104,224
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    :heart: It's ok to be perfectly honest and transparent with God. He already knows what is in our hearts. Pray what is most pressing on your heart. Of COURSE you want and need relief from what is burdening you and causing you excruciating pain. Pray your heart out about it. Pour it all out just like David in the Old Testament in Psalms did. Even write it out, if that helps. Tell God about your pain. As you pour it all out, ask Him to intervene in your heart, mind, and soul, and ask Him to uphold, strengthen, and sustain you through it.

    By the way, it's not "selfish" to pour it all out, in all its honesty. It's just being "real" with God. If it hurts, tell Him. If we are weary and discouraged, we tell Him. If we cannot endure any more of what is paining us, we tell Him.

    Read Psalms and about the many times that David poured it all out to God, without holding back.

    Praying for you, brother. Hang in there. (((hug)))
     
  2. Questioning Brother

    Questioning Brother New Member

    67
    +48
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Republican
    To be honest, David's psalm prayers (and about half of his story), only serve to discourage me. If David, a self-proclaimed "man after God's own heart" can't get God to actually help him (The dying son, the ridiculously long delay between being anointed and crowned, and the constant warfare both internal and external), it just shows that God will leave you in the pain without actually helping. I don't want this stuff. I don't care what it is for, I don't care what he wants me to learn from it, and I really don't care about expanding his kingdom.
     
    • Prayers Prayers x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • List
  3. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

    +104,224
    Non-Denom
    Private
    US-Constitution
    There is a REASON that God called David a man "after His own heart", and the "apple of His eye". Regarding his son who died, it was the consequence of the horrendous and heinous sin(s) he committed when he, in essence, "raped" the wife of one of his most loyal soldiers (Bathsheba) and then premeditated and carried out the cold-blooded murder of this soldier (Uriah) after he (David) found out she was pregnant.

    Do you mind if i continue to pray for you? (I can relate to what you posted).
     
  4. Questioning Brother

    Questioning Brother New Member

    67
    +48
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Republican
    Ok si you advocate the lying prayer. Got it.
     
  5. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

    +10,954
    Christian
    Married
    You've got nothing.
     
  6. Questioning Brother

    Questioning Brother New Member

    67
    +48
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Republican
    God's will: go through these painful experiences and suffer

    My heart's desire: absolutely no suffering or pain

    So praying for his will would be a lie
     
  7. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

    +10,954
    Christian
    Married
    You seem to be insisting that God must do what you want Him to do.

    Clearly, that's a clash of wills that's up to you to resolve.
     
  8. Questioning Brother

    Questioning Brother New Member

    67
    +48
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Republican
    Still running into his will includes everything I want to avoid in life. So either I pray for what I actually want, or lie to him about about what I want in my prayers. I can't align my prayers with his will as long as the pain is there.
     
  9. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

    +10,954
    Christian
    Married
    No, if "running into his will includes everything I want to avoid in life," then what you have to come to grips with is the fact that you have never accepted Jesus as your Lord. At this point, you're simply flat-out rebellious.

    You're simply not willing to place His will over your own. There is no point praying for anything else until you come to grips with that and determine how you're going to handle that.
     
  10. Questioning Brother

    Questioning Brother New Member

    67
    +48
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Republican
    As things have gone from good (several years ago) to bad, I have lost trust in him.

    I used to follow and be content to move along as directed. In general it was always upwards, with a bad event being redeemed shortly. Ex. I got fired as an assistant manager at a convenience store so the manager's girlfriend (the senior assistant working at a different store) could be promoted to manager (if they had come to me I would've bowed out of her way). I even got an audible answer for why: "because you wouldn't move on". Less than a month later, I got a job more in line withy my geology major from college that paid in 3 days of work what the manager made in a week. My monthly income changed by like 5x what I had been making. Fast forward about 7 years. I was promoted at my job, making even more money. The only issue was working a lot away from the house (like 4-6 weeks at a time, with a few days between jobs). That changed due to external economics. I was laid off for 9 months. I finally got on with another firm. I prayed for that to never happen again. I sank into depression (not diagnosed, but I knew) during those 9 months. I still believed and trusted, but much less than before. I worked at that job for about 5 or 6 more years (raises, not really opportunity for promotion though). I prayed for several things, one of which was to settle down into a permanent house. I received an audible answer: no. To be honest that hurt. It really demolished my faith. It recovered some but again diminishing returns. Later, my wife had a stoke and heart attack. She was minorly affected by the stroke, and mostly recovered (90-95%). I ended up out of that job (about a year this time) again due to external economic issues. I decided to change careers to education this time. So less money by about half. Still things were starting to look up again, until June.. That's when my wife had a MAJOR stroke. The other one she had was minor. This one was a full on paralyzing half her body stroke. Her health has continued to decline and she has had 3 minor strokes since. Shortly after the first we got her assistance with medical and providers etc. In December, the agency handling that started putting a LOT of hoops to jump through and ended up cutting us off of the help when we couldn't manage some of them. I am still trying to fix that. I am paying someone out of pocket, and definitely losing ground economically. I am having to change jobs (I will claim responsibility for this). I am drowning. I pray, beg, and cry out to God for more ACTUAL help. Not spiritual, material help. All I get from Him and His will is more pain. I have pretty much lost all trust in him. I ONLY pray to Him now because A) He is the only one that can fix my wife (I pray constantly for a physical healing, not healing after she dies, I have enough faith to know that she will be healed after she dies) and B) I need more financial resources since a large section of what is killing my faith is related to money. I can't make it on the small amount he has supplied. I need him to give me ACTUAL help, not comfort, not spiritual help. Actual material help.
     
  11. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

    +10,954
    Christian
    Married
    From what you're saying here, you never trusted Him in the first place.

    You're complaining that He hasn't taken you to a satisfactory place when you've never given Him the wheel.
     
  12. Questioning Brother

    Questioning Brother New Member

    67
    +48
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Republican
    Actually, he steered me through a 12 year career and then a new career. Examples: when I lost the convenience store job, he put me in touch with acquaintances who could help me break into the oil production field. Later, when I needed $300 to start the Alternative Certificate Program (the way someone with a bachelor's degree not in education becomes a certified teacher in our state), He supplied that. I was broke and going to a funeral, when I parked and saw an older lady backing her car into a pickup truck, and starting to crush her rear panels near the lights. I stopped her and guided her into the spot and left t at that. Afterwards, my pastor (who knew I was trying to get up the$300) said she had approached him and asked if I needed anything. I didn't have a clue who she was, but she was the matriarch of one of the richest families in town. She paid for the starting fee. I know that was the hand of God. Before all of that, He even threw my wife in my path. (Trust me, biggest miracle ever!)

    With all of that, the problems lately have undermined ALL of that. It is as Joseph said of the 7 years of famine: the good years would be forgotten, it would be so bad. That is where I am at, the trust has eroded away. I need him to fix this stuff, because I can't put faith in a God that would allow this. I can't reconcile the loving heavenly father he showed me with the uncaring figure that has taken his place.
     
  13. samwise gamgee

    samwise gamgee Member Supporter

    113
    +43
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Republican
    Have you ever read the book of Job? It sounds as if you are going through the same kind of experience that he did. The difference is that although he complained he never lost his faith in God.
     
  14. Questioning Brother

    Questioning Brother New Member

    67
    +48
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Republican
    Yes. I have read it. Other difference is: i am not Job. I don't have that level of faith.

    In fact 2 things struck me about the book of Job. 1) God didn't do a full restoration: his kids were still dead. Replacements later wouldn't make up for that. 2) I often wonder what Job would have said and done if God had actually told him why he was struck the way he was. I really doubt Job would have kept his faith if he had known it was a wager between God and Satan that led to his troubles.
     
  15. samwise gamgee

    samwise gamgee Member Supporter

    113
    +43
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Republican
    Job's children were still dead but the time will come when they will be resurrected. When Job died he was reunited with them.

    If God had told Job the reason for his troubles he would not have needed faith. Then he wouldn't have experienced the strengthening of his faith that his troubles produced.

    Everything God does is for our good even though it may take time for us to realize that fact.
     
  16. Questioning Brother

    Questioning Brother New Member

    67
    +48
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Republican
    I was talking about the end of the book when God is talking to Job. If after all the pain, Job had asked why (which he did) and God had relied, "I had a bet with Satan about you.", Job would have walked away. I believe that is why God answered with the "shaming" questions, instead of straight up telling him.

    I don't want my faith strengthened. My faith will be nothing but hurt by problems. To strengthen my faith I need relief. Problems erode my trust in God, because there are 2 possibilities: 1) He doesn't care and is unwilling, in which case why bother with him, 2) He is unable to fix it, again, why bother? My faith is dying because I need him to act to fix the problems, not strengthen me for them, comfort me through them, or anything of that nature.
     
  17. samwise gamgee

    samwise gamgee Member Supporter

    113
    +43
    United States
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Republican
    Strengthening you and comforting you is the way God fixes problems.
     
  18. Questioning Brother

    Questioning Brother New Member

    67
    +48
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Republican
    So, which of those heals my wife? Which of those gets me the money I need to pay someone to help her or pays my electricity so I can afford to pay someone? The first isn't going to happen through a problem (or at least not in a direction towards God) and the second is just words without actual material help. Even the Bible states that last part:

    James 2:16 "And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?"

    That is God trying to comfort me without actually fixing anything.
     
  19. LovebirdsFlying

    LovebirdsFlying My husband drew this cartoon of me. Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

    +3,101
    United States
    Christian
    Married
    US-Others
    Before saying "not my will, but Yours be done," even Jesus Christ, the Lord Almighty, had to work Himself through a phase of "if it be possible, let this cup pass from Me." What He knew was about to happen, He didn't want to go through. He begged for it to be removed, and agonized for a long time before He could get to the point of surrender. "OK, Father. If I must drink from this cup, I'm ready."

    I believe God is big enough to handle our honest and true feelings. Pour your heart out to Him. Say what's really on your mind. When my husband had to change jobs recently, we were given the counsel, "Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God." Philippians 4:6. Let your requests be made known to God. You're allowed to tell Him exactly what your problems are, how you feel about it, and what you need fixed. And don't stop. Keep making those requests known until something changes. He doesn't mind. He's not like an earthly parent who's going to tell their children to shut up about it.

    But then He's going to work it out His way, and He wants you to trust Him to do that. Strengthening and comforting you is just to give you the peace of mind to stand back and watch Him work.

    As a personal testimony, my husband's new job.... he likes it better than the one he had for twelve years, and would never have quit unless circumstances forced him to. He wouldn't have anticipated things working out the way they did, but God always has a better way.
     
  20. Questioning Brother

    Questioning Brother New Member

    67
    +48
    United States
    Baptist
    Married
    US-Republican
    I did trust him. Then all this happened. His lack of protection and actual help (real help, not spiritual help which does absolutely nothing to help) destroyed that. My trust will NEVER get back to where it was. He made sure of that. If he wanted trust, love and praise from me, he needed to keep this from happening. Instead, this is his will.
     
Loading...