Is a Contiguous Count of Daniel’s 70 Weeks found in New Testament Writings?

[Zao is life]

Jeremiah 30:3 For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.
LOL

LOL you quote from chapter 30 as though chapter 29, which is talking about the same thing and the destruction of Babylon so that the people's captivity in Babylon can come to an end, doesn't exist, and you quote from chapter 30 ignoring @sovereigngrace 's quotes of chapter 29.

The chapter divisions were only inserted in 1227 A.D. It's extremely short-sighted IMO to ignore the fact that the passage and prophecy is talking about the Jews' return from captivity in Babylon and the destruction of Babylon. It's like you telling me about something that happened on Christmas Day in 1980 and me telling everyone that you were telling me about the election day of Trump in 2016.

I shouldn't have posted here though. I just broke my own self-imposed long suspension rule because I am very interested in this thread.

 

[Zao is life]

1. John the Baptist noted the start of the seventieth week.
"In those days John the Baptist came preaching in the wilderness of Judea, “repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand." (Matt. 3:1-2)​

When the ‘weeks’ are recognized as being one and the same thing as the Sabbatic cycles, John’s preaching is found to begin on a Sabbatical year, AD 26. It was the last year of the sixty-ninth week, 483 years after the decree of Artaxerxes. (Ezra 7:7-26) Therefore, John was in effect saying that the kingdom of God to be confirmed in the seventieth ‘week’ was immediately “at hand.”

Neither is it a coincidence that John’s best-known declaration sounds like a quote from Daniel. That is because it is a quote from Daniel. Therefore, the spiritual goals of Daniel’s prophecy were known to John the Baptist.

"The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!" (John 1:29)

“Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city … to make an end of sins." (Dan. 9:24)​

Before leaving John the Baptist, it may be worth comparing his introductory announcement with that of Jesus. John’s cry was, “the time is near,” differing slightly from Jesus’, “the appointed period of time is fulfilled (completed).” (Mark 1:14-15 Amp) The difference is subtle, but significant. John was the preacher of the sixty-ninth week, whereas Jesus was the preacher of the seventieth.

Thanks CG. I will be watching your posts for the rest

 

[DavidPT]

No, not in the 70th week. The 70th week does not begin until after the city and temple were destroyed.

In Daniel 9:25, the messiah arrives in Jerusalem after 62 weeks.

In Daniel 9:26a the messiah is cutoff after 69 weeks, the 7 weeks and 62 weeks of Daniel 9:25 combined. But not into the 70th week, because the 70th week is detached - by the destruction of the city and temple in 70 AD. And by the times of the gentiles in Luke 21:24, following Jerusalem falling to the Romans.

And Daniel 9:27 says NOTHING about the messiah cutoff in the 70th week in the text of Daniel 9.

If a person goes by events in the four gospels, Jesus arrived in Jerusalem, in John 12:12-15, hailed as the messiah. And 4 days later was crucified.

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Nothing in this verse is meaning outside of the 70 weeks. For example, if to make reconciliation for iniquity is meaning what happens when the Messiah is cutoff, the Messiah has to be cutoff during the 70 weeks. The first 69 weeks are during the 70 weeks. The 70th week is during the 70 weeks. What is not during the 70 weeks is a gap. A gap happens outside of the 70 weeks. If you have the Messiah being cutoff after 69 weeks, thus during the gap, that totally disagrees with verse 24 since that verse indicates these events are fulfilled within the 490 years, not during any gap instead.

My new position I think I will likely be adopting eventually, is that the gap is not between the 69th and 70th week, it's in the middle of the 70th week. There is clearly a gap in the 70 weeks. Verse 27 clearly proves it since that entire verse pertains to the 70th week. When the 70th week resumes after the gap, it is not involving 70 AD though, it is involving the 42 month reign of the beast in the end of this age. That's what I see 27b involving.

 

[Douggg]

If you have the Messiah being cutoff after 69 weeks, thus during the gap, that totally disagrees with verse 24 since that verse indicates these events are fulfilled within the 490 years, not during any gap instead.

Take a look at my thread...
Why Gabriel? And why the "man" Gabriel, in Daniel 9?

 

[Christian Gedge]

I hold to the B option, meaning that the 70 Weeks were contiguous and fulfilled at or about the time of Christ's death.

I actually believe that the 70th Week was not intended to be a full week. Even if it lasted only 3.5 years, it remains identified as the 70th Week.

My new position I think I will likely be adopting eventually, is that the gap is not between the 69th and 70th week, it's in the middle of the 70th week.

There are quite a few adopting middle positions. 'Hope for you yet.

 

[DavidPT]

LOL you quote from chapter 30 as though chapter 29, which is talking about the same thing and the destruction of Babylon so that the people's captivity in Babylon can come to an end, doesn't exist, and you quote from chapter 30 ignoring @sovereigngrace 's quotes of chapter 29.

The chapter divisions were only inserted in 1227 A.D. It's extremely short-sighted IMO to ignore the fact that the passage and prophecy is talking about the Jews' return from captivity in Babylon and the destruction of Babylon. It's like you telling me about something that happened on Christmas Day in 1980 and me telling everyone that you were telling me about the election day of Trump in 2016.

I shouldn't have posted here though. I just broke my own self-imposed long suspension rule because I am very interested in this thread.

Actually the laugh is on some of you, since unlike some of you at times, I can discern from the text what time period is likely meant. Verse 9 proves the time period meant can't be meaning prior to the first coming. King David was already dead when Jeremiah gave that prophecy. Either it means that king David is raised from the dead, that being when one shall serve him, or Christ is meant by king David. If the former, well that can't happen until the 2nd coming. It certainly never happened during the Babylonian exile. If the latter, that can certainly happen as of the first coming.

Nothing in verse 9 is still pertaining to the Babylonian exile. That verse is looking beyond that, not during it. Verse 7 is meaning during the same era verse 9 is meaning.

 

[Christian Gedge]

Thanks CG. I will be watching your posts for the rest

2. ST. LUKE LINKS THE SEVENTIETH WEEK TO THE JUBILEE YEAR.

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor.” (Luke 4:18-19)​

It has not gone unnoticed that the ‘year of the Lord’s favor’ is a direct reference to the Jubilee prophesied by Isaiah. (Isaiah 61:1-2) But it needs also to be remembered that Daniel’s seventy weeks is a span of ten Jubilee periods (49*10=490) and the tenth is the culmination of them all. So, Luke, although not explicitly mentioning the latter, would have been cognizant of both prophecies.

Dr. Sam Storms offers the following insight about it:

“The purpose of the seventy-weeks prophecy, was to secure that ultimate salvation, that release, redemption, and restoration of which the jubilee year was a type or symbolic prefigurement. When Jesus declares that in himself the jubilee of God has come, he is saying, in effect, that the seventy weeks of Daniel have reached their climax. the new age of jubilee, of which all previous jubilees were prefigurements, has now dawned in the person and ministry of Jesus. The goal of the seventy-weeks prophecy is the consummate jubilary salvation of God!” (Kingdom Come, Sam Storms)​

Luke’s mention of Jubilee is not alone: Matthew also alludes to it. (Matthew 11:5)

@DavidPT @Jamdoc The New Testament is not silent when it comes to Daniels seventy weeks.

 

[DavidPT]

2. ST. LUKE LINKS THE SEVENTIETH WEEK TO THE JUBILEE YEAR.

“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord's favor.” (Luke 4:18-19)​

It has not gone unnoticed that the ‘year of the Lord’s favor’ is a direct reference to the Jubilee prophesied by Isaiah. (Isaiah 61:1-2) But it needs also to be remembered that Daniel’s seventy weeks is a span of ten Jubilee periods (49*10=490) and the tenth is the culmination of them all. So, Luke, although not explicitly mentioning the latter, would have been cognizant of both prophecies.

Dr. Sam Storms offers the following insight about it:

“The purpose of the seventy-weeks prophecy, was to secure that ultimate salvation, that release, redemption, and restoration of which the jubilee year was a type or symbolic prefigurement. When Jesus declares that in himself the jubilee of God has come, he is saying, in effect, that the seventy weeks of Daniel have reached their climax. the new age of jubilee, of which all previous jubilees were prefigurements, has now dawned in the person and ministry of Jesus. The goal of the seventy-weeks prophecy is the consummate jubilary salvation of God!” (Kingdom Come, Sam Storms)​

Luke’s mention of Jubilee is not alone: Matthew also alludes to it. (Matthew 11:5)

@DavidPT @Jamdoc The New Testament is not silent when it comes to Daniels seventy weeks.

My argument is that it is silent in regards to the entire 70 weeks already being finished. Not one NT author ever claimed that that I'm aware of. As of lately I tend to think that maybe 69 and 1/2 weeks of it are finished, but certainly not the entire 70 weeks. 27b is also pertaining to the 70th week. Some see that pertaining to 70 AD, I don't. I see that pertaining to the 42 month reign of the beast, and that that 42 months haven't been fulfilled yet, thus the entire 70 weeks are not finished yet.

 

[keras]

My argument is that it is silent in regards to the entire 70 weeks already being finished. Not one NT author ever claimed that that I'm aware of. As of lately I tend to think that maybe 69 and 1/2 weeks of it are finished, but certainly not the entire 70 weeks. 27b is also pertaining to the 70th week. Some see that pertaining to 70 AD, I don't. I see that pertaining to the 42 month reign of the beast, and that that 42 months haven't been fulfilled yet, thus the entire 70 weeks are not finished yet.

Certainly, the 70thweek is not fulfilled yet. It will happen during the final 7 years before Jesus Returns.
There is not a gap in that time, the gap is nearly 2000 years between when Jesus was Crucified and the cutting of a 7 year peace agreement between the leader of the One World Govt and the leaders of the nation in the holy Land. As prophesied in Daniel 9:27 and referred to in Isaiah 28:14-15.
The second half of that 7 years treaty, is well prophesied in Revelation, but the first 3 1/2 years will be peaceful and therefore isn't mentioned in Prophecy.

I view the idea of making the first half of that 7 years as having happened in the 1st Century, as quite impossible and just playing with scripture.

 

[Christian Gedge]

My argument is that it is silent in regards to the entire 70 weeks already being finished. Not one NT author ever claimed that that I'm aware of. As of lately I tend to think that maybe 69 and 1/2 weeks of it are finished, but certainly not the entire 70 weeks.

The entire 70 weeks finished in the New Testament? Personally, I do think it all is finished, but I wont go there just yet. In the meanwhile I hope to convince you that the seventieth week got underway and is recorded as such in the New Testament. That would be a big step forward! Thanks for reading my posts.

 

[DavidPT]

The entire 70 weeks finished in the New Testament? Personally, I do think it all is finished, but I wont go there just yet. In the meanwhile I hope to convince you that the seventieth week got underway and is recorded as such in the New Testament. That would be a big step forward! Thanks for reading my posts.

In my mind, as major as this 70 weeks is, assuming it is already finished, folks should have been celebrating in the streets once it was finished, but instead we basically see folks being martyred in the streets around the time the 70 weeks allegedly ended. Not to mention, if the trangression concerning the holy city was finshed, why then was it destroyed some 35-40 years later? I do not see the logic in that. That would be like, once the great white throne judgment is finished, one can still be judged and sentenced to the LOF after that. No they can't and neither would Jerusalem be destroyed once the transgressions involving it are finished.

Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

This is involving a time when the trangressions concerning the holy city are finished. Verse 11 couldn't possibly be meaning before 70 AD and couldn't possibly be meaning 70 AD, therefore, it is meaning a time post 70 AD, a time that has not even arrived yet. This is meaning during the NHNE.

 

[DavidPT]

I view the idea of making the first half of that 7 years as having happened in the 1st Century, as quite impossible and just playing with scripture.

I used to think it was quite impossible myself since I used to argue against it and insist the gap is between the 69th and 70th week. Since you and I are both ex members of BF, you might recall a member there that went by the username Durbandude. That was his position that the gap is in the middle of the 70th week. That's basically when I first became aware of that position. That would have been some years back. Lately I'm beginning to wonder if he may have been correct after all? I don't know yet.

 

[Douggg]

It is sad that some of you cannot connect why it was Gabriel sent to Daniel in Daniel 9 and not some other angel.

 

[jeffweedaman]

In Daniel 9:25 Gabriel said to Daniel for him to know, that there would 7 weeks - from when the 70 years of captivity under the King of Babylon was over - to the issuing of a decree to restore an rebuild Jerusalem.

He didn't say that at all. Your way off.

This is what was said...,

25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;

 

[jeffweedaman]

It is sad that some of you cannot connect why it was Gabriel sent to Daniel in Daniel 9 and not some other angel.

It is sad why some fail to connect Gabriel of Dan 9 with the Gabriel in the NT.
He is the Angel of redemption oversees all 483 years.
He is involved in the promise of Messiah and the atonement of sin and he is on hand at his First coming. He encourages us to believe in Jesus who takes away the sin of the world.

 

[Douggg]

He didn't say that at all. Your way off.

This is what was said...,

25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;

In my post, I explained what v25 meant in context of the previous verses. Beginning with v2.

 

[Douggg]

It is sad why some fail to connect Gabriel of Dan 9 with the Gabriel in the NT.
He is the Angel of redemption oversees all 483 years.
He is involved in the promise of Messiah and the atonement of sin and he is on hand at his First coming. He encourages us to believe in Jesus who takes away the sin of the world.

The "Angel of redemption" ? Where are you getting that title as given for Gabriel?

 

[jeffweedaman]

The "Angel of redemption" ? Where are you getting that title as given for Gabriel?

Gabriel is mentioned by name in Daniel and in Luke. That's it.

1. Luke 1:19
   The angel answered and said to him, “I am Gabriel, who stands in the presence of God, and I was sent to speak to you and to bring you this good news.
   
   
2. Luke 1:26
   Jesus’ Birth Foretold
   Now in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city in Galilee named Nazareth

That was the same good news he gave to Dan. Gabriel is overseeing the beginning and the end of the 70 weeks by proclaiming Jesus as the one who would secure eternal redemption for us.

 

[Zao is life]

Actually the laugh is on some of you, since unlike some of you at times, I can discern from the text what time period is likely meant. Verse 9 proves the time period meant can't be meaning prior to the first coming. King David was already dead when Jeremiah gave that prophecy. Either it means that king David is raised from the dead, that being when one shall serve him, or Christ is meant by king David. If the former, well that can't happen until the 2nd coming. It certainly never happened during the Babylonian exile. If the latter, that can certainly happen as of the first coming.

Nothing in verse 9 is still pertaining to the Babylonian exile. That verse is looking beyond that, not during it. Verse 7 is meaning during the same era verse 9 is meaning.

My brother any king raised up to sit on the throne of David up until the time that Messiah the King was raised up to sit on the throne of David 2,000 years ago (and from then on and forever and ever), fulfills God's promise:

"Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me. It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah." (Psalms 89:35-37)

It's a.k.a The Davidic Covenant, and it's ultimate fulfillment is in Christ who was raised up 2,000 years ago to sit on the throne of David from then on and forever and ever:

" Behold, the days come, says the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Therefore, behold, the days come, says the LORD, that they shall no more say, The LORD lives, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
But, The LORD lives, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries where I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land. " (Jeremiah 23:5-8)

Jesus has been THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS ever since He died and rose again, therefore He has been on the throne of David ever since, and forever and ever. @DavidPT Was Israel delivered from captivity in Babylon or in Rome 2,000 years ago, like the above prophecy states?

Jeremiah oscillates constantly and consistently between speaking of Israel's judgment at the hand of Babylon, Babylon's judgment, and Israel's return from Babylonian captivity, and projecting the fulfillment of these prophecies onto the future time when Messiah would come and sit upon the throne of David, and in all these prophecies, Babylon = all the nations to which Israel had been scattered.

Lift your mind out of time when you read apocalyptic scripture brother, because Jesus existed from before the foundation of the world, and since everlasting, to everlasting.

 

[Douggg]

Gabriel is mentioned by name in Daniel and in Luke. That's it.

But "Angel of redemption" is not a title for Gabriel.

That was the same good news he gave to Dan. Gabriel is overseeing the beginning and the end of the 70 weeks by proclaiming Jesus as the one who would secure eternal redemption for us.

Gabriel is not "overseeing" anything.

Gabriel is an angelic servant to the Lord. Gabriel was sent by the Lord to Daniel in Daniel 8. And again in Daniel 9.

The vision in Daniel 9:23 is the time of the end vision about the little horn in Daniel 8. The 70th week is about when that vision of the little horn which takes place in the time of the end.