Is a Contiguous Count of Daniel’s 70 Weeks found in New Testament Writings?

[Douggg]

You are clearly incorrect.
Messiah arrives AFTER the 7 and 62 weeks ( 69 weeks).

Jesus arrived in Jerusalem, hailed as the messiah, in John 12:12-15.

12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.


4 days later, Jesus was crucified.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

.

 

[Douggg]

Instead of always voicing your opinion, instead of just giving fleeting references, please quote the literal text that states that "the messiah is cutoff before the 70th week begins."

I quoted John 12:12-15, the arrival of the messiah. Four days later he was crucified

And the text of Daniel 9 in sequential order...the messiah is cutoff...
... before the temple and city were destroyed in Daniel 9:26b
...which is before the confirmation of the covenant by the prince who shall come for the 7 year 70th week in Daniel 9:27.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

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Since John the baptist preceded the Messiah being cutoff - it is impossible for your opinion of John to have instigated the 70th week.

 

[jeffweedaman]

[QUOTE Douggg, ]Jesus arrived in Jerusalem, hailed as the messiah, in John 12:12-15.

12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.
[ /Quote ]



John the Baptist hailed Jesus as Messiah at his Baptism.


Jn 1
31 And I did not recognize Him, but so that He would be revealed to Israel, I came baptizing in water.” 32 And John testified, saying, “I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. 33 And I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.’ 34 And I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God.

 

[sovereigngrace]

I quoted John 12:12-15, the arrival of the messiah. Four days later he was crucified

And the text of Daniel 9 in sequential order...the messiah is cutoff...
... before the temple and city were destroyed in Daniel 9:26b
...which is before the confirmation of the covenant by the prince who shall come for the 7 year 70th week in Daniel 9:27.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

_________________________________________________

Since John the baptist preceded the Messiah being cutoff - it is impossible for your opinion of John to have instigated the 70th week.

Yes, read it: "after" the 69 weeks. Not before as you allege. That might explain your reluctance to quote the actual text.

 

[Douggg]

John the Baptist hailed Jesus as Messiah at his Baptism.


Jn 1
31 And I did not recognize Him, but so that He would be revealed to Israel, I came baptizing in water.” 32 And John testified, saying, “I have seen the Spirit descending as a dove out of heaven, and He remained upon Him. 33 And I did not recognize Him, but He who sent me to baptize in water said to me, ‘He upon whom you see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, this is the One who baptizes in the Holy Spirit.’ 34 And I myself have seen, and have testified that this is the Son of God.”

Jeff, until you guys get it through your head that the functional role of the messiah is to be the great King of Israel descended from king David, you will never understand the Daniel 9 prophecies and what will make the prince who shall come the Anti-christ. Being the messiah is about being the King of israel.

When John baptized Jesus, it was in the wilderness, not in Jerusalem. Nor was Jesus hailed the messiah by the Jewish people at that time.

The 70 weeks are determined upon Jerusalem and Daniel's people the Jews.

In Mark 15:32, the religious leaders mocked Jesus - but recognized the messiah is to be the King of Israel.

31 Likewise also the chief priests mocking said among themselves with the scribes, He saved others; himself he cannot save.

32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

After 69 weeks, Jesus arrived in Jerusalem, hailed by the crowd as the King of Israel.

4 days later Jesus was cutoff, crucified.

 

[Douggg]

Yes, read it: "after" the 69 weeks. Not before as you allege. That might explain your reluctance to quote the actual text.

I did not say before the 69 weeks. And I did quote the actual text
in my post #23.

And it is on my chart. There is nothing in Daniel 9 about the length of messiah's ministry. What is in Daniel 9 is his arrival, and his being cutoff.

 

[Douggg]

For Daniel 9 to fit some of you here's opinion, Daniel 9:25 would have to read something about there being 62 weeks until the Messiah is anointed, then after the Messiah is anointed, in Daniel 9:26a 3 1/2 years later is cutoff.

 

[Kenneth Heck]

I have a question: Why are the 70 weeks divided into 7, 62 and 1 weeks? If there is a time period between the 62 and 1 weeks, why isn't there a time period between the 7 and 62 weeks? Why couldn't the command to build the temple originally come from God, and was finally implemented by a Persian king?

 

[jeffweedaman]

Jeff, until you guys get it through your head that the functional role of the messiah is to be the great King of Israel descended from king David, you will never understand the Daniel 9 prophecies

The Dan 9 prophecies regarding the 70 weeks are about the laying of a solid foundation regarding Atonement for sin and at the same time becoming righteous in him forever through his death.

Read the Hebrews scriptures I post.

Heb 9
11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things to come, He entered through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation; 12 and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

It was the Lords death and blood on the cross that obtained Eternal redemption for the sins of the whole world....Through repentance.

And take a closer look at Dan 9:25 Does not Jesus arrive AFTER the 69weeks??

His death at the end of the 69th week or the 70th ?
The Lords death could only of happened in the 70th week.....because...,

24 “Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city,
to finish the transgression,
to make an end of sin,
to make atonement for iniquity,
to bring in everlasting righteousness,
to seal up vision and prophecy
and to anoint the most holy place.


His death hath already taken place placing the 70th week in the past

 

[sovereigngrace]

I did not say before the 69 weeks. And I did quote the actual text
in my post #23.

And it is on my chart. There is nothing in Daniel 9 about the length of messiah's ministry. What is in Daniel 9 is his arrival, and his being cutoff.



View attachment 312387

In Daniel 9:26a, the messiah is cutoff before the 70th week begins in Daniel 9:27. John the baptist preceded the messiah and him being cutoff in Daniel 9:26a. So it is impossible that John the baptist instigated the 70th week of Daniel 9.

After the 69th week places it in or after the 70th week. Very clear. This exposes your position.

 

[Douggg]

And take a closer look at Dan 9:25 Does not Jesus arrive AFTER the 69weeks??

His death at the end of the 69th week or the 70th ?
The Lords death could only of happened in the 70th week.....because...,

No, not in the 70th week. The 70th week does not begin until after the city and temple were destroyed.

In Daniel 9:25, the messiah arrives in Jerusalem after 62 weeks.

In Daniel 9:26a the messiah is cutoff after 69 weeks, the 7 weeks and 62 weeks of Daniel 9:25 combined. But not into the 70th week, because the 70th week is detached - by the destruction of the city and temple in 70 AD. And by the times of the gentiles in Luke 21:24, following Jerusalem falling to the Romans.

And Daniel 9:27 says NOTHING about the messiah cutoff in the 70th week in the text of Daniel 9.

If a person goes by events in the four gospels, Jesus arrived in Jerusalem, in John 12:12-15, hailed as the messiah. And 4 days later was crucified.

 

[Douggg]

After the 69th week places it in or after the 70th week. Very clear. This exposes your position.

No, it doesn't. After 69 weeks, places the messiah cutoff into the timeframe until the city and temple were destroyed 70AD.

The 70 week does not begin until after the temple and city were destroyed AND the time of the gentiles that followed 70AD in Luke 21:24. Which I show all those things on my chart.

 

[Douggg]

If the messiah was cutoff in 70 contiguous weeks, why is there even a mention of the 1 week in Daniel 9?

i.e after 69 weeks the messiah is cutoff but not for himself.

What then constitutes the remainder of the 70 weeks determined upon Jerusalem and Daniel's people, the Jews ?

 

[sovereigngrace]

No, it doesn't. After 69 weeks, places the messiah cutoff into the timeframe until the city and temple were destroyed 70AD.

The 70 week does not begin until after the temple and city were destroyed AND the time of the gentiles that followed 70AD in Luke 21:24. Which I show all those things on my chart.

View attachment 312390

No. That is Dispensationalist gerrymandering. The 70 weeks are unitary and sequential like every other harmonious time unit.

 

[jeffweedaman]

In Daniel 9:25, the messiah arrives in Jerusalem after 62 weeks.

No.
Read it again..,

25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.



[ QUOTE DOUGGG ]
If a person goes by events in the four gospels, Jesus arrived in Jerusalem, in John 12:12-15, hailed as the messiah. And 4 days later was crucified. ]


What did his death accomplish??? see Heb 9.


17 Jesus spoke these things; and raising His eyes to heaven, He said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify Your Son, so that the Son may glorify You, 2 just as You gave Him authority over all mankind, so that to all whom You have given Him, He may give eternal life.
3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

4 I glorified You on the earth by accomplishing the work which You have given Me to do.

5 And now You, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world existed.

It is accomplished....It is Finished.

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

I gave context. I showed you what the writer was actually talking about. This has absolutely nothing to do with some imaginary 7-years tribulation after a future rapture. You have to force that upon the text. That is Pretrib. They do not have one single proof-text in the whole of Scripture. That is why they have to force their opinions upon Scripture. Your fight is with Holy Writ here.

you see we have context that is in conflict with each other and I am sure you sincerely think your method of interpretation is correct so we disagree. The context I demonstrated was taken from the passages that note when David is raised up and in these passages they show that he is raised up after Israel has gone many days without a king or sacrifice and in the latter days and after Israel is gathered back from the nations where they were scattered and also this happens in the days of Jacobs trouble. You see you have Jacobs trouble dating back to the return from Babylon and that is odd since that is only one nation where Israel was scattered into and not the nations. Next you have to have David raised up at that time so that is again a stretch to think that he was raised up on the return from Babylon. Next is Jer 31 where the city is rebuilt at a time when dead bodies fill the valleys and from that time on it is holy and never thrown down again so it this is the return from Babylon the rebuilding took place when there were no dead bodies and after it was rebuilt it was torn down again which is a huge contradiction. The thing you accuse dispensationalist of doing you do yourself that namely is forcing your interpretation into the passages.

 

[RandyPNW]

Given the importance of Daniel's famous ‘70 weeks’ prophecy, it is sometimes wondered why New Testament authors do not seem to make explicit mention of it. There have been two reasons suggested:

1. The seventieth ‘week’ has been detached from the sixty-nine and is yet future. Therefore, its reference is only found in Revelation’s mention of 3½ years and 1260 days. This is the popular view known as ‘Dispensationalism.’
2. The seventieth ‘week’ is contiguous with the sixty-nine and was completed 3½ years after the death of Christ. This view is held by those who believe the goals of the seventieth week were fulfilled in the ministry of Christ and his disciples. Mention does exist, but in different New Testament terminology.

Everyone is welcome to share, but I will limit my answers to the second explanation, finding ‘weeks’ mentioned in the New Testament (albeit hidden), which demonstrates that the New Testament authors were aware of Daniel’s countdown to world redemption.

This is a great question, and one that has not been so easy for me. But I'll tell you what I think. I hold to the B option, meaning that the 70 Weeks were contiguous and fulfilled at or about the time of Christ's death.

I actually believe that the 70th Week was not intended to be a full week. Even if it lasted only 3.5 years, it remains identified as the 70th Week.

Most seem to think that if a 70th Week is mentioned at all, it has to be a full Week. I see no reason for that, if indeed we are told that something happens in the midst of the 70th Week that ends something intimately connected to the 70 Weeks.

And that thing is the death of Messiah. If the termination of animal sacrifice in the midst of the 70th Week is connected to the "cutting off" of Messiah, then that would effectively bring to an end the purpose of the 70 Weeks.

And the 6 things the 70 Weeks were designed to do included the things Messiah did. The reason this is so obscure is because its reality was only revealed in Jesus' life. And in the OT prophecy, much of this was left somewhat murky. But it's why I think the 70th Week was completed in just 3.5 years--not a full 7 years.

Where is this in the NT Scriptures? The "cutting off" of Messiah is literally the entire Gospel Message in the 4 Gospels! And the 6 things he was to accomplish was clearly connected to the disestablishment of Jewish offerings, when Rome crucified him.

Finally, Jesus predicted the demise of the temple, which is exactly what the 70 Weeks prophecy predicted, immediately following the end of the 70 Weeks. The Olivet Discourse is the NT Scriptural presentation of truth based on Dan 9, as even Jesus referred to Daniel in that Discourse.

 

[sovereigngrace]

This is a great question, and one that has not been so easy for me. But I'll tell you what I think. I hold to the B option, meaning that the 70 Weeks were contiguous and fulfilled at or about the time of Christ's death.

I actually believe that the 70th Week was not intended to be a full week. Even if it lasted only 3.5 years, it remains identified as the 70th Week.

Most seem to think that if a 70th Week is mentioned at all, it has to be a full Week. I see no reason for that, if indeed we are told that something happens in the midst of the 70th Week that ends something intimately connected to the 70 Weeks.

And that thing is the death of Messiah. If the termination of animal sacrifice in the midst of the 70th Week is connected to the "cutting off" of Messiah, then that would effectively bring to an end the purpose of the 70 Weeks.

And the 6 things the 70 Weeks were designed to do included the things Messiah did. The reason this is so obscure is because its reality was only revealed in Jesus' life. And in the OT prophecy, much of this was left somewhat murky. But it's why I think the 70th Week was completed in just 3.5 years--not a full 7 years.

Where is this in the NT Scriptures? The "cutting off" of Messiah is literally the entire Gospel Message in the 4 Gospels! And the 6 things he was to accomplish was clearly connected to the disestablishment of Jewish offerings, when Rome crucified him.

Finally, Jesus predicted the demise of the temple, which is exactly what the 70 Weeks prophecy predicted, immediately following the end of the 70 Weeks. The Olivet Discourse is the NT Scriptural presentation of truth based on Dan 9, as even Jesus referred to Daniel in that Discourse.

The king already come.

 

[Douggg]

No.
Read it again..,

25 So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress.

Daniel 9:2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

Daniel recognized that the 70 years of captivity under the king of Babylon, as Jerusalem was made desolate of most of its population, was about over. the matter

Gabriel in v23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.

In Daniel 9:25 Gabriel said to Daniel for him to know, that there would 7 weeks - from when the 70 years of captivity under the King of Babylon was over - to the issuing of a decree to restore an rebuild Jerusalem.

Then once the decree has been made - another 62 weeks unto the messiah, Jesus.

Gabriel was letting Daniel know that the Prince of princes who would break the little horn person would be the messiah.
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The one week, the 70th week, deals with the vision of the little horn time of the end, who will stop the daily sacrifice (from Daniel 8:12-13) in the middle of that one week. The little horn will eventually stand up against the Prince of princes, Jesus, in the time of the end. And the messiah, Jesus, will break him. At Jesus's return.