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Irrefutable evidence of 4th Commandment support by pro-Sunday sources

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bugkiller

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QFT and thanks

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BobRyan

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Check the timestamp on this post --

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BobRyan

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Sept 13 - 2014 we have



And we have a number of posts by Listed and others after that -- 2013 trying to solve the problem on behalf of those who declare themselves to be at war with all 10 of God's Ten Commandments.

I think that anyone who has something that might help that group out with compelling substantive response to that 7 point list - would be welcome to contribute.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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bugkiller

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Points 1 and 2 are incorrect in that they are 100% untrue. The word Sabbath doesn't even appear until Ex 16. It is evidenced Moses had to ask what to do with a violator. The Sabbath wasn't practiced and certainly not mentioned. God didn't bless the Sabbath in Genesis 2. God blessed the 7th day of creation only. This day was never repeated again. There is no evidence any human kept this with God.

It has been presented over and over by several posters in this forum the Sabbath was given exclusively to Israel with quoted text from Exodus and Deuteronomy besides Galatians and Ephesians.

I'll accept point 3 as it reads.

Point 4 applies only to Israel as a whole. Commandments 5 through 10 are moral commandments. They can be and are used to teach morals. As law and requirements they aren't binding on Christians. Loving God and others fully cover ever aspect of the 10 Cs except the one purely ceremonial commandment (4). Any celebration or observance of any kind about anything is ceremonial in nature. The NC excuses the Christian from observance because it is not cited in the NC. There is no sin in not observing the 7th day Sabbath. Numerous passages have been quoted and requoted often backing this up. The OP regularly and simply dismisses them. One of my favorites is Jer 31:31-33. There are many other great ones.

Point 5 is incorrect because the OP means the 10 Cs are written on the heart which Jer 31:31-33 shows otherwise. Besides the NC is based on better promises and not law.

Point 6 is incorrect because law voids grace and grace voids law. No criminal ever begs for the law to apply. They always ask for exception from it. Our pro law friends aren't an exception. The requirement of the law is death for violation. The law always gets death for violation.

Point 7 is also incorrect because of my favorite passage on this promising a new covenant based on promises unlike the old covenant based on law. There are plenty more.

If this brief post isn't sufficient I will be most happy to discuss any point in nauseating detail again.

bugkiller
 
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BobRyan

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My claim about Section 19 of the "Baptist Confession of Faith" and Section 19 of the "Westminster Confession of Faith" and D.L. Moody's sermon on the TEN Commandments

as follows --

If we all stay on the subject of the OP - it will work fine -
============================================

Here is an example of claims made by the pro-Sunday sources - and 6 of the 7 are actually correct according to the Bible!.


Yes that is right - 6 of the 7 are actually common ground between Sabbath keeping and Sunday keeping Christians.


1. That the Sabbath Commandment is first given to mankind in Gen 2:1-3
2. That all mankind was obligated by the TEN commandments in the OT and to this very day.
3. That the seventh day as the Sabbath was Saturday the seventh day of the week from Gen 2:1-3 until NT times - including at the cross.
4. That the Ten Commandments are the moral Law of God
5. That the moral law of God is written on the heart under the New Covenant
6. that the Ten Commandments as the moral law of God are in no way opposed to grace and the Gospel.
7. That the Sabbath commandment can rightly be BENT by man-made-tradition to point to week-day-1 after the cross.

I agree with 6 out of 7 as listed above - and yet many who post against God's TEN commandments object to all of the points listed above. And sometimes they will even go on to complain that so many of the points above are in agreement with my position and opposed to the war-against-the-Ten-Commandments position.

================================

Some are certaily at war with all 7 points as we have seen in so many text. The point is not that the anti-Ten-Commandment groups are not at war with those 7 points. The point is that the majority of pro-sunday scholarship admits to the points listed.




bugkiller said:
Points 1 and 2 are incorrect in that they are 100% untrue. The word Sabbath doesn't even appear until Ex 16.
Click to expand...

so then two issues - 1- that the pro-sunday scholars argue those first to points - and second that you oppose them on those two points.

And I also agree with their position - so you say we are all wrong on those two points - yet cannot refute the fact that the pro-sunday scholars named do take those positions and you oppose them.

They point to the Sabbath in Gen 2:1-3 where the day is made a holy day. And where even God says in Ex 20:11 that this is exactly what happened in Gen 2 on day 7.

An obvious point that those pro-sunday sources did not miss.

bugkiller said:
It is evidenced Moses had to ask what to do with a violator. The Sabbath wasn't practiced and certainly not mentioned. God didn't bless the Sabbath in Genesis 2.
Click to expand...

Until you read God's statement in Gen 2:1-3 and Ex 20:11 where He says that it exactly what He did.

Indeed - they oppose not only the Bible on that point but even the majority of pro-sunday scholarship. The 7 day week of Genesis 1:2-2:3 is eactly what we are observing in memorial - each week -- as God Himself states in Ex 20:8-11.


I'll accept point 3 as it reads.
Click to expand...
So then you are not at war with all 7 of the points made by the majority of even pro-sunday scholarship -- nice!

in Christ,

Bob
 
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BobRyan

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Not according to the majority of even pro-sunday scholarship. And in Ex 20:8-11 nothing predictive - it is purely a memorial of the Gen 2 completion.

And also - in Gen 2 - no ceremonial sacrifice -- Even Moody admits that the Sabbath was kept in Eden by Adam.


bugkiller said:
The NC excuses the Christian from observance because it is not cited in the NC.
Click to expand...

The Sabbath commandment is reference several times in the NT - but the 3rd commandment is never quoted at all - where you thinking that taking
God's name in vain must be ok - since it is never quoted not even in part in the NT???

No such Bible rule about deleting what is not constantly repeated-- thankfully.

bugkiller said:
There is no sin in not observing the 7th day Sabbath. Numerous passages have been quoted and requoted often backing this up. The OP regularly and simply dismisses them.
Click to expand...

1 John 3:4 "Sin IS transgression of the LAW"

1Cor 7:19 "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"


James 2 - break one - you break them all.


So then some place .. somewhere someone was successful in refuting the OP -- just can't find it??

bugkiller said:
One of my favorites is Jer 31:31-33. There are many other great ones.
Click to expand...

Jer 31:31-33 is quoted in Heb 8 - and remains. Exegesis demands that the Law as known to Jeremiah and his contemporary readers include the TEN Commandments.

Obviously. Irrefutable.


Point 5 is incorrect because the OP means the 10 Cs are written on the heart which Jer 31:31-33 shows otherwise.
Click to expand...

Jer 31:31-33 does not "Show otherwise" --- as we all know.


bugkiller said:
Besides the NC is based on better promises and not law.
Click to expand...

The NC specifically mentions law "I will write my Law on their heart and on their mind" this is in both NT and OT quotes of the NC.

We all knew that.

bugkiller said:
Point 6 is incorrect because law voids grace and grace voids law.
Click to expand...

Not according to the New Covenant.

Not according to James 2.

Not according to Rom 3:31.

Not according to Romans 6.

Not according to 1John 5:1-4

Not according to Rom 2:13.


bugkiller said:
No criminal ever begs for the law to apply. They always ask for exception from it. Our pro law friends aren't an exception. The requirement of the law is death for violation. The law always gets death for violation.
Click to expand...

And "yet" that LAW is "written on the heart and mind" Heb 8 the SAME Law that Jeremiah knew about in Jer 31:31-33.

The SAME Law that Paul declares in Eph 6:2 to have as the "FIRST commandment with a promise" -- the 5th Commandment.

A statement ONLY true in what scripture calls "The TEN Commandments".


You oppose not only the Bible but even the majority of pro-Sunday scholarship on 6 of their 7 points.

Interesting.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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BobRyan

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bugkiller said:
It should be noted I didn't respond to the OP and the material wasn't part of the post I responded to. Sorry Bob.

bugkiller
Click to expand...

I notice that you did not respond to the summary points - my reason for bringing them up is that they refuted your wild claim that you had some quote from me saying that D.L. Moody is not a pro-sunday source, not a pro-sunday preacher when in fact I make this claim about his positioin in all of my posts - it is in my signature line and I have never claimed that he was preaching against Sunday as Sabbath in the NT after the cross.

And we both know it.

You claim to have refuted something - and I simply give evidence that this cannot possibly be true - because what you claim you have proven - is one of the points I have been promoting all along - and I offer "proof" of my position in details that you had been apparently ignoring (including in my signature line) or simply did not think were so glaringly apparent to all by now.

in Christ,

Bob
 
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Alithis

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