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The exact words referred to were "fell from grace".Adam and Eve were not Israelites.
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The exact words referred to were "fell from grace".Adam and Eve were not Israelites.
The exact words referred to were "fell from grace".
The devil also believes, and trembles.Sorry there is no scripture for that. Anyone can believe.
Their lives were not pointless. "22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction?" Romans 9Scripture says God is love. Jesus said "God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Jesus did NOT say "God so loved only the elect/chosen that they will believe in his only begotten son and not perish."
I cannot believe a God, who is love, created the majority of mankind to live pointless lives, with no hope, and, depending on one's belief, either be annihilated or suffer for eternity in hell. That does not fit "God s love."
What does "majority" have to do with it? You may as well be a universalist, since by your logic even one person should not be condemned. Or do some deserve condemnation to eternal punishment and others do not? And who enabled you to make such a proclamation? Why do you think you can judge God's love, or even define it?Scripture says God is love. Jesus said "God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Jesus did NOT say "God so loved only the elect/chosen that they will believe in his only begotten son and not perish."
I cannot believe a God, who is love, created the majority of mankind to live pointless lives, with no hope, and, depending on one's belief, either be annihilated or suffer for eternity in hell. That does not fit "God s love."
Funny how having a 50-50 chance of being chosen for hell fire would put God's choice last. You had better hope that is not God's choice for you. You may only think you believe.
So John 3:16 really means that God does NOT love the world but only the elect, because only the elect can choose to believe on Jesus and those who are not elect will perish and there is nothing that either group can do to change it?Their lives were not pointless. "22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction?" Romans 9
We are not capable of knowing the extent and flavor of God's love. Nobody can reconcile what God does by judging according to their opinion of Love. His love is what it is, not because he chose to be loving, since love is good to have, but Love is what it is because God is love.
His love involves his justice, precise and thorough justice, even upon Christ who took the sin of those God chose upon himself. There is a particular Creation God has made, and this is how he made it, for us to know him. Not for us to all have a wonderful eternity, but for himself to be glorified. And yes, EVERY knee will bow.
What does "majority" have to do with it? You may as well be a universalist, since by your logic even one person should not be condemned. Or do some deserve condemnation to eternal punishment and others do not? And who enabled you to make such a proclamation? Why do you think you can judge God's love, or even define it?
Because "we don't know" there is in our eyes, or from our point of view (something we might be able to do about it, if we think were on the wrong course right now, etc) but not from God's point of view, and that is the very important distinction here. It is because "we do not know" that we might be able to do something about it from our point of view, but God already knows, etc, but we do not, etc, and because we don't, well, now I'm about to repeat myself, but hopefully you get my point maybe (maybe)...So John 3:16 really means that God does NOT love the world but only the elect, because only the elect can choose to believe on Jesus and those who are not elect will perish and there is nothing that either group can do to change it?
I don't have a real problem with that but I was replying to a Calvinist argument which is that God has chosen some to be saved and some to not be saved. And according to Calvinism there is nothing that either group can do to change their fate.Because "we don't know" there is in our eyes, or from our point of view (something we might be able to do about it, if we think were on the wrong course right now, etc) but not from God's point of view, and that is the very important distinction here. It is because "we do not know" that we might be able to do something about it from our point of view, but God already knows, etc, but we do not, etc, and because we don't, well, now I'm about to repeat myself, but hopefully you get my point maybe (maybe)...
God Bless!
That's what they'd have you believe. Except they can't prove it. They also can't prove that they are of the elect. You see one of the 5 points is perseverance of the saints. They can't be lost. So, if any of these who claim they're of the elect and fall away they prove that they were never saved to begin with. Their own argument leaves them in limbo until they die.So John 3:16 really means that God does NOT love the world but only the elect, because only the elect can choose to believe on Jesus and those who are not elect will perish and there is nothing that either group can do to change it?
So John 3:16 really means that God does NOT love the world but only the elect, because only the elect can choose to believe on Jesus and those who are not elect will perish and there is nothing that either group can do to change it?
When John uses the word "world", he usually is referring to the world of non-believers.Even we, in English, and even more so in several other languages, use the phrase, "the whole world"
(and John 3:16 doesn't even say WHOLE world), to mean "everybody" of a large group.
God does have a special love for the elect, and none other will be saved.
What do think about all of those NT election verses?There is nothing in Scripture to say that
a) God has chosen some sinners to be saved but not others
and
b) that God has more love, or a special kind of love,
for those whom he has chosen to save.
What do think about all of those NT election verses?
And the NT verses about some people being called and chosen?
The fact is ... many are called, but only a few are chosen!
No.
ALL have sinned.
Christ died for sinners.
When mankind was lost in sin, without God and far from God, God the Father sent his Son to die for the world so as to reconcile it to himself, 2 Corinthians 5:18. God IS love, 1 John 4:8 and the cross is the demonstration of his love, 1 John 3:16.
There is nothing in Scripture to say that a) God has chosen some sinners to be saved but not others and b) that God has more love, or a special kind of love, for those whom he has chosen to save.
No.
ALL have sinned.
Christ died for sinners.
When mankind was lost in sin, without God and far from God, God the Father sent his Son to die for the world so as to reconcile it to himself, 2 Corinthians 5:18. God IS love, 1 John 4:8 and the cross is the demonstration of his love, 1 John 3:16.
There is nothing in Scripture to say that a) God has chosen some sinners to be saved but not others and b) that God has more love, or a special kind of love, for those whom he has chosen to save.
Wow. Nothing in Scripture to say those two things? Are you a universalist?
Logically, then, I can take you to say that Scripture shows that: a) God chose all (or none) of sinners to be saved,
Logically, then, you are contradicting yourself. You take away decision from God, relegating it to man. Man is demonstrably not sovereign. Therefore, by your logic, it is up to chance, who will and who will not choose God.
By your logic, some are simply better people than others, having made a better choice than others.
To say that you make a choice out of mere being, without influence, with all sovereignty, is more than anyone I know will say,
If there is some influence, then God is the one causing it all.