Intimacy

[Zecryphon]

if I did that & forced them to eat my cooking,
they could sue me for attempted murder

You're still cooking? And your husband is still living? It's a miracle. Forgive me. Such raising of the hands in the air is so unLutheran.

 

[Zecryphon]

He is omnipresent, maybe you mean call?

Do you even know what omnipresent means? Because from what I've been reading you're not too clear on how this whole salvation thing works. The actual Greek word that is used there means "draw." So the verse would read:

Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Here is Strong's entry on the word translated "draw."

G1670
ἑλκύω, ἕλκω
helkuō helkō
hel-koo'-o, hel'-ko
Probably akin to G138; to drag (literally or figuratively): - draw. Compare G1667.

And here is Thayer's entry for that word:

G1670
ἑλκύω / ἕλκω
helkuō / helkō
Thayer Definition:
1) to draw, drag off
2) metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: probably akin to G138
Citing in TDNT: 2:503, 227

Either word "draw" or "drag" blows away your previous assertion that Jesus is just standing outside the door waiting for you to open it up and invite Him in. The scriptures clearly show that Jesus came to seek the lost.

Luk 19:10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost."

Did you ever read the parable of the lost sheep? Let me post it for you, maybe this will help you understand what is happening.

Luk 15:1 Now the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to hear him.

Luk 15:2 And the Pharisees and the scribes grumbled, saying, "This man receives sinners and eats with them."

Luk 15:3 So he told them this parable:

Luk 15:4 "What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it?

Luk 15:5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing.

Luk 15:6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.'

Luk 15:7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

Luk 15:8 "Or what woman, having ten silver coins, if she loses one coin, does not light a lamp and sweep the house and seek diligently until she finds it?

Luk 15:9 And when she has found it, she calls together her friends and neighbors, saying, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found the coin that I had lost.'


*ALL SCRIPTURE TAKEN FROM THE ENGLISH STANDARD VERSION

 

[Zecryphon]

Different Christians from different churches and different social circles. These ones that think ramming their opinion down your throat is a way to go.

The phrase "ramming it down your throat", what does that mean to you? How are these Christians ramming it down your throat? I find this phrase gets a lot of mileage when people have had evangelists approach them wishing to share the gospel and the people couldn't believe that people would stop them on the street to talk about something as trivial as religion, in their eyes of course. So what does this phrase mean to you?

 

[Zecryphon]

All the Christians I know, WELCOME and support Christians going out with
the gospel to people....

I find it interesting that you call it "ramming it down their throats".

Would you say this of the prophets & disciples too? They went
out into the streets proclaiming Christ.

She's probably thinking of people like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA0gmiuJ6sQ

But ask yourself this while watching this video. Just who is it that is "ramming it down their throats"?

 

[Nadiine]

She's probably thinking of people like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vA0gmiuJ6sQ

But ask yourself this while watching this video. Just who is it that is "ramming it down their throats"?

ROFL

oh that's a good observation!

The problem with this is that in our days of spiritual rebellion and
rejection of truth, having any type of open air sessions is essential
suicide lol
Unless you're a scholar that can make silly putty out of people
with facts & knowledge, you may want to bypass this type of
thing.

Our culture is too hostile to God & Christianity today to accept
this type of witnessing & you'll have gangs forming. hehe

I think people should only attempt this
if they KNOW God is calling them in it specifically.
If not, you'll end up being chewed up & spit out & probly look
the fool in the process.
(like the sons of Sceva situation)


(then again, this is nothing new historically)

 

[Zecryphon]

ROFL

oh that's a good observation!

The problem with this is that in our days of spiritual rebellion and
rejection of truth, having any type of open air sessions is essential
suicide lol
Unless you're a scholar that can make silly putty out of people
with facts & knowledge, you may want to bypass this type of
thing.

Our culture is too hostile to God & Christianity today to accept
this type of witnessing & you'll have gangs forming. hehe

I think people should only attempt this
if they KNOW God is calling them in it specifically.
If not, you'll end up being chewed up & spit out & probly look
the fool in the process.
(like the sons of Sceva situation)


(then again, this is nothing new historically)

I agree and disagree with you at the same time. I don't think it's suicidal to attempt this. That's where we disagree. Where we also disagree is that this is a specific calling of God and should only be done by people who have received that calling. Matthew 28:19-20, everyone is called to do this. But what must first happen is that people have to be trained, just as Jesus' own disciples and apostles were trained. They had two to three years of direct teaching by Jesus before they went out into the world to proclaim the good news and baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

It is not unreasonable for people in today's day and age to be trained for a considerable period of time before attempting open air preaching. This same ministry however holds evangelism days where they teach you how to evangelize someone in about 3 minutes and then sends those people out on the streets to apply this formula. That's bad. Because people only know this one approach, they don't know their Bibles most likely, they haven't read or studied them, they know nothing of apologetics or exegesis. So this ministry is really throwing people to the wolves, so to speak. I believe that evangelism is a serious matter and should only be undertaken by those who have seriously prepared for such an undertaking. My last church spent 4 hours training people for this type of work. It's not enough. I would say 3 months at the very least. Six months or a year would be better. This is serious, it's time we as Christians started taking it seriously.

 

[Nadiine]

I agree and disagree with you at the same time. I don't think it's suicidal to attempt this. That's where we disagree. Where we also disagree is that this is a specific calling of God and should only be done by people who have received that calling. Matthew 28:19-20, everyone is called to do this. But what must first happen is that people have to be trained, just as Jesus' own disciples and apostles were trained. They had two to three years of direct teaching by Jesus before they went out into the world to proclaim the good news and baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

It is not unreasonable for people in today's day and age to be trained for a considerable period of time before attempting open air preaching. This same ministry however holds evangelism days where they teach you how to evangelize someone in about 3 minutes and then sends those people out on the streets to apply this formula. That's bad. Because people only know this one approach, they don't know their Bibles most likely, they haven't read or studied them, they know nothing of apologetics or exegesis. So this ministry is really throwing people to the wolves, so to speak. I believe that evangelism is a serious matter and should only be undertaken by those who have seriously prepared for such an undertaking. My last church spent 4 hours training people for this type of work. It's not enough. I would say 3 months at the very least. Six months or a year would be better. This is serious, it's time we as Christians started taking it seriously.

K Zec you just supported my point tho.
It USED to be that the Bible was accepted as truth in general.

Today, the Bible is rejected in general and unless you have a
scholar's degree in how the bible came to be true & are able to
prove the bible isn't a work of ancient fiction sprinkled with some
Jesus philosophy in it, you won't get anywhere anymore.

At least back in the day, the bible was a common ground of
acceptance to a large degree.
You can't just go with 'evangelism' anymore, they challenge
the word of God at the source and lack reverence for Him
altogether.

The only thing you can do if called into this ministry is prepare
well in advance and expect the majority of mass rejection but
pray God prepares hearts to recieve.
You may be able to reach one in the crowd who isn't hostile
to truth & God's word.

 

[god's_pawn]

so um, i'm wondering what all of the debate currently going on in this thread have to do with the OP.... any chance you folks want to get back to the original topic? you're welcome to reply to my last post before this one which is a little more (dare i say a lot more) on topic. (the mentioned post is on the page previous to this one, third to last i think)

sorry for the interuption but if this thread continues in its current direction we're going to find ourselves in a Calvinist-Arminean debate.

 

[Thaeoles]

so um, i'm wondering what all of the debate currently going on in this thread have to do with the OP.... any chance you folks want to get back to the original topic? you're welcome to reply to my last post before this one which is a little more (dare i say a lot more) on topic. (the mentioned post is on the page previous to this one, third to last i think)

sorry for the interuption but if this thread continues in its current direction we're going to find ourselves in a Calvinist-Arminean debate.

Yeah, it seems like it's heading in that direction. I had addressed it in an earlier post before it went down that path, but it seems my warning was overlooked. Unfortunately, the thread has been severely off-topic for quite a few pages now. Maybe there's some hope in returning to the OP.

 

[god's_pawn]

Yeah, it seems like it's heading in that direction. I had addressed it in an earlier post before it went down that path, but it seems my warning was overlooked. Unfortunately, the thread has been severely off-topic for quite a few pages now. Maybe there's some hope in returning to the OP.

i certainly hope so.

 

[Zecryphon]

K Zec you just supported my point tho.
It USED to be that the Bible was accepted as truth in general.

Today, the Bible is rejected in general and unless you have a
scholar's degree in how the bible came to be true & are able to
prove the bible isn't a work of ancient fiction sprinkled with some
Jesus philosophy in it, you won't get anywhere anymore.

At least back in the day, the bible was a common ground of
acceptance to a large degree.
You can't just go with 'evangelism' anymore, they challenge
the word of God at the source and lack reverence for Him
altogether.

The only thing you can do if called into this ministry is prepare
well in advance and expect the majority of mass rejection but
pray God prepares hearts to recieve.
You may be able to reach one in the crowd who isn't hostile
to truth & God's word.

Nadiine, you're forgetting how Ray Comfort evangelizes and
how he teaches people to evangelize. It's a law and
gospel approach. He takes these people through four
or five of the Ten Commandments, then asks them if
they have kept them. If they haven't then he tells them
how God is going to view them on Judgment Day.

For instance someone, by their own admission could
be a lying, murdering, adultering, thief who has to stand
before a Holy and just God who does not tolerate sin.
So the next question the evangelist asks is "where do you
think you will end up? In Heaven or in Hell? This type of
witnessing is very quick and it keeps the non-Christian
answering the questions. A discussion of the inerrancy
or genuineness of the Bible shouldn't even be taking
place. But such topics are covered in a comprehensive
evangelism training course. We can't give people a
method and then throw them to the world. They need
proper training, which I wanna say this ministry offers
in their School of Biblical Evangelism course. I think
that course takes a year or so to complete. But since they
promote decision theology, I have neve examined it.

 

[Nadiine]

so um, i'm wondering what all of the debate currently going on in this thread have to do with the OP.... any chance you folks want to get back to the original topic? you're welcome to reply to my last post before this one which is a little more (dare i say a lot more) on topic. (the mentioned post is on the page previous to this one, third to last i think)

sorry for the interuption but if this thread continues in its current direction we're going to find ourselves in a Calvinist-Arminean debate.

well when I came back in on the thread last, the OP had given a
stereotype of the mean, abusive Christian who beats down doors to
witness to people & shoves it down their throats.

That's how it got to this point at the moment.
But I'm happy to get back to topic all the same

 

[Zecryphon]

so um, i'm wondering what all of the debate currently going on in this thread have to do with the OP.... any chance you folks want to get back to the original topic? you're welcome to reply to my last post before this one which is a little more (dare i say a lot more) on topic. (the mentioned post is on the page previous to this one, third to last i think)

sorry for the interuption but if this thread continues in its current direction we're going to find ourselves in a Calvinist-Arminean debate.

I personally have no intention of returning to the OP.
I don't see this heading definitely into an Arminian-
Calvinist debate as if those are the only two schools
of thought on that issue. Threads go off topic. This thread
has had some fifty-plus pages to cover intimacy. What
more needs to be said that hasn't been said already?
I find the fact that semi-Pelagianism is being unknowingly
promoted far more interesting than the topic of
'How far is TOO far'?

 

[elephunky]

I always wanna get to the OP, but it seems like a lost cause.

 

[elephunky]

well when I came back in on the thread last, the OP had given a
stereotype of the mean, abusive Christian who beats down doors to
witness to people & shoves it down their throats.

That's how it got to this point at the moment.
But I'm happy to get back to topic all the same

Dude, i wasnt giving stereotypes, someones sig made me comment and then things started on how some people think ramming it down others throats were a good idea and it stemmed from there.

 

[Zecryphon]

dGirl, threads are like conversations, they eventually
move away from the OP and go in many different directions
eventually. But since you'd like to get back to the OP, what more
needs to be discussed regarding intimacy?

 

[god's_pawn]

dGirl, threads are like conversations, they eventually
move away from the OP and go in many different directions
eventually. But since you'd like to get back to the OP, what more
needs to be discussed regarding intimacy?

well, you could comment on the post i mentioned above, i believe it's on page 14 toward the bottom...

 

[david_x]

I always wanna get to the OP, but it seems like a lost cause.

Slippery slope: use extreme caution.

(That was my attempt to get it back on OP)

 

[Zecryphon]

well, you could comment on the post i mentioned above, i believe it's on page 14 toward the bottom...

Did you even read my response to your post up above? I said I have no intention of discussing the OP because I believe everything that can be said about the OP has been said. In fact, everything that really needed to be said WAS said by page eight, and this thread was straying from the OP by page four or five.
So this thread was clearly never going to be focused solely on the OP. Guess it wasn't as interesting to some people as making God in the OT into some kind of monster who doesn't deserve our respect or our worship.

*sigh*

 

[Nadiine]

Did you even read my response to your post up above? I said I have no intention of discussing the OP because I believe everything that can be said about the OP has been said. In fact, everything that really needed to be said WAS said by page eight, and this thread was straying from the OP by page four or five.
So this thread was clearly never going to be focused solely on the OP. Guess it wasn't as interesting to some people as making God in the OT into some kind of monster who doesn't deserve our respect or our worship.

*sigh*

I don't know about it not being as interesting, but some topics do have
a limited lifespan just becuz they don't take alot to cover.
I think this was one of them and I definitely agree that discussions
take a winding path as they continue and they do go off topic eventually
when there's little else to share.