Intimacy

[Nadiine]

Such a false "god" is more properly labeled a monster.

then perhaps you don't like the God of Israel

 

[homewardbound]

Either prayer influences him, or it doesn't. If it doesn't, then phooey on that. If it does, then it does.

Then we disagree on that point. Prayer changes us, not God.

'Prescribed response' is just a fancy way of saying: "Because someone prays, God does something different." That's a change of mind.

No, it isn't. The change is with us, not God. It's a matter of us aligning with his will, not him changing his mind because of a prayer we utter.

Not sure what that example has to do with God's omniscience.

It doesn't. Nor was it meant to.

We're talking about prayer here. Who would pray for God to reconsider? Why would God do it? God answers prayer because of love. God died on the cross because of love. The example doesn't provide a problem.

I'm not sure what you mean here, but I agree that he died because of love and he answers prayer because of love...even when he doesn't answer our prayers the way we want him to.

 

[one11]

To say God's mind changes is to say, in a way, that he changes.

If you don't like that terminology, then you might say that God can be influenced.

Only by way of Yeshua who is our mediator. Romans 8

34Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

 

[DD2008]

Malachi 3:6

6 “For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.

 

[homewardbound]

*back to topic*

If lust in the mind constitutes the sin of adultery as Jesus stated, then it all depends on what goes on in a person's mind at each "base" they get to.

Since the bible doesn't specify how far a person can go (outside of the
sex acts themselves), it's up to us to analyze our thoughts & desires for the other person & act accordingly.

I think James puts it best becuz it's so simple & covers all
sin for each person privately where specifics aren't taught
(ie. Christian liberties):

James 4:17


Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it,
to him it is sin.

Yes, back to the topic. My apologies for my part in getting us sidetracked.

To your first point...I'm married, so I avoid hugging women other than **very** briefly in greeting. Going back to my dating days, though, I have to say I never kissed a woman without wanting something more, and that in my opinion is wrong. And I can't say it would be any different for me now if I were single. I think the overwhelming majority of men, if they are honest, would say the same....we're just wired to be more responsive to physical stimulus when it comes to opposite sex.

My advice to the OP....once you engage in physical activity, you're on a slippery slope. Admittedly, I'd be laughing at my own advice if I were in my 20s, but I've had the chance to see the results of a lot of mistakes.

 

[elephunky]

A lot of interesting posts....mainly about hwo God never changes...

There are a lot of things in teh Bible that I have come across that reads to me as more the culuture and fashion of the time. I dont think we will ever really know if its actually what God intended for us or what the men in the authorities at the time intended.

Perhaps I see things differently in regards to sexual matters because Im impure. And when I thorw myself into God and all that I somehow get blinded to whats happening in the rest of the world, i become naive and self righteous.

 

[Tissue]

Saw it, did you?

The changelessness of God's attributes, I mean.

Only by way of Yeshua who is our mediator. Romans 8

34Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

Then Jesus changes God's mind, not us?

Then we disagree on that point. Prayer changes us, not God.

No, it isn't. The change is with us, not God. It's a matter of us aligning with his will, not him changing his mind because of a prayer we utter.

I'm not sure what you mean here, but I agree that he died because of love and he answers prayer because of love...even when he doesn't answer our prayers the way we want him to.

That is a rather weak view of prayer, far weaker than most Christians would be willing to say. We find instances of God apparently changing his mind, or 'remembering' people in Scripture. That prayer merely changes us to be in accordance with his will ultimately doesn't mean anything, as we, to an extent, have no choice in the matter (assuming one understands God's will as the over-arching presence that affects everything in our world). Prayer, under your understanding, is a pointless endeavor.

That's not to say you're wrong, mind you; I'm not going to quote Scriptures about this (I'm sure someone else will). But it does appear to be an outcome of your position.

 

[Nadiine]

A lot of interesting posts....mainly about hwo God never changes...

There are a lot of things in teh Bible that I have come across that reads to me as more the culuture and fashion of the time. I dont think we will ever really know if its actually what God intended for us or what the men in the authorities at the time intended.

Perhaps I see things differently in regards to sexual matters because Im impure. And when I thorw myself into God and all that I somehow get blinded to whats happening in the rest of the world, i become naive and self righteous.

Well, even in culture, we're given the guidelines of not to stumble
others (ie. if we're trying to make men lust after us, then is that
pleasing to God?) and to dress modestly (modest attire).

Of course you'll get people who go to extremes on this with the
Amish outfits & burlap sacks or claiming we can look like a
street walker & God's ok with it lol.
But again, most of this is what goes on in the heart/mind in our
motives.

We might as well be honest with God becuz He knows us anyways.

As far as the self righteous comment, well that's a fine line to distinguish when we're pleasing God in obedience or actually prideful like the Pharisee's got.
But you're 22 yrs old, it takes time and age to mature in the Lord -
& even then older folks haven't all arrived with that either


It takes time and God's working =)

 

[Nadiine]

Malachi 3:6

6 “For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.

That's pretty clear to me

 

[Texas Lynn]

then perhaps you don't like the God of Israel

The one who in the OT directed the Hebrews to enslave women and children of captured tribes and massacre the men was a mighty evil dude, but whether that was a representation of the real God or not is not indicated.

As for the God of Israel of today, I guess people could worship real estate...

 

[Texas Lynn]

The changelessness of God's attributes, I mean.

No disagreement but human understanding of same constantly changes.

 

[Nadiine]

The one who in the OT directed the Hebrews to enslave women and children of captured tribes and massacre the men was a mighty evil dude, but whether that was a representation of the real God or not is not indicated.

As for the God of Israel of today, I guess people could worship real estate...

Are you aware that the OT law is GIVEN BY JESUS CHRIST?
He is the Lawgiver.
And in the NT, He promoted God's law & obeyed them perfectly.

Read Hebrews 9-11 - about the Mediator of the new covenant.
The maker of it has to die to enact it. That's Jesus.

So the same Jesus of the NT is the God of the OT who gave the
first covenant.
He's the same God, the covenant changed - judgment now comes
at the end - for this period of time, grace is enacted & gentiles
are grafted in.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Are you aware that the OT law is GIVEN BY JESUS CHRIST?
He is the Lawgiver.
And in the NT, He promoted God's law & obeyed them perfectly.

Read Hebrews 9-11 - about the Mediator of the new covenant.
The maker of it has to die to enact it. That's Jesus.

So the same Jesus of the NT is the God of the OT who gave the
first covenant.
He's the same God, the covenant changed - judgment now comes
at the end - for this period of time, grace is enacted & gentiles
are grafted in.

I think that's the meme but an oversimplification that does not account for nuances.

 

[elephunky]

I think it would be harder to remain non sexy if you dont see sex as a major spiritual or meaningful / groundbreaking thing

 

[&Abel]

I don't

some of the most holy men and women remain(ed) chaste

I haven't experienced it and I'm willing to die without

I have to wonder what type of spirituality your tapping into while having premarital sex(in fact I know)

 

[Nadiine]

I think that's the meme but an oversimplification that does not account for nuances.

Sorry I don't understand what's oversimplified exactly TL?

Jesus IS the same God that gave the OT laws...
people pointing to Jesus in the NT as if He's some direct opposite contrast -- a nicer, more loving God now are in blissful ignorance.

Anyone attacking the "nasty OT God" is attacking Jesus Christ
directly. That is the point being made.
That "monster god" you refer to of the OT was JESUS Himself.
He literally followed & obeyed that Law in human form on this
earth - and taught it.
Why are people looking at it with disdain and repulsion???

So you reject that Jesus & embrace this NT Jesus instead?
His judgment will be just as harsh in the NT (as you read in the NT) -
as it was in the OT.
His justice is simply being delayed for a later time, after death.

He didn't all of a sudden become Cuddles the teddy bear in the NT & all the judgment & wrath dissappeared. & the law isn't even gone...
some of it's changed due to His fulfillment of it - moral laws never changed, they are still the display of "LOVE" of neighbor as self.

Romans 13:9
For this, " YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET,"
and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

The obedience of the moral law IS LOVE - and thereby fulfilling the [moral] law of God that is still active & unchanged.
Our altering of moral law & deciding what we can do becuz isn't
harm" is not love, it's rebellion & unloving.

Jesus said:
Matthew 18:9
" If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you
It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.

Matthew 10:28
"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul;
but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Matthew 18:6
but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble,
it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

Matthew 11:24
"Nevertheless I say to you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom
in the day of judgment, than for you."

 

[homewardbound]

A lot of interesting posts....mainly about hwo God never changes...

There are a lot of things in teh Bible that I have come across that reads to me as more the culuture and fashion of the time. I dont think we will ever really know if its actually what God intended for us or what the men in the authorities at the time intended.

Perhaps I see things differently in regards to sexual matters because Im impure. And when I thorw myself into God and all that I somehow get blinded to whats happening in the rest of the world, i become naive and self righteous.

Our culture is no doubt different than in biblical times, but sinful human nature hasn't changed all that much, and God's view of it hasn't changed at all. What has changed significantly is our tolerance of sin. Our social norms have changed radically just in the past 100 years. That doesn't mean that God has a "looser" view of what is right or wrong. He is pretty clear about that in the bible.

If you struggle with sexual sin, join the club...most people do at one time or another. Doesn't mean you have to stay that way, and if you think you can redefine God's view of morality, forget about it. Try spending a few months focusing on the attributes of God rather than what you yourself are or aren't doing. I'll bet you won't feel very naive or self-righteous after that.

 

[No Swansong]

So, how much intimacy should be allow in a relationship? Some think that kissing someone your not married to, even though your in a relationship, is sexually immorally. Some think that its ok to do everything minus the actual act of intercourse.

Thoughts? Opinions? Arguments for either side?

By this post and others in the thread it sounds as if you have already decided. I don't understand the purpose of the thread.

 

[HuntingMan]

I don't understand the purpose of the thread.

Justification, apparently.

 

[Nadiine]

I don't

some of the most holy men and women remain(ed) chaste

I haven't experienced it and I'm willing to die without

I have to wonder what type of spirituality your tapping into while having premarital sex(in fact I know)

I didn't get that she was engaging in premarital sex from her post -
maybe I didn't read it well enough?
I thought that happened in the past but she was wondering what
the boundaries are?