Intimacy

[elephunky]

Actually, I'm quite certain you believe God changes. What effectiveness would prayer have if God never changed?

At any rate, God is not the Bible.

post ftw

 

[Nadiine]

Actually, I'm quite certain you believe God changes. What effectiveness would prayer have if God never changed?

At any rate, God is not the Bible.

??
How does prayer prove GOD changes???
Prayer proves God works in many ways. Not that He Himself changes.
His attributes and His purposes. Change of method isn't change
of self.

If you wanted to make a case for God changing, you'de need to
prove God stops working thru means of prayer altogether.
(which you can't prove becuz He does work thru prayer still today).

& if He DID change, that should make everyone worry becuz He
then doesn't have to keep any of His word or promises and doesn't
have to do anything for us anymore.

 

[Nadiine]

So, how much intimacy should be allow in a relationship? Some think that kissing someone your not married to, even though your in a relationship, is sexually immorally. Some think that its ok to do everything minus the actual act of intercourse.

Thoughts? Opinions? Arguments for either side?

*back to topic*

If lust in the mind constitutes the sin of adultery as Jesus stated, then it all depends on what goes on in a person's mind at each "base" they get to.

Since the bible doesn't specify how far a person can go (outside of the
sex acts themselves), it's up to us to analyze our thoughts & desires for the other person & act accordingly.

I think James puts it best becuz it's so simple & covers all
sin for each person privately where specifics aren't taught
(ie. Christian liberties):

James 4:17


Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it,
to him it is sin.

 

[Tissue]

??
How does prayer prove GOD changes???
Prayer proves God works in many ways. Not that He Himself changes.
His attributes and His purposes. Change of method isn't change
of self.

To say God's mind changes is to say, in a way, that he changes.

If you don't like that terminology, then you might say that God can be influenced.

 

[homewardbound]

To say God's mind changes is to say, in a way, that he changes.

If you don't like that terminology, then you might say that God can be influenced.

God doesn't change. People do. God sees everything past, present, and future as a whole. The OT has examples of God "apparently" being influenced by prayer (see Exodus 32, for one). But I don't see that being the case. He simply gives the prescribed response when the person appealing to him comes in prayer with a "right" heart.

Saying that God changes his mind opens the door to claiming that he doesn't really know all things. Imagine this....if God changes his mind, what would you say to someone who claimed that he might reconsider the awesome gift of grace he gave us on the cross?

 

[Tissue]

God doesn't change. People do. God sees everything past, present, and future as a whole. The OT has examples of God "apparently" being influenced by prayer (see Exodus 32, for one). But I don't see that being the case. He simply gives the prescribed response when the person appealing to him comes in prayer with a "right" heart.

Either prayer influences him, or it doesn't. If it doesn't, then phooey on that. If it does, then it does.

'Prescribed response' is just a fancy way of saying: "Because someone prays, God does something different." That's a change of mind.

Saying that God changes his mind opens the door to claiming that he doesn't really know all things. Imagine this....if God changes his mind, what would you say to someone who claimed that he might reconsider the awesome gift of grace he gave us on the cross?

Not sure what that example has to do with God's omniscience.

We're talking about prayer here. Who would pray for God to reconsider? Why would God do it? God answers prayer because of love. God died on the cross because of love. The example doesn't provide a problem.

 

[chingchang]

whoring? making out with a partner isnt whoring.

Ha! They are funny...aren't they? You should know better that to ask a question like the one you originally posted! One might think you're lookin' to get the Fundies all whipped-up in a frenzy. No need to get them all-riled-up...that isn't good for their "peace".

I feel that some of the things stated in the bible were really fashions of the time, culture of that date etc

Yes and no. One needs to study the Bible and the culture history of the time to arrive at a right understanding. The goal of that undertaking should be to aquire the mind of God on all matters sexual.

All that said...to answer your original question..."how far...?"; I would say that love needs to be at the forefront of that decision-making process and one must consider the possible negative results of going "too-far"...disease...unwanted pregnancy...break-up with crushed-emotions...etc. Hebrews 13:4 tells us that the "marriage bed" (married-folk's sex life) is undefiled (not a problem with God). My advice is to get married and have fun!

Good-on-ya!
CC

 

[Texas Lynn]

That's not what the Bible says. God does not change.

He did for Abraham on the issue of Sodom and Gomorrah, or so Genesis says, if you believe that stuff.

 

[Texas Lynn]

??
How does prayer prove GOD changes???
Prayer proves God works in many ways. Not that He Himself changes.
His attributes and His purposes. Change of method isn't change
of self.

If you wanted to make a case for God changing, you'de need to
prove God stops working thru means of prayer altogether.
(which you can't prove becuz He does work thru prayer still today).

& if He DID change, that should make everyone worry becuz He
then doesn't have to keep any of His word or promises and doesn't
have to do anything for us anymore.

Oh, really? If so, who would enforce it? Quis custodiet ipsos custodet?

 

[Thaeoles]

He did for Abraham on the issue of Sodom and Gomorrah, or so Genesis says, if you believe that stuff.

He still destroyed the cities. God's character does not change.

 

[Nadiine]

Oh, really? If so, who would enforce it? Quis custodiet ipsos custodet?

psssssssst, I speak English

Why does anybody have to be able to enforce it? People would just have nothing to place full trust in or hope in for that matter.
What can you do when God decides not to do anything for you?
Nothing - you're at His utter mercy (which we all are anyways).

 

[Nadiine]

He did for Abraham on the issue of Sodom and Gomorrah, or so Genesis says, if you believe that stuff.

If anyone bothered to do any study on God not changing, we see
METHODS change - He uses different means and makes different
decisions...
but they're ALL based on who God is which never changes.

He will never sin, He will never be evil, He will always be love,
He will always fulfill His promises, He'll always be merciful (albeit
not merciful to every soul), just, holy, perfect and righteous and all His actions and principles are based on those attributes He has.

Changing methods is not changing yourself.

 

[Tissue]

He still destroyed the cities. God's character does not change.

I affirm this.

 

[Texas Lynn]

He still destroyed the cities. God's character does not change.

If the Old Testament were literally true he is certainly the most evil character therein.

 

[Texas Lynn]

psssssssst, I speak English

Hoamskuled?

Why does anybody have to be able to enforce it? People would just have nothing to place full trust in or hope in for that matter.

If it were true what fundamentalists say about "god" he would be entirely unworthy of same.

What can you do when God decides not to do anything for you?
Nothing - you're at His utter mercy (which we all are anyways).

Or, you could, like American right-wing Christian groups do, just make stuff up....throw everything to the wall and see what sticks.

 

[Texas Lynn]

If anyone bothered to do any study on God not changing, we see
METHODS change - He uses different means and makes different
decisions...
but they're ALL based on who God is which never changes.

He will never sin, He will never be evil, He will always be love,
He will always fulfill His promises, He'll always be merciful (albeit
not merciful to every soul), just, holy, perfect and righteous and all His actions and principles are based on those attributes He has.

Changing methods is not changing yourself.

Such a false "god" is more properly labeled a monster.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I affirm this.

Saw it, did you?

 

[&Abel]

what was being said earlier in the thread about men and being aroused is certainly true for me

there are times when all I gotta do is walk past a girl who is projecting sex and I find myself getting aroused

of course I try my best to suppress the feelings and think of other things

and yes sex is a conscious decision but when your tempted your decision making process becomes cloudy

your basically leading yourself into temptation

I would consider even making out before marriage to be a "type" of sexual immorality

 

[&Abel]

huggin is a ok though(I guess it depends on whats going through your mind and intentions though)

I could see even a hugg going to inappropriate levels

 

[david_x]

...I believe asking that question is a way to avoid the reality.