Intimacy

[Zecryphon]

I think it's OK to do everything up to and including the act of intercourse.

I've said it once and I'll say it again... I'm happy that I had lots of sex before I got married, and happy my husband did too. I did not want to be a virgin bride and I wouldn't have married a man who was a virgin.

Why not? It would seem to me, given the statements that you've made, you would like someone who knows NOTHING about pleasing a woman and you could therefore teach them the proper way to go about it, instead of having to undo all the wrong teaching they've had in the past.

 

[Nadiine]

I'd rather be with somebody who knows SOMETHING about pleasing a woman, so we have a framework to work off of, as opposed to having to teach somebody from the ground up how to be a good lover. If I wanted to marry somebody who knew nothing about pleasing a woman, I'd marry a virgin.

In the end, I'd rather marry somebody I know completely, inside and out, and not leave something like sex to be a variable that we hope just works out. I don't believe in being that irresponsible about marriage... It's something I take very seriously.

*reminding myself that this is a Christian forum.


I cannot believe what I read here

Just TRY OUT your boyfriend first. God will have the last word on this.
Sadly this is the worlds answer to love, it's not at all what God teaches.

but who cares about that anymore

 

[Zecryphon]

Why? Sometimes people need to be reminded that their brand of Christianity is not shared by all Christians. That even Christians have different philosophies from other Christians. Why should you be incredulous that a Christian has different view than you? It's called Christianity, after Jesus Christ, not Nadiineity, after you.



Yes, GOD. Not you. Really, it's none of your business. Christianity, remember... Not Nadiineity. Your approval not needed or required.

And by the way, God isn't a dog you sick on people who do things you don't like... So making an assumption about what somebody is saying, then threatening to send God on somebody because you don't like the conclusion you jumped to is not Christian. It might be consistent with Nadiineity, but not Christianity.

Christianity already has a martyr. No need to make yourself one because you feel nobody lives up to the standard you feel they should. Again, maybe you're the Nadiinety martyr, but in terms of Christianity, placing yourself on the cross... Not needed. So knock it off. It's pretty selfish and high-handed of you to assume that people who have premarital sex don't care about God. If they do or not you don't know... It's something you're totally ignorant of. So acting like God calls you every night and says "Have you heard about Tropi? Oh my Me, she had premarital sex 4 years ago... She like totally hates me, I just know it. She like totally just doesn't get me, or whatever. You should totally talk to her." is unnecessary, and it elevates you to a level of self-importance you don't really need or deserve since, after all, you're a sinner like the rest of us, inspite of your attempts to get us to believe otherwise.

I don't think Nadiine did sick God on you. She just said that what you say differs from what God has said on the subject. If anyone is incredulous around here it's you, not her.

 

[Zecryphon]

What I say on the subject differs from what she says on the subject, not God. Unless she was appointed to a position I'm not aware of, we shouldn't act as if defying Nadiine and one of her many opinions is the same as defying God.

And last I checked, God hasn't weighed in with anybody but me on the subject of my sex life. Not even the great and wise Nadiine knows what God's plan for me is. Obviously, part of God's plan for people does include premarital sex, so calling premarital sex something that's against God's will and a sign of not loving God is not only inaccurate, it assumes that people know better than God.

What you say differs from what God has said in His written word, the Bible. You said this: I think it's OK to do everything up to and including the act of intercourse.

God's plan for sexual relations is the same for everybody. It doesn't differ from person to person. I had premarital sex too and I did it when I was a "born again" Christian. Really I was a false convert. That's a statement of truth about me and has nothing to do with you and it is not a judgment against you, so please don't take it as such. God has made it clear in His written word how He feels about sexual immorality, which premarital sex definitely would be, since it violates the model of the first marriage we see in scripture in Eden.

Gen 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Gen 2:25 And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

1Co 7:1 Now concerning the matters about which you wrote: "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman."
1Co 7:2 But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.

Act 15:19 Therefore my judgment is that we should not trouble those of the Gentiles who turn to God,
Act 15:20 but should write to them to abstain from the things polluted by idols, and from sexual immorality, and from what has been strangled, and from blood.

1 Cor 6:13 "Food is meant for the stomach and the stomach for food"--and God will destroy both one and the other. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.

1 Cor 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.

2 Cor 12:21 I fear that when I come again my God may humble me before you, and I may have to mourn over many of those who sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and sensuality that they have practiced.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
Gal 5:21 envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph 5:3 But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints.

Col 3:5 Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.
Col 3:6 On account of these the wrath of God is coming.
Col 3:7 In these you too once walked, when you were living in them.
Col 3:8 But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.
Col 3:9 Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices
Col 3:10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator.
Col 3:11 Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all.
Col 3:12 Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassion, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience,
Col 3:13 bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.
Col 3:14 And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony.

1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;
1Th 4:4 that each one of you know how to control his own body in holiness and honor,
1Th 4:5 not in the passion of lust like the Gentiles who do not know God;
1Th 4:6 that no one transgress and wrong his brother in this matter, because the Lord is an avenger in all these things, as we told you beforehand and solemnly warned you.
1Th 4:7 For God has not called us for impurity, but in holiness.
1Th 4:8 Therefore whoever disregards this, disregards not man but God, who gives his Holy Spirit to you.

Jud 1:7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities, which likewise indulged in sexual immorality and pursued unnatural desire, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.

As for what authority God's written word has, it is declared here.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

All Nadiine has done is reiterate what God's written word says. She has not elevated herself to a position of authority over you. She has not martyred herself or established a new religion in her name. It is YOU who has done that to her.

 

[Nadiine]

What I say on the subject differs from what she says on the subject, not God. Unless she was appointed to a position I'm not aware of, we shouldn't act as if defying Nadiine and one of her many opinions is the same as defying God.

And last I checked, God hasn't weighed in with anybody but me on the subject of my sex life. Not even the great and wise Nadiine knows what God's plan for me is. Obviously, part of God's plan for people does include premarital sex, so calling premarital sex something that's against God's will and a sign of not loving God is not only inaccurate, it assumes that people know better than God.

Which God are you talking about?

I'm certainly not referring to the one you seem to be.
Paul is very clear on sex before marriage (incl. lust.)

1 Thessalonians 4:3-6
3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality;
4 that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor,
5 not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God;


1 Corinthians 7:2
Nevertheless, because of sexual immorality,
let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.

Ephesians 5:5
For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

You're to marry instead of fulfilling carnality - one of the fruits of God's
own Spirit is SELF CONTROL.
One who has none should examine if they're a child of God.

We don't "try people out" like their some item at a store to see if
we want to commit to them.
"gosh, he's not so great in the sack, I think I'll skip anything
more permanent".
Good grief, sounds like you're trying a person out for a test drive.
Can you even see how debasing this sounds?

 

[Nadiine]

Really? So everybody who gives birth to a child out of wedlock is giving birth to a child God didn't have control in creating? Had no influence in allowing to be concieved? That child is against God's plan? Against God's will? Children born as the result of sex outside of marriage shouldn't exist and are an affront to God? And as a result, any of the children they create are against God and shouldn't exist because at least one of their parents were never supposed to be born?

and here we go with the strawmen

This has ZERO to do with something being sin. ALOT of people enjoy
things that come from sin.

God only said the wages of that sin is death (eternal condemnation).
Sin causes consequences and good things can still come from sin -
it doesn't change what sin is and results in.

 

[Markus6]

Really? So everybody who gives birth to a child out of wedlock is giving birth to a child God didn't have control in creating? Had no influence in allowing to be concieved? That child is against God's plan? Against God's will? Children born as the result of sex outside of marriage shouldn't exist and are an affront to God? And as a result, any of the children they create are against God and shouldn't exist because at least one of their parents were never supposed to be born?

If we were to believe premarital sex is never part of God's plan for our lives, we'd have to believe all babies born outside of wedlock are abominations. The girl I work with, who's 8 months pregnant and unmarried, is carrying a baby not of God. When that baby is grown and having babies of his own, all of his children should not have existed because he shouldn't have existed. Why? Because their grandmother had sex outside of marriage and her child was never supposed to be and never part of God's plan.

In order to believe that premarital sex isn't part of God's plan for some people, you'd have to believe the results of premarital sex happen outside of God's influence and are beyond God's control. If that were true, God wouldn't be God, would he? It would mean entire lines of people exist who shouldn't exist because it wasn't God's will they be created.

You have a particular view of God's sovereignty and human responsibility that I do not share. Of course a child born out of wedlock is formed by God is a part of his plan and may become a child of his through faith in Jesus. That does not mean that pre-marital sex is what God wants for us. A child can be made from a payed union with a prostitute, that child is part of God's plan but that doesn't mean that prostitution is.

Ah. Another follower of the "do as I say, not as I do" brigade. Premarital sex was justified when you were doing it, but now that you're married and it's no longer something you have to contend with, you were wrong, you are deeply sorry, and nobody else should do what you did. Considering over 97% of people had premarital sex before they themselves got married, you're not alone on this one.

Every Christian is part of the "do as I say, not as I do" brigade, or more accurately the, "do as he says (God's law) and he did (Jesus' example) not as I do" brigade. However, I am a virgin and have not had premarital sex. Is my opinion now more valid?

Gen 2:24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
Gen 2:25 And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

Another verse which I think complements that one nicely is:

15Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be!
16Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, "THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH."

Sex and marriage are inextricably combined in the bible. Sex turns two people into one flesh.

 

[Markus6]

If the child is a part of God's plan, that means the sex was too. The child can only be born as the result of the sex. It's not like children just suddenly appear. If it's part of God's plan for you to have a baby while you're unmarried, obviously that means it's part of God's plan for you to have sex while unmarried. There's no other way for an unmarried person to give birth to a baby without the sex.

God appointed natural laws to govern the earth. That sex produces babies is one of those laws. Human's can abuse those laws, God doesn't suddenly suspend the laws of nature because we disobey him. All babies are part of God's plan, they carry his image and were formed by him. That does not mean every type of sex that produces a baby is justified. I already mentioned prostitution and you dodged that one, what about rape? Rape can produce children are you saying those children are NOT part of God's plan or rape IS part of God's plan?

That passage isn't about sex and marriage... It's about sex and prostitutes. And saying that having sex with a prostitute makes you one in the flesh, that's just common sense learned in basic biology. However, it's not this statement that sex outside of marriage is immoral, just that sex with a prostitute isn't the smartest use of one's time, nor is it the safest thing you can do.

That's not common sense learned in basic biology. The people are literally two fleshes. It is imagery, and the same imagery found in Genesis.

16Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, "THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH."

Paul explains why the person and the prostitute become one flesh. It isn't because she's a prostitute and therefore dirty. It's because of the rule found in Genesis. The verse isn't saying to avoid joining yourself to people. It's just saying to watch WHO you join yourself to. You can join yourself to a person of God by marrying them and consecrating that marriage or to a prostitute with a one of "meaningless" experience. Anyway, if you have a child with the prostitute surely sex with her was part of God's plan, right?

 

[david_x]

YOu can love god and do whatever you want. Relationship indicates whating to do what he wants us to

Love is needed before a relationship, and if you love God with all your heart and think you can still do whatever you want you may be missing something.

 

[david_x]

How can you love God or even know God if God has not called you to Himself?

Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

How can you know God if you have not responded to this call from God and have not followed Christ's command to repent as given in Luke 13:1-5?

Luk 13:1 There were some present at that very time who told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
Luk 13:2 And he answered them, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered in this way?
Luk 13:3 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them: do you think that they were worse offenders than all the others who lived in Jerusalem?
Luk 13:5 No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

That all has to do with loving God.

 

[elephunky]

How should people go about promoting Christ or better yet, spreading the gospel message?

With love, with compassion, with respect and with an understanding of what they might be thinking. Give them honey and they are more likely to come back, give them vinegar and they will think you a ignorant and insane.

dGirl, do you realize that most 'street preaching' isn't YELLING at all?
They're proclaiming gospel. Where do you see these people
doing this "yelling"??
This is a stereotype you have that isn't even accurate.
I venture to say you're just parroting it like the rest of the people
who attack w/ this same false accusation.

Most importantly, where did Jesus teach? He was out and about
giving the gospel. He didn't sit inside His little temple & preach
quietly, hoping not to offend people.

He was OUT doing the work of God - preaching everywhere in
public - He had a crowd of over 5000 outside as He preached.

People truly have to dump their false stereotyping that goes on.
& if you want to include the hater groups like Phelp's, then stop
attaching them with mainstream Christianity - those little fragments of groups are fringe cults.

I wasnt talking about street preaching, I was actually referring to people who actually stand in the city and yell at the top of their lungs.

I think it's OK to do everything up to and including the act of intercourse.

I've said it once and I'll say it again... I'm happy that I had lots of sex before I got married, and happy my husband did too. I did not want to be a virgin bride and I wouldn't have married a man who was a virgin.

Thanks for your post!

 

[elephunky]

Oh and BTW nadine, its people like phelps that stick in peoples minds when they think of christians

 

[one11]

Oh and BTW nadine, its people like phelps that stick in peoples minds when they think of christians

That's silly because isn't that like saying people think of Hilter when they think of Germans?

Or of Bloody Mary when they think of Catholics.

It's something deeper when people don't want to hear the word. I know. I was in rebellion for years because I wanted to fit in, even though I didn't do drugs, drink, nor did I WANT sex outside of marriage. I was just doing it because everyone else was doing it and so I wanted to be not a square in some ways. So I chose sex but still kept away from drugs and drinking. I didn't drink until I was 30. Got involved with drugs for about two months because my bf at that time was selling it out of my Mom's house. I stopped the drugs because they were interfering with my work, and he got kicked out of the house by me once it was discovered he was selling drugs out of my Mom's house! I started drinking AFTER a very serious car accident I was in which took my productivity away and all the benign fun things that people do, like going to an asumentment park or riding a horse or a bicycle, and that list could go on and on.

Just sharing my story because the world wants us to be like them or else we are ostracized and called "no fun".

 

[elephunky]

You can live in denial about it, or you can accept the facts.

When people think of that particular war, they think hitler.

 

[elephunky]

My opinions and they way I feel and think about things has nothing to do with the world, its purely coming from myself without the feeling to "fit in" etc. I have never sought to fit in. I am who I am and I like who I am.

 

[david_x]

YOu can love god and do whatever you want. Relationship indicates whating to do what he wants us to

Love is needed before a relationship, and if you love God with all your heart and think you can still do whatever you want you may be missing something.

 

[elephunky]

You can love someone without having a relationship with them. Relationship is being bound to them, having to consider them in your actions.

 

[one11]

My opinions and they way I feel and think about things has nothing to do with the world, its purely coming from myself without the feeling to "fit in" etc. I have never sought to fit in. I am who I am and I like who I am.

Then where did you form your opinions? And what are you doing to edify the church? Do you ever think about edifying the church? And how do you edify Christ?

 

[elephunky]

I dont know what you mean about edify. If you mean change the opinions of others then I dont do that because I think taht people need to come to their own conclusions and follow their own faith. But I did go to church and I wetn to a Christian school and this is how i feel about things, these are my honest opinions.

As i said in another thread...perhaps im too much of a hippie to be a christian.

 

[one11]

I dont know what you mean about edify. If you mean change the opinions of others then I dont do that because I think taht people need to come to their own conclusions and follow their own faith. But I did go to church and I wetn to a Christian school and this is how i feel about things, these are my honest opinions.

As i said in another thread...perhaps im too much of a hippie to be a christian.

Well, I was a real So. California hippie. It didn't stop me from thinking I could be a Christian. To me a hippie meant we were against war and we had a real unjust war to protest against. It was about peace but not necessarily Christian or non Christian related, and I liked the clothes and the music. A lot of the hippie music was Christian oriented. Ever heard of King Crimson or the song by the Byrds "Turn, Turn, Turn"? That song is taken from the book of Ecclesiastes.

So what are you a hippie about?

What are the new hippies?