Intimacy

[one11]

I dispute that "God" established sexual and marriage customs.

Well, your church seems to believe otherwise. So how do you reconcile the two?

http://www.umc.org/site/c.lwL4KnN1LtH/b.2294683/k.B1A4/Church_and_Society.htm

We affirm the family and work to strengthen its relationships. We affirm the sanctity of marriage and shared fidelity between a man and a woman. We recognize divorce as regrettable and intend to minister to the members of divorced families. We affirm the integrity of single persons. We recognize that sexuality is a good gift of God and that sex between a man and woman is only to be clearly affirmed in the marriage bond. We recognize the tragic conflicts of life with life that may justify abortion and urge prayerful consideration by all parties involved. We assert the right of every person to die with dignity.

 

[emilylauren]

They make the assumption the stories are literally true in their analysis.

And you make the equally erronous assumption that the stories are literally note true. From the context of your posts, although I easily could have mis-read you, you seemed to discount the literal interpretation of these texts on the grounds that it makes God some sort of angry monster that you wish to have nothing to do with. I, therefore, provided you with an article that refutes this assumption and shows that one can reconcile the idea of a loving Old Testament God with the idea that what is written did indeed literally happen.

The question then becomes, why don't you agree that the Bible is literally true? Is it because of the possibility of man-made error? Quite frankly, while we may not have any of the original drafts of the Bible it is considered to be the most 'accurate' ancient text. There are over 20,000 copies of the New Testament (over 5000 in the original greek) and within each only very minor errors, like a tense change here or there, are found. Compared to Homer's Illiad (second 'most accurate' acient text) with a little over 600 copies and a much larger discrepency among the texts. That there are more copies yet less errors in the Bible seems to speak loudly here.

Any other reason for rejecting the Bible's validity would simply be because its teachings don't fit with your already conceived worldview and idea of what God and Jesus "should be".

 

[MarkSB]

Its a huge obstacle in my faith. Ive been there, ive done that so it doesnt seem like such a huge deal to me. Sex wasnt this amazing experience that it was made out to be. It was an extra activity that was a whole lot of fun and bonding.

Im struggling to find a logical reason behind why i should abstain considering ive already done it. It no longer has the same meaning to me as it would to someone who is saving it.

Well, in it's most basic sense the reason to abstain is your faith and love for God. Scripture says that our bodies belong to Him now and so should be treated accordingly.

It is more difficult to abstain once purity has been lost. But this doesn't mean you have nothing left to loose. Every time we are intimate with somebody, we kind of give a part of ourselves to them. A spiritual connection is forged, and it really sucks when you make that connection and then find out that person isn't who you thought they were, that they don't really care about you and aren't committed to you. (or you to the other person)

IMO, heavy making out isn't good because you're still trying to make a connection through physical, and that tends to interfere with trying to make a connection on a more personal level and in a way that shows mutual respect.

 

[Tissue]

Well, in it's most basic sense the reason to abstain is your faith and love for God. Scripture says that our bodies belong to Him now and so should be treated accordingly.

With the assumption that sexuality is bad (at least, in certain contexts).

Some see that Scripture is quite clear on this, and speak of abstinence until marriage. Others say that Scripture spoke to a particular culture, and speak of, to varying extents, an embrace of their sexuality.

 

[Texas Lynn]

So according to this statement:

1) How do you know Yeshua Messiah is true?

2) Should we do away with all ancient studies including archaeology and get rid of history in schools too because we weren't there so all history could be assumptions then?

3) Is the History Channel all based upon assumptions, and the people currently living in the Middle East today who claim to be direct descendants of Abraham are liars then? And if you believe they are liars, can you prove it, and prove it even with knowing how meticulous they are in keeping exact lineages?

Everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Well, your church seems to believe otherwise. So how do you reconcile the two?

http://www.umc.org/site/c.lwL4KnN1LtH/b.2294683/k.B1A4/Church_and_Society.htm

We affirm the family and work to strengthen its relationships. We affirm the sanctity of marriage and shared fidelity between a man and a woman. We recognize divorce as regrettable and intend to minister to the members of divorced families. We affirm the integrity of single persons. We recognize that sexuality is a good gift of God and that sex between a man and woman is only to be clearly affirmed in the marriage bond. We recognize the tragic conflicts of life with life that may justify abortion and urge prayerful consideration by all parties involved. We assert the right of every person to die with dignity.

There's a substantial movement to change that wording.

 

[Texas Lynn]

why don't you agree that the Bible is literally true?

Most Christians don't and those that say they do are highly selective about the parts they do believe thus.

 

[david_x]

I believe every part of the Bible is true.

 

[elephunky]

Why does every thread here turn into a debate about something completely unrelated to the original topic?

 

[Thaeoles]

Why does every thread here turn into a debate about something completely unrelated to the original topic?

Because Equine Cadavers are too much fun to thrash thereupon with clubs.
And heretics must be rebuked.

 

[YourChild]

So, how much intimacy should be allow in a relationship? Some think that kissing someone your not married to, even though your in a relationship, is sexually immorally. Some think that its ok to do everything minus the actual act of intercourse.

Thoughts? Opinions? Arguments for either side?

Are you serious? I try to not let a woman's (who is fully clothed) buttocks or chest get in the way of my view. If it does, I am disturbed on the inside. and someone is thinking about doing everything except intercourse??? Whoooaaaaaa!

 

[elephunky]

lol

 

[UnderHisWings1979]

Are you serious? I try to not let a woman's (who is fully clothed) buttocks or chest get in the way of my view. If it does, I am disturbed on the inside. and someone is thinking about doing everything except intercourse??? Whoooaaaaaa!

I hear you, man. My wife and I waited until we were engaged to even kiss. As hard as it was, we were both so glad we did in the end. It's definitely worth the wait.

I should note that this is coming from someone who did not always practice abstinence, so I know how hard it can be. I definitely wish I had saved myself. And I also know that those who have not can still make a meaningful commitment to save themselves from this day forward.

 

[YourChild]

I dont know if people who comitt to live in abstinence are struggling with it. I'm just living my life like I am andI'm not having any struggle at all with sexual drives etc etc. God's grace has truly empowered me to do this. I feel like an ex smoker who never knew how to smoke. Dont get me wrong, I know I'll make a great husband. I'm just not all caught up in that girl guy thing right now. There's greater things at hand....

 

[Nadiine]

I dont know if people who comitt to live in abstinence are struggling with it. I'm just living my life like I am andI'm not having any struggle at all with sexual drives etc etc. God's grace has truly empowered me to do this. I feel like an ex smoker who never knew how to smoke. Dont get me wrong, I know I'll make a great husband. I'm just not all caught up in that girl guy thing right now. There's greater things at hand....

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh this is SO refreshing to read!!!

Honestly, our culture just worships sex like it's the "end all" of everything.
You just GOTTTTTTTTTTA have it or else you'll die!
I think in this area people drink the koolaid too - as the media pumps out
more & more sex...

I lived with this on my mind nearly all my growing up & I admit, it was
absolutely tiring to chase it down & have a 'love life'.
What I'd give today to change that if I could & have all that wasted
time back... & wasted emotion & pain.

 

[Nadiine]

Why does every thread here turn into a debate about something completely unrelated to the original topic?

I don't believe that discussion on belief of God's word (scripture)
is unrelated to our morality in the least.
Yes threads go off topic alot (one thing leads to another alot of
times & sometimes other things that do relate should be
explored) . .

In this topic, those who don't base morality on God's word end up accepting all kinds of immoral activity. I see it every single day anymore
by people who profess to be Christians.

Without a standard or guideline to base morality on (the bible),
morality is simply relative to each person & each person does what they think is ok in their own mind.
That isn't Christianity tho (no matter who wants to morph it into
their own religious design).

So the previous topic on scripture authority does apply in this subject
imho. (being that it's supposed to be a Christian forum).

 

[Tissue]

'Sex is like air. It's no big deal unless you're not getting any.'

I always love how, with the rare exception of that individual blessed (or, perhaps, cursed) by genetics, every person I've ever heard who has extolled the ease with which abstinence is practiced is married.

 

[one11]

Are you serious? I try to not let a woman's (who is fully clothed) buttocks or chest get in the way of my view. If it does, I am disturbed on the inside. and someone is thinking about doing everything except intercourse??? Whoooaaaaaa!

I think Matthew 5 is referring to men who are ALREADY married because you can't commit adultery unless you or the other person is married. If this verse were for all the time and even to unmarried people, it would say you have commited fornication in your heart, not adultery. So, I think a lot of people need to go easier on themselves and put this scripture into the right context. It is impossible not to lust ever for most people in their sexual years, but once you are married you are really called to ignore ALL other women because this passage goes along with "you shall not covet thy neighbors wife..."

Matthew 5:27-28

27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

 

[chingchang]

I think Matthew 5 is referring to men who are ALREADY married because you can't commit adultery unless you or the other person is married. If this verse were for all the time and even to unmarried people, it would say you have commited fornication in your heart, not adultery. So, I think a lot of people need to go easier on themselves and put this scripture into the right context. It is impossible not to lust ever for most people in their sexual years, but once you are married you are really called to ignore ALL other women because this passage goes along with "you shall not covet thy neighbors wife..."

Matthew 5:27-28

27Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Yup. Lust in-and-of-itself isn't a bad thing (or a good thing). If lust leads to coveting...then adultery...guess what? BTW...the lust we're talking about here is not sexual attraction...that is a normal biological function that we have whether or not we want it. The lust we're talking about here is desperately wanting something that belongs to someone else (coveting)...which is an obvious violation of the law. God commands us to respect each-other's property rights. However...if you operate out of the "royal law" of love...you'll never have to be told not to do that because you know that there is no love in taking what does not belong to you...or even thinking about taking what does not belong to you.

IMHO,
CC

 

[Texas Lynn]

Why does every thread here turn into a debate about something completely unrelated to the original topic?

Power and control is maintained and exercised through people buying into the system and they do this through memes.