Whom do you serve?

[Meowzltov]

Whom do you serve?

The answer to that question cannot be found in what people say. Words are cheap, and emotions are fickle. There are serial killers that are baptised BELIEVERS in Jesus. The only way to know whom someone serves is to watch their behavior. If they serve God, they will be kind, compassionate, and just.

As a Jew, this is a no brainer for me. But if I give you the Jewish reasoning, it's going to go in one ear and out the other for most of you. So allow me to present the case made by your fellow Christians. Just a reminder, NO, I am not a Messianic Jew. I'm just your friendly neighborhood Spider-Jew.

There is only one place in your gospels where someone directly asks, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” And Jesus tells him THE COMMANDMENTS. (Luke 18:18) Not faith. Not belief. Not a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Not baptism. BEHAVIOR.

In the parable of the sheep and the goats (Matthew 25:31-46) as you know, the sheep go to heaven and the goats go to hell. What was the difference? It wasn't their faith. It wasn't their beliefs. It wasn't having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. It wasn't baptism. The ONLY difference between the sheep and the goats, as Keith Green pointed out, is what they DID... and DIDN'T... DO.

Of all the books in your NT, James is the most Jewish. Even as a Jew, I have enormous respect for when he says,
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?

Are any of you familiar with CS Lewis and his Narnia Chronicles? The last book in the series is called The Last Battle. In this story, the Calormen nation worships a demon named Tash. A particularly brave and loyal Calorman soldier finds himself in heaven. His mind is cleared and he realizes that Tash is a demon and the lion Aslan is God. This makes him confused to find himself in heaven. He asks Aslan how this can be since he served Tash all his life. But Aslan DISAGREES and states that nothing good can be done for Tash, just as nothing evil can be done for Aslan. All the good he had done in his life, he may have believed it was for Tash, but it served Aslan.

I can think of no better summary of my point than that.

I'm going to end with a word about a word, a Hebrew work: EMUNAH. EMUNAH means BOTH faith and faithfulness. It makes it impossible to accurately translate into English because our Christian culture pulls the two apart. In the Hebrew mind, they are the same thing. You don't go around asking a fellow Israelite if they believe in God. You look to see if they obey the commandments. THAT tells you everything you need to know about their beliefs without anyone speaking even one word.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Whom do you serve?

The answer to that question cannot be found in what people say. Words are cheap, and emotions are fickle. There are serial killers that are baptised BELIEVERS in Jesus. The only way to know whom someone serves is to watch their behavior. If they serve God, they will be kind, compassionate, and just.

As a Jew, this is a no brainer for me. But if I give you the Jewish reasoning, it's going to go in one ear and out the other for most of you. So allow me to present the case made by your fellow Christians. Just a reminder, NO, I am not a Messianic Jew. I'm just your friendly neighborhood Spider-Jew.

There is only one place in your gospels where someone directly asks, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” And Jesus tells him THE COMMANDMENTS. (Luke 18:18) Not faith. Not belief. Not a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Not baptism. BEHAVIOR.

In the parable of the sheep and the goats (Matthew 25:31-46) as you know, the sheep go to heaven and the goats go to hell. What was the difference? It wasn't their faith. It wasn't their beliefs. It wasn't having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. It wasn't baptism. The ONLY difference between the sheep and the goats, as Keith Green pointed out, is what they DID... and DIDN'T... DO.

Of all the books in your NT, James is the most Jewish. Even as a Jew, I have enormous respect for when he says,
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?

Are any of you familiar with CS Lewis and his Narnia Chronicles? The last book in the series is called The Last Battle. In this story, the Calormen nation worships a demon named Tash. A particularly brave and loyal Calorman soldier finds himself in heaven. His mind is cleared and he realizes that Tash is a demon and the lion Aslan is God. This makes him confused to find himself in heaven. He asks Aslan how this can be since he served Tash all his life. But Aslan DISAGREES and states that nothing good can be done for Tash, just as nothing evil can be done for Aslan. All the good he had done in his life, he may have believed it was for Tash, but it served Aslan.

I can think of no better summary of my point than that.

I'm going to end with a word about a word, a Hebrew work: EMUNAH. EMUNAH means BOTH faith and faithfulness. It makes it impossible to accurately translate into English because our Christian culture pulls the two apart. In the Hebrew mind, they are the same thing. You don't go around asking a fellow Israelite if they believe in God. You look to see if they obey the commandments. THAT tells you everything you need to know about their beliefs without anyone speaking even one word.

I grew up in an Evangelical environment, and later in life became Lutheran. Which is what I am now.

There is something interesting I've observed. Both Evangelicals and Lutherans profess a strict "faith alone" position. But I've noticed that what is meant by "faith" isn't exactly the same. I'd contend that the "faith alone" which I grew up in meant something more like "belief alone", or more expansively: a person is saved on the basis of what they believe, i.e. believing the right things = salvation. That is, admittedly, still highly reductionist; but in the broad strokes I think that is an accurate statement. Whereas in the Lutheran tradition faith is better understood as trust.

This is, for example, why Lutherans have no trouble with the idea that even a newborn infant can have faith; we see even in nature that an infant has a bond of trust with his/her mother. We would see this as a kind of natural faith. The Lutheran tradition then follows this up by recognizing that while a person is justified through faith alone, yet the Christian life demands good works. Martin Luther, himself, conceived of the Christian life as consisting of two parts: how a person exists before God, and how a person exists before the world--in the framework of "two kinds of righteousness". So if a person says they have faith in Christ, but hates their neighbor, they are--in some sense--lying about their faith. Luther would argue, quite strongly, that faith and mortal sin cannot co-exist; by which he meant that if I say I have faith but deliberately dwell in my sin without remorse or repentance of any kind, I am actively destroying and shipwrecking my faith.

A person isn't saved because they believe the right things.
Neither is a person saved because they do the right things.
Rather a person is saved because God meets us in mercy, in Jesus, and actively creates out of the old man a new man, born again, with faith, and in a new state of obedience borne out of a new kind of heart--a heart that receives the things of God, and therefore comes to learn and desire the will and things of God. But what is considered essential is the distinction between cause and effect; the cause is God's grace, the effect is a renewed human life that grows in the likeness of God revealed in Jesus.

For us this is tremendously important: because a person who tries to claim they have said, thought, believed, or done the right things and therefore they have earned their place with God is a person who boasts in themselves, and who actually is living in sin against God. But a person who says, I offer nothing, but receive everything from God, am now nothing but a servant who desires to serve and live according to God's will is one who abides in the will of God and actually does live out the commandment; not with boasting, but at the receiving end of grace.

Because there are considered to be two essential spiritual dangers: Despair and pride. For despair arises when a person, beholding their weakness and inability to follow in all the things of God, begins to find their faith choked by countless anxieties; and such a person may, in the end, say, "Since it is impossible for me to live right, why should I bother to try? I should instead eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow I die." While on the other end there is the person who does not recognize their weakness, but becomes drunk on their own imaged self-goodness, believing that they are better than the other sinners out there--"I tithe, I attend weekly services, I'm not a drunkard, or doing this or that and the other thing; truly I am a righteous person" such a person then will go through their life with a log in their eye but pointing out the speck in everyone else's, and here they choke out faith, and boast in their own fake goodness even as they commit countless sins but refuse to even admit that they are sinning.

In order that both things be destroyed--for both are products of the flesh--the flesh must be mortified and faith must be strengthened; so that when a person despairs, he is encouraged by the mercy of God; and when a person boasts, he is humbled by the judgments of God.

And thus a person grows to learn to walk by faith, and to (as the Prophet Micah spoke) do justice, love kindness, and walk humbly before God.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I think, perhaps, what I've said above is in some ways said too esoterically.

If I can offer a more concrete example of the things I'm saying.

Let's give several examples of people viz-a-viz feeding the hungry.

1) A person sees their neighbor is hungry, and they say, "Why should I feed my neighbor? I believe in Jesus, so I'm going to heaven." Such a person should, in fact, be regarded as a person without faith. This is not faith, this is callousness disguised as faith. And it is rotten.

2) A person sees their neighbor is hungry, and they say, "I know I should feed my neighbor, but I often fail, and because I often fail, I know I have sinned against God and my neighbor." This is, indeed, a right place to be--however without mercy, without Good News, it can choke out faith when a person is told to rely on their own ability, "I see my neighbor is hungry, but I fail, but since I fail and cannot succeed, perhaps I should stop trying?" And here faith is choked, this is a faith-killing despair because it is not alleviated with the affirmation of forgiveness, that indeed we fail, but God is merciful, and while we may not be perfect in this life, we are nevertheless continually called to live out the will of God.

3) A person sees their neighbor is hungry, and they say, "I have fed my neighbor now and then, behold I am a good person, consider that other sinner over there who does less than I have, I am indeed greater than they" Such a person is, in many ways, no better than the first person.

4) The ideal place to be is this: I see that my neighbor is hungry, and I should desire my neighbor to be fed--true and certain I will fail, for I am a sinner; and yet Christ died for sinners, and so I should trust that God is merciful to me, a sinner--and because God is merciful, may I learn to be merciful, though I should stumble a thousand times along the way. For faith should produce in me the desire for righteousness, and the reception of forgiveness so that in my inability and inadequacy, I am not destroyed but encouraged to keep stepping forward. I know there will be millions of mouths I cannot feed, and even the few I meet I may fail, nevertheless my hungry neighbor ought to be fed, so I ought to act; and where I have failed, may God be merciful (and He is merciful)--so may I lowly sinner that I am, receiving mercy, also become merciful--so that when I do encounter a hungry neighbor, I should act rightly. And so while I may stumble, fail, and never get it right; I do not despair to the point of giving up, nor become so arrogant as to cease to recognize mercy as mercy. For I stand not above my neighbor-sinners, but as one of them. And my neighbor-sinner is also the one I should feed and love and provide for.

For Lutheran Christians, this last place is considered the proper Christian disposition.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Whom do you serve?

No one. Why would I serve somebody?

The answer to that question cannot be found in what people say. Words are cheap, and emotions are fickle. There are serial killers that are baptised BELIEVERS in Jesus. The only way to know whom someone serves is to watch their behavior. If they serve God, they will be kind, compassionate, and just.

As a Jew, this is a no brainer for me. But if I give you the Jewish reasoning, it's going to go in one ear and out the other for most of you. So allow me to present the case made by your fellow Christians. Just a reminder, NO, I am not a Messianic Jew. I'm just your friendly neighborhood Spider-Jew.

There is only one place in your gospels where someone directly asks, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” And Jesus tells him THE COMMANDMENTS. (Luke 18:18) Not faith. Not belief. Not a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Not baptism. BEHAVIOR.

In the parable of the sheep and the goats (Matthew 25:31-46) as you know, the sheep go to heaven and the goats go to hell. What was the difference? It wasn't their faith. It wasn't their beliefs. It wasn't having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. It wasn't baptism. The ONLY difference between the sheep and the goats, as Keith Green pointed out, is what they DID... and DIDN'T... DO.

Of all the books in your NT, James is the most Jewish. Even as a Jew, I have enormous respect for when he says,
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds." Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?

Oh, religion, you want to talk about a god. Religions bore me.

Are any of you familiar with CS Lewis and his Narnia Chronicles?

Speaking of boring. We read a little of this in grade school. It was dull and never read any more of it.

The last book in the series is called The Last Battle. In this story, the Calormen nation worships a demon named Tash. A particularly brave and loyal Calorman soldier finds himself in heaven. His mind is cleared and he realizes that Tash is a demon and the lion Aslan is God. This makes him confused to find himself in heaven. He asks Aslan how this can be since he served Tash all his life. But Aslan DISAGREES and states that nothing good can be done for Tash, just as nothing evil can be done for Aslan. All the good he had done in his life, he may have believed it was for Tash, but it served Aslan.

It still sounds boring and dreadfully preachy. It's too bad JK Rowling was still in college at the time because her "Harry Potter" sounds like more interesting "kid lit".

I can think of no better summary of my point than that.

I'm going to end with a word about a word, a Hebrew work: EMUNAH. EMUNAH means BOTH faith and faithfulness. It makes it impossible to accurately translate into English because our Christian culture pulls the two apart. In the Hebrew mind, they are the same thing. You don't go around asking a fellow Israelite if they believe in God. You look to see if they obey the commandments. THAT tells you everything you need to know about their beliefs without anyone speaking even one word.

"It may be the devil or it may be the lord, but you've got to serve somebody." --Bob Dylan

Bob was never more wrong.

 

[Meowzltov]

I grew up in an Evangelical environment, and later in life became Lutheran. Which is what I am now.

I realize this is off topic, but since it's MY thread, I allow it. LOL

I'm wondering what you think of the Lutheran-Catholic JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION? Here is the English translation of it:

JOINT DECLARATION ON THE DOCTRINE OF JUSTIFICATION | EWTN

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