International Feminism

[Hieronymus]

That, my friend, is simply the truth. "The truth is like a lion; you don't have to defend it. Let it loose; it will defend itself."

Hmmm... It sounds rather like masculinism (as opposed to feminism) to me.
The possible irony in that is that it may be caused or at least fuelled by feminism..
And so it would be that feminism only causes more division...
The war of the sexes...
It is a sad thing...

 

[Zoii]

apparent need for an enemy and a victim status.

The apparent need for Victim Status? heck, when you're raped, that's how you feel. When you have your jaw broken thats how you feel - You are in fact what the police describe as 'A Victim'. Theres nothing apparent about it.

Apparent enemy?...No perpetrator and there's nothing apparent about that either. heck you know this so why the semantics

Are you talking to me? Or are you talking to your stereotype object of hate?

Not you specifically...those were terms levelled at me personally in this thread, or women who say they are feminists more generally. I dont expect anyone is noble enough to retract some of their words.

 

[Phil.Stein]

Hmmm... It sounds rather like masculinism (as opposed to feminism) to me.
The possible irony in that is that it may be caused or at least fuelled by feminism..
And so it would be that feminism only causes more division...
The war of the sexes...
It is a sad thing...

Do you really think voting is so important? I don't vote, and I'm a man.

As for women's work, do you really believe that large-scale women in the workforce has benefited anyone, least of all women? Now those women who want to stay home can't afford to, and those women who want to work get paid less.

 

[Zoii]

Nope. But the benefits of toxic feminism never outweighed the costs.

Do you honestly believe that giving women the vote really accomplished anything, other than sending Western nations down the tubes faster? More votes based on emotion, rather than reason, is not a rationale for a successful country.

Or do you believe allowing women to work enriched the nation? Nay, it impoverished families, and turned us all into slaves. Now women who still truly want to do true women's work - i.e. serving their husbands, and raising children - often find they are unable to afford it.

Toxic feminism is a root cause of all manner of evils - divorce, abused children, adultery, homosexuality, gender confusion, poverty, rape, suicide, debt, and outright nastiness. This toxin has done its job. Sadly, the organism still largely does not understand what poisoned it.

Nicely said Phil
You pretty much reinforced why I and my peers feel so threatened by men such as yourself.

 

[Phil.Stein]

Nicely said Phil
You pretty much reinforced why I and my peers feel so threatened by men such as yourself.

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering... Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny."

 

[Zoii]

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering... Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny."

Heck I dont need to add anything further Phil. You've pretty much spoken for the rest of the men here. I shall take on note how Christian men regard women. I'll leave you all to it. Thank you for being so overt

 

[Hieronymus]

Nicely said Phil
You pretty much reinforced why I and my peers feel so threatened by men such as yourself.

I told him that too...

 

[Hieronymus]

The apparent need for Victim Status? heck, when you're raped, that's how you feel. When you have your jaw broken thats how you feel - You are in fact what the police describe as 'A Victim'. Theres nothing apparent about it.

The object of your disgust should not be men, it should be the particular perpetrators.
I'm not violent, i'm not a rapist, and most men aren't.
You should be fighting injustice, not men in general, not masculinity.
And to be clear, i'm on your side when you fight injustice.
But it seems that's not enough.
I don't necessarily mean you, but the feminist movement thing.
You see what happens, and i think Phil could be anm example of what is happening.
Polarisation.
We see families lasting only 5 years.
We see women who are ashamed to admit they want to live a traditional life, as a mother and a house wife.
Motherhood and housewifehood is looked down upon by feminists, while it is in fact a very important part of a healthy society.

You should try to find out who and what is behind these things, that are pushed down our throats, or that have tempted women by appealing to their ego's.
As i said to Phil, he does have some good points.
Only i would have put it into words differently and with the nuance his post is lacking.

 

[bèlla]

Nope. But the benefits of toxic feminism never outweighed the costs.

Do you honestly believe that giving women the vote really accomplished anything, other than sending Western nations down the tubes faster? More votes based on emotion, rather than reason, is not a rationale for a successful country.

Or do you believe allowing women to work enriched the nation? Nay, it impoverished families, and turned us all into slaves. Now women who still truly want to do true women's work - i.e. serving their husbands, and raising children - often find they are unable to afford it.

Toxic feminism is a root cause of all manner of evils - divorce, abused children, adultery, homosexuality, gender confusion, poverty, rape, suicide, debt, and outright nastiness. This toxin has done its job. Sadly, the organism still largely does not understand what poisoned it.

Thank you. It is refreshing to hear a Christian man speak as you've done.

 

[mindlight]

That's quite an amazingly false statement there. I wonder why women's shelters still have occupants. Slumming it for a holiday, I suppose?

So, there's no human trafficking issue in Western nations then. That's just a myth I suppose.
So, based on your assertion that women are now free from abuse, and the fact that there have been several female heads of state in Europe, one can assume that women have full legal and social equality? I'm afraid I'm not so easily convinced, especially when there is so much data otherwise, conveniently left out of the OP.

Overall levels of violence against women are declining

For example in the USA:

Rape statistics - Wikipedia

Abuse and trafficking are not just women's issues and there are laws in place to deal with these things. A lot of trafficking for example is of slave labour rather than prostitutes.

There is full equality of opportunity but not of outcome.

 

[bekkilyn]

The object of your disgust should not be men, it should be the particular perpetrators.
I'm not violent, i'm not a rapist, and most men aren't.
You should be fighting injustice, not men in general, not masculinity.

Feminism isn't about fighting men though, and a number of men themselves are feminists themselves as they too are concerned about the inequity between men and women, which does much harm to men as well as women. Feminism *is* about fighting injustice.

And to be clear, i'm on your side when you fight injustice.
But it seems that's not enough.
I don't necessarily mean you, but the feminist movement thing.
You see what happens, and i think Phil could be anm example of what is happening.
Polarisation.
We see families lasting only 5 years.

Do you believe there should be laws forcing families to remain together regardless of whether infidelity or even outright abuse is going on? That's a lot of what happened before it became a choice for people.

We see women who are ashamed to admit they want to live a traditional life, as a mother and a house wife.
Motherhood and housewifehood is looked down upon by feminists, while it is in fact a very important part of a healthy society.

Many feminists are mothers and housewives. While there are women and men who do look down on this lifestyle, it's not feminism doing it, but people who believe that what seems best for them is what is also best for everyone else. Many of those same people also look down on fathers who wish to stay at home with their children while the mother works, and they may even have it worse than the women who choose to do so.

I'd suggest that a lot of this issue is due to how our work lives in general have changed. In earlier centuries, people didn't *go* to work, but got up in the morning, went out to the fields or the general store or whatever the family business and worked and the *entire family* was involved. Once that structure started breaking down and people started leaving their homes for hours and hours every day with longer and longer commutes with only a couple weeks out of the year for vacation to spend with their families, it's no wonder marriages and families collapse. Children spend hours and hours away at school and are often in schools that take a long commute to get to. Families in general spend most of their time with other people than the people in their own families.

Blaming feminism or women for these things is easy, but incorrect. The above is a huge issue even for women who become housewives.

You should try to find out who and what is behind these things, that are pushed down our throats, or that have tempted women by appealing to their ego's.
As i said to Phil, he does have some good points.
Only i would have put it into words differently and with the nuance his post is lacking.

I don't think that blaming women for all the ailments and problems of the world could be considered as "good points" but I appreciate that he's willing to state what he really thinks about women without sugar-coating it in a bunch of platitudes.

 

[bèlla]

"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering... Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny."

Correct.

When my daughter was 12 and on her way home she was stopped by a man asking for directions. He wanted to catch the bus and asked her where it was. She inquired which way he wanted to go. We live in an area that's very popular with tourists and shoppers. But there were no bus signs at the time.

He grabbed her and led her away. It was his intention to hurt her but our area has no vacant spaces. And most of the buildings are retail or condos. She got away and made it home. The incident was reported and he was captured 3 days later.

The therapist reinforced victimhood and I took her out after a few sessions. Due to the public nature of what occurred I felt it best to homeschool her the following year. Healing was my number one goal.

I told her she had two choices: She could live in fear or be determined to live. I reminded her what she'd be giving over if she chose the first. She would have allowed him to destroy her life and control its outcome. That was not an option for me. Not on my watch became my slogan.

I dug up the theme song for the 6 Million Dollar Man and played it for her. Then I looked at her and said, "I built this and I can rebuild it again." I asked her if she understood. She nodded and smiled.

My daughter would go on to complete an honors program in high school and graduate as a member of the National Honor Society, Rotaract, Model Student U.N. and receive rewards for debate. She was a competitive junior golfer and rower. She's 28 now and pursuing her purpose and preparing to leave the workforce next year.

I was a single parent and 31 years old when this occurred. Nevertheless, I had a steeliness that would not relent. I'm a builder and visionary. Losing her was not an option. And I'd do it again.

 

[mindlight]

To say that the main culprit for abortion, broken families, blasphemy and lesbianism (???) is feminism not only shows an appaling lack of knowledge about feminism, but about history in general. Each of these problems are older than history.

Levels of abortion have increased dramatically since the various laws making this legal. Divorce has increased with liberalisation of laws also and especially since about 1960. Homosexuality is now more prevalent. The key event here is the sexual revolution of the sixties and feminism started to go bad around about then also.

 

[Hieronymus]

Okay, i'll make this quick:

Feminism isn't about fighting men though, and a number of men themselves are feminists themselves as they too are concerned about the inequity between men and women, which does much harm to men as well as women. Feminism *is* about fighting injustice.

Nah, not really only that, unfortunately.

Do you believe there should be laws forcing families to remain together regardless of whether infidelity or even outright abuse is going on?

No.

I'd suggest that a lot of this issue is due to how our work lives in general have changed. In earlier centuries, people didn't *go* to work, but got up in the morning, went out to the fields or the general store or whatever the family business and worked and the *entire family* was involved.

Good point.
Ideally it should change back to how it used to be i.m.o.

I don't think that blaming women for all the ailments and problems of the world could be considered as "good points" but I appreciate that he's willing to state what he really thinks about women without sugar-coating it in a bunch of platitudes.

But he's not blaming women for all the ailments and problems of the world.

 

[Hieronymus]

Levels of abortion have increased dramatically since the various laws making this legal. Divorce has increased with liberalisation of laws also and especially since about 1960. Homosexuality is now more prevalent. The key event here is the sexual revolution of the sixties and feminism started to go bad around about then also.

The trends imposed on western civilisations are aimed at destroying it.
Luring people away from God is a large part of that.

 

[mindlight]

That would be Ok if the crimes were not only continuing but increasing statistically in every single country. It is a problem for us all but unfortunately, the victims are mostly women and the perps overwhelmingly male.

What we need from men like you is to stand up and mentor your young men and cut this cycle. From my end, women on my campus are doing practical things to improve our safety. Please stop dismissing us by saying - 'hey laws are passed so stop worrying your pretty little head'

I notice that levels of rape are almost 3 times the level in Australia as in Germany where I live. I have never physically abused women though I will tell them quite directly what I think and some take offence from that. My experience of my children growing up here in Germany is that they have a reasonable attitude towards members of the other sex. It is not really an issue on a gender level. There are bullies , there are abusers but these people are prosecuted when they commit crimes. Gender is really not the reason why people succeed or fail here though I have found Germans far more traditional than in America or the UK about gender roles. But there is a substantial difference between career women and housewives here. The Germans have not really reconciled the job with the family for women. Many top flight career women are single and childless and that is causing a major demographic problem for the country.

You are discussing this well for me - look around at the other posts and identify the caustic responses - that's not discourse - its vitriol. But at least for forums where I live, these posts are helpful to understand just what Christian men think of us, and how we are perceived with such vitriol, and accused of everything from killing babies to causing marriage breakdowns. Its like Christian men won't take responsibility for the issue I raised.

because I identify as Christian and feminist. Why are you so arrogant to call me anti-christian .

I did not call you antichristian. But if you use a label which is used most dominantly by those who contradict your beliefs you are going to slip into the line of fire of an increasingly vitriolic war. Not that I think anybody gains anything by these partisan and hateful insult fests.

But Christian women who think it is alright to have an abortion or break a marriage in favour of an affair are really not reading the same bible as I am.

 

[mindlight]

Nope. But the benefits of toxic feminism never outweighed the costs.

Do you honestly believe that giving women the vote really accomplished anything, other than sending Western nations down the tubes faster? More votes based on emotion, rather than reason, is not a rationale for a successful country.

Or do you believe allowing women to work enriched the nation? Nay, it impoverished families, and turned us all into slaves. Now women who still truly want to do true women's work - i.e. serving their husbands, and raising children - often find they are unable to afford it.

Toxic feminism is a root cause of all manner of evils - divorce, abused children, adultery, homosexuality, gender confusion, poverty, rape, suicide, debt, and outright nastiness. This toxin has done its job. Sadly, the organism still largely does not understand what poisoned it.

American power peaked a generation after giving women the vote. The enormous release of human potential and wealth that has occurred as a result of the liberation of women has benefitted us all. Also there is some credence to the view that the imperial militaristic masculinity of males at the beginning of the last century fed into the wars that cost the world so much then.

I would suggest that impoverishment is mainly relative in the Western world and is at root an economic and social mobility issue as wealth has been concentrated in the hands of the 1%. Though divorce , a fruit of modern feminism is a major driver for social instability that could be attributed to the new feminists to some extent

 

[Nithavela]

Levels of abortion have increased dramatically since the various laws making this legal.

How do you know?

Also, as you might be aware, abortion rates are in a steady decline.

 

[Kaon]

Do the benefits of feminism still outweigh the costs?​

Since women won the vote in Western countries there has been a momentum for improving the situation of women all around the world. Much good has come from this as women have been liberated from abuse, oppression and exploitation into a more equal state of being. Clearly in many countries like Muslim ones or indeed India much work remains to be done but in Britain we have now had 2 female primeministers and in Germany a female Chancellor. In these countries the glass ceiling seems to be broken. But the Feminist cause still seems to be an active one even in Western countries. After centuries of oppression they argue the work of restructuring to allow full equality of opportunity remains undone. Some go further and insist on equality of outcome also.

That said it seems certain toxic forms of feminism are now developing which are poisoning political and cultural debate and action:

1) Abortion
2) The breakup of marriages and broken families. It is women who are initiating most of the divorces.
3) Blasphemy - e.g. slogans on feminists banners suggesting Mary should have had an abortion.
4) Lesbianism

Given the pain that toxic feminism is causing to the fathers of murdered children, the abandoned husbands of adulterous wives who ran off with lesbian lovers and the devout Christian disturbed by feminists blaspheming their God is it time to say that legitimate feminism has run its course in the West and it is time to change the focus. For example a persons level of opportunity is more influenced by the wealth of their parents than their gender these days.

Do the benefits of feminism still outweigh the costs?

I attach a list of womens organisations working to promote the wellbeing of women around the world.
List of women's organizations - Wikipedia

Feminism is a response to particular anthropological male hegemony.

Male hegemony may be a response to an internal insecurity.

It is cyclic; there are no benefits. Any benefits will be absorbed by the male response, and subsequent response to that response.

 

[bekkilyn]

Okay, i'll make this quick:
Nah, not really only that, unfortunately.

Then you must be reading and listening to all the right-wing propaganda that demonizes anything feminism, and much of it in ignorance.

No.

Well making divorce for any reason illegal along with heavy penalties is likely the only way you're going to force people to stay within their marriages, which would of course result in a heavy increase in domestic abuse. After all, when the only way of getting rid of your wife is killing her....

Good point.
Ideally it should change back to how it used to be i.m.o.

It won't. People have too much of a love for money and the things of the world.

But he's not blaming women for all the ailments and problems of the world.

Just most of them. Rather than blaming women (or any other outside person or thing), people should look within our own hearts and start there.