International Feminism

[JustSomeBloke]

When I get a single post that's actually based on fact - you know.... the stuff that comes from a quote from a feminist journal you read...or research conducted...then OK

Where to begin?

How about the well-known feminist Germaine Greer. Greer's opinion of men is that:
"As far as I’m concerned, men are the product of a damaged gene."

Sheila Cronan's view on the covenant of marriage:
"Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the Women’s Movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage."

Valerie Solanas wrote in her SCUM (Society for Cutting Up Men) Manifesto
"To be male is to be deficient, emotionally limited; maleness is a deficiency disease and males are emotional cripples."

Valerie Solanas, again:
Men should "go off to the nearest friendly suicide center where they will be quickly and painlessly gassed to death."

One more (and to be quite frank, this is absolutely repulsive stuff that I'd rather not dwell on).

Suzanne Moore is a prominent writer, columnist and feminist, who has had her work published in The New Statesman, and The Guardian. Her opinion of men is:
"You can't hate them all, can you? Actually, I can"


There are hundreds more examples of this kind of toxic misandry and hatred of God's creation spewed forth by feminists, and some of it comes from what would be regarded as feminism's household names, such as Greer.


Is that factual enough for you? And is it really possible that you support feminism, are a feminist activist, and have not yet encountered the kind of feminist views on God's creation that I've quoted above?

Over to you. OK.

 

[bekkilyn]

“I myself have never been able to find out precisely what feminism is: I only know that people call me a feminist whenever I express sentiments that differentiate me from a doormat.” - Rebecca West

""I’d like every man who doesn’t call himself a feminist to explain to the women in his life why he doesn’t believe in equality for women.” - Louise Brealey

“I do not wish women to have power over men; but over themselves.” - Mary Shelley

"I think every woman in our culture is a feminist. They may refuse to articulate it, but if you were to take any woman back 40 years and say, ‘Is this a world you want to live in?’, they would say ‘No.’” - Helen Mirren

“Very early on in writing the series, I remember a female journalist saying to me that Mrs Weasley, 'Well, you know, she’s just a mother.' And I was absolutely incensed by that comment. Now, I consider myself to be a feminist, and I’d always wanted to show that just because a woman has made a choice, a free choice to say, 'Well, I’m going to raise my family and that’s going to be my choice. I may go back to a career, I may have a career part time, but that’s my choice.' Doesn’t mean that that’s all she can do. And as we proved there in that little battle, Molly Weasley comes out and proves herself the equal of any warrior on that battlefield.” - J.K. Rowling

"“The point is not for women simply to take power out of men’s hands, since that wouldn’t change anything about the world. It’s a question precisely of destroying that notion of power.” - Simone de Beauvoir

"“We all fight over what the label 'feminism' means, but for me it's about empowerment. It's not about being more powerful than men - it's about having equal rights with protection, support, justice. It's about very basic things. It's not a badge like a fashion item.” - Annie Lennox

"As an artist, I never wanted to be fettered by gender nor recognised or defined as a female poet, musician or singer. They don’t do that with men - nobody says Picasso, the male artist. Curators call me up and say, “We want your work to be in a show about women artists,” and I’m like, why? For Christ’s sake, do we have to attach a gender onto everything?" Patti Smith

"A feminist is anyone who recognizes the equality and full humanity of women and men." ―Gloria Steinem

 

[MyOwnSockPuppet]

What it has exposed though is just how spineless the men on this site can be.

Possibly the more reasonable people have been shouted down, browbeaten and shamed on other threads to the point that the only people who will engage are those who are sufficiently belligerent to your viewpoint to respond?

 

[JustSomeBloke]

As a teen feminist my (and my friend's ) concerns are:

• the appalling levels of violence of men towards women
• domestic assaults
• rape
• paedophilia

In countries such as Pakistan or Saudi Arabia women face

• honour killings
• child brides
• and significantly poorer access to legal rights.

When was the last time you attended a protest outside the Saudi Arabian embassy? When was the last time any feminist protested outside a Saudi Arabian embassy?

I ask because this case was quite recent, but I don't recall any people wearing pink hats descending in their thousands on the Saudi Arabian embassy.

How about this case? Did it result in thousands of pink hats outside the UAE embassy?

And those are just two, very recent, high profile cases.

Possibly the more reasonable people have been shouted down, browbeaten and shamed on other threads to the point that the only people who will engage are those who are sufficiently belligerent to your viewpoint to respond?

I think most people realise after a while that it's a waste of effort, and not worth wasting their time on. On the occasions I do post, it's for the record, so that others can see pertinent facts alongside feminist stuff, rather than because I think a feminist will change their mind.

 

[Zoii]

Over to you. OK.

Well firstly, you have at least researched and quoted. You deserve a pat on the back for that. I dont like statements that don't even attempt to have a basis in fact.

But to your point. You've identified what we experience in all types of cohorts. To say, for example, that your a Republican, doesn't mean you have extreme right wing views. Some of course do while others are quite moderate. The same exists for feminism. Its a paradigm expressing ideologies that largely affect women. I've provided a list in this thread several times of those that interest me.

That said - impressed you took the time to quote. Just as an aside - Greer has moved quite away from her statements - still, good on you for researching. . . I also hope you followed through understanding the context of their statements.

 

[Zoii]

Possibly the more reasonable people have been shouted down, browbeaten and shamed on other threads to the point that the only people who will engage are those who are sufficiently belligerent to your viewpoint to respond?

Oh well the unreasonable ones have been very vocal on their behalf. Its just in these threads, women are expected to sit back and take insult after insult. I'll take that in limited doses before I call them out. That you don't like the vitriol being called out is an issue you will have to deal with.

 

[Zoii]

I ask because this case was quite recent, but I don't recall any people wearing pink hats descending in their thousands on the Saudi Arabian embassy.

There was a massive response to this - my campus included. If your attempt is to discredit me for being concerned over the issues women face abroad - you failed.

Of all the issues I raised that my campus is concerned about - that was all you could come up with - How disappointing men are still impotent and do not seem to have the fortitude in this thread to stand up and say - Yes, its about time men took responsibility for the violence, rapes, paedophilia they commit - why in this age are we still doing it and what do we need to do...... Instead we got from you "wheres the pink hats' - seriously?

 

[JustSomeBloke]

Possibly the more reasonable people have been shouted down, browbeaten and shamed on other threads to the point that the only people who will engage are those who are sufficiently belligerent to your viewpoint to respond?

I think most people realise after a while that it's a waste of effort, and not worth wasting their time on. On the occasions I do post, it's for the record, so that others can see pertinent facts alongside feminist stuff, rather than because I think a feminist will change their mind.

I think we've both just been proved right!

I asked what I thought was a reasonable question, given that there seems to be large numbers of people attending general, unspecific feminism type protests, and because I thought a lot of people would be wondering why protesters were not standing outside embassies. And I get all of the below thrown back at me!

Quod erat demonstrandum.

If your attempt is to discredit me

that was all you could come up with

Instead we got from you "wheres the pink hates' - seriously?

 

[mindlight]

You show ignorance of issues in your own country. Sexual assault rates have increased year on year over the last decade in Germany. Currently, it runs at currently at 9.1 per 100K. Convictions have fallen from 20% in 1980 to just 8% now. Similar prevalences exist for paedophilia and domestic violence in Germany.
Rape in Germany - Wikipedia
Not that there isn't perspective on all this - Germany and Australia are great places to live.

Its the manner in which you try to deflect issues and make statements based on ZERO data/evidence.
That you would try to diminish the issue by saying its not much of an issue in your country, is not only ignorant but displays an abominable attempt to say'Hey look over there - yeah - feminism - nothing to see here with our rapes or domestic murders'.

That little trick you tried to pull, will not release you from the failure to stand up for what's right. Women have every reason to be concerned for the topic I raised - Rape, violence, domestic assaults, paedophilia, and access to vocations.

Instead, you want to hide behind the skirts of feminists and say everything is their fault. But its a transparent failure.

You are not being very honest with the stats here. Rape in Australia is around 29 per 100000 and in Germany around 9. The German rape law has been massively liberalised and the definition extended since 1980 which explains most of the increase from about 7.5 at its low to 9. Still this is nothing compared to the Australian number.

Also noone has denied male responsibility in this thread. But the thread is about the toxic effects of feminism versus its good impacts. An increased awareness of violence and what constitutes consent is more responsible for those ridiculous scenes when NASA lands a probe on Mars. A series of elaborate hi fives follow where people used to hug. There are so many laws against touch why take the chance being the sentiment.

 

[Zoii]

Also noone has denied male responsibility in this thread. But the thread is about the toxic effects of feminism versus its good impacts.

The thread was titled - International Feminism. Is it working for good? You said No - My role is to highlight the issues which I really hope are not continued to be brushed off. You state that men don't deny responsibility here - well - your the first to say it but thanks for doing it.

We all know the tribulations women face, when you have the same statistical rates of rape, paedophilia and domestic violence, within Christian cohorts as compared to the overall population.

I'm not an enemy. I don't want to be called the names (whether directly at me or addressed to those who call themselves feminist). I'm an average teenager and its only here, it seems, that such names are levelled at me and my peers.

I'm not sure from your post if you are trying to set that right - I would like to think that you are.

You are not being very honest with the stats here. Rape in Australia is around 29 per 100000 and in Germany around 9

I really dont mind what stats you use. But at last, you are reinforcing my point. I have said all along that I cant understand why it is everyone isn't a feminist. How can you explain to your partner you are not interested in her welfare, violence against her, and the same aspects of equality. You have highlighted how the problem in my country and yours (and heck every country) continues with regards to domestic violence, sexual assault paedophilia etc. This is a positive thing for you to have said. Acknowledgement of the issue is the first step to reducing the problem. The next is to support action against such issues. Feminists are not the enemy. We have genuine concerns and would prefer that, just as you have now done, acknowledge the scale of the issues.

PS I didn't want to get into a debate about stats for Aust and Germany. But I wanted to highlight that current stats for Germany are alarming. While your stats of 9.4 per 100 000 was in 2010..things have changed


The reason I didnt mention it in my main reply is because - heck Germany is an awesome place and I wanted to stay on topic - ie regardless of stats, we have a problem that feminists are attempting to highlight.

Top 10 Countries With Highest Rape Crime

You standing up as you have done is what your country needs as the social dynamic shifts. Continue to acknowledge the issue as you did, and ask what you can do.... and you can be empowered to make change. Women aren't your enemy - they want you on their side.

 

[ThievingMagpie]

That said it seems certain toxic forms of feminism are now developing which are poisoning political and cultural debate and action:

1) Abortion
2) The breakup of marriages and broken families. It is women who are initiating most of the divorces.
3) Blasphemy - e.g. slogans on feminists banners suggesting Mary should have had an abortion.
4) lesbianism

1) I'm glad women in western societies have the right to choose. Safe and healthy access to abortion combined with high quality sex education is very effective policy to control and reduce abortion rates. Otherwise you end up with an out of control system of female exploitation to the point where the church itself had to set up a secret network of practioners and consultants to help vulnerable women access safe abortions - see the clergy consultation service.

2) Kind of a meaningless statement without looking at the causes. But again a non ideal situation that allows adults to freely choose is better than a system where men and women can be trapped in abusive relationships.

3) I see no connection to feminism here. You has the concept of blasphemy way before feminism. As an atheist man I'm apparently blaspheming all the time.

4) I'm glad gay people can live happy, open and loving lives. Legalising gay marriage in the UK was one of the few things our Government has done right.

All in all, thanks feminism!