Interest

[Touma]

So I know you all have probably had a million topics on this subject before, asking many of the same things I want to inquire about. Well, I guess this post will make a million and one topics.


Anyways, I have interest in the Orthodox church. First, let me give you my back ground. I went to a baptist church as a child. I never had relationship with Christ there, but I learned much of the theology, which stuck with me. When I finally converted to Christ 4 years ago, I held on to that theology I previously learned. It is of the school of Jacobus Arminius. Well, the church that I went to after becoming a Christian and baptized was technically non-denominational, but affiliated with Restoration Movement (Stone-Campbell for anyone who is curious). I've learned a lot from both of these view points, and they have helped me grow close to Christ.

Yet, I still feel like they are lacking something. It might be that maybe I am lacking something and they are perfectly fine and I am not. I do not think so, but that is a part of the life I live. I will pray to seek truth. That is all any of us can ever do.

So I find certain things lacking. For instance, Sola Scriptura, while having great intentions, has done nothing but caused division and strife. We all serve the same God who wrote the same Bible, and gave us the same Holy Spirit to interpret it for us. Why then are we, the various protestant churches, so sure of being the correct church and call everyone else out? This does not make sense to me. So, I like the way the Orthodox do it, which(to my understanding) is to use tradition and spiritual authority in conjunction with Scripture to provide doctrine. So I really am convinced in the rightness of that.

I also find the beauty of worship, and the reverence of God to be a good point for Orthodoxy. In the modern American evangelical church, Jesus seems to be made into this weak man with no real power except to give me my desires. He is my friend always there with me, but never the Lord who commands my life. I can sing songs about how Great God is for saving ME (would he not be as great if I wasn't saved?) but rarely sing things which simply praise Him for being Him. This so disturbs me, and it seems to be a trend which doesn't go away.


Those are the main things which point me towards Orthodox churches (with other ideas, like theosis, helping too).

Of course, there a few things that have me doubt going to Orthodox. Things like revering Saints, Mary, having Icons, infant baptism. I know many of the reasons behind them. For instance, I understand that you don't worship the saints or Mary. I get that. I know you honor them for the work that God achieved through them, which is actually honoring God. I also understand there is a case made for infant baptism. I truly do. I just don't feel comfortable, even after hearing the reasons. Maybe I don't actually fully understand.

The other thing that is prohibiting me from converting is that the nearest church is maybe 45mins-1 hour away. My car isn't currently capable of making that trip every week. I do good making it through town. So I'd hate to switch over, and have no where to go.


So, here is this point of the thread. I am certain there are some here who came from a protestant background into orthodoxy, who probably feel the same way I do. Maybe they had the same uneasiness at first. I want to hear from them why they converted over, and in their own words explain to me these things which I wonder about.

Blessing and peace,
Zilam

 

[ArmyMatt]

as a former Protestant I can say that it is fine to have these reservations. you don't need to inquire about the faith or even be recieved to be comfortable with what is done. you just have to accept it as true, which it seems from your post you don't have any problem with. so be patient, prayerful, and know that God will let you be ready with this stuff when He knows you are. no one who inquired into Orthodoxy that I know was ever ran out because they didn't venerate and icon. most of us at least living in the West, and some who came from Western Protestant backgrounds, understand the apprehension.

now, as far as me personally, I had some misgivings coming in, toward Mary especially, but I figured it was me going against a 2000 year consensus, if someone was wrong, it was me. so some things took me a little longer to either get or feel comfortable with, but eventually I did, and now things like Marian veneration I can't see myself not doing. so just be patient and trust God, you'll get there when you are ready.

as far as the distance thing goes, I would talk to the closest priest to see what you can work out, even if it is something like a few lunches every once and again. he would be the guy to talk to.

welcome to TAW!

 

[Coralie]

Hi Zilam, I'm just here to offer you my support whenever you need it. God will guide you in the way He wishes you to go. You sound like you're trying so hard to be faithful and you will be rewarded for that. Take heart and don't fear

I used to hold all the usual prejudices/uneasinesses towards the things you describe. But really... in the end I just thought, am I going to go with religious beliefs that were made up in the 1500s, according to a faulty way of reading/understanding the Bible? Or am I going to surrender to the living, breathing will of the Church that Christ established? That was it for me really. I accepted that my misgivings were based on cultural habits of thought, rather than actual objections.

 

[ProScribe]

Welcome to TAW. I say ~ 'Come and See' . .

 

[-Kyriaki-]

Welcome, and believe us when we say you're not alone. Most of us have been in your shoes at some point or another - I didn't have issues with Saints (St Kyriaki had forcibly made her way into my life to get me to the Church in the first place, but that's a story of its own) but Mary....hoo boy. Most protestants do.

It's not one of those things that can be 'got' conceptually - it makes a lot more sense when you just spend time in the activities and services of the Church, and that helps more than you could imagine.

With the 'too far' thing - get in touch with the priest or the parish secretary, there might be someone who lives where you do or is willing to come get you. Someone I met on the internet, of all places, did that for me for a year and a half, and I live 45 min by car away from my parish too (and don't have a car - don't ask how long it takes by bus, it scares me).

And please stay here and talking to us, there are no dumb questions and we love new faces

 

[Touma]

Thanks everyone for the warm greetings. I greatly appreciate that. I have a few questions that are on my mind right now:

-If I were to convert over to Orthodoxy, would I have to be re-baptized? I was baptized in a non-denominational Church, and of course I fully believe I have the Holy Spirit dwelling with in me, as I have seen its wondrous acts in my life many times. I didn't know if perhaps it was something that was required upon converting over.

-I am big into evangelism. I love to go and preach the gospel to people. It seems silly to ask, but how important is evangelism in EO? I ask because I never have seen EO preaching to people on street, having one on one conversations, etc. Then again, it might just be the area here is lacking in EO believers. I am not even sure how different it might to preach from an EO perspective versus the typical American evangelical perspective.

- What is the exact view of salvation in EO? Is it by faith alone? Faith+ works? My view is that faith alone saves, but works are the mark of maturity and fruit of the Spirit. They do no save, but they are an indicator of one who is redeemed and obeying the lord. Would this view be acceptable in the church?

That is all for now. Thanks again everyone!

Blessings.

 

[choirfiend]

-If I were to convert over to Orthodoxy, would I have to be re-baptized? I was baptized in a non-denominational Church, and of course I fully believe I have the Holy Spirit dwelling with in me, as I have seen its wondrous acts in my life many times. I didn't know if perhaps it was something that was required upon converting over.

You must have had a baptism that was at LEAST done in the correct form. Whatever is lacking will be completed by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit when you are anointed in Chrismation. Correct forms of baptism include water, being baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and being baptised by a church that is known to believe in the Trinity the same way we do. If you were not even baptized according to this, you will receive your first complete baptism through the Church. Your local priest can tell you which would be the case for you, as he is working under the direction of his Bishop.

-I am big into evangelism. I love to go and preach the gospel to people. It seems silly to ask, but how important is evangelism in EO? I ask because I never have seen EO preaching to people on street, having one on one conversations, etc. Then again, it might just be the area here is lacking in EO believers. I am not even sure how different it might to preach from an EO perspective versus the typical American evangelical perspective.

Evangelism is very important, as God told us to go preach to all nations. Evangelism often looks different in Orthodoxy than evangelical because we believe salvation and such is much, much more than what happens when praying a sinners' prayer, for example, so it's not th same approach. Many one on one conversations happen with those we meet--but not necessarily going door to door or through stopping random people on the street. Much is also made of the inner spiritual life as a tool for evangelism. A saying from a saint is, "Acquire the Holy Spirit and thousands around you will be saved." Be yourself an example is the first part of evangelism.

- What is the exact view of salvation in EO? Is it by faith alone? Faith+ works? My view is that faith alone saves, but works are the mark of maturity and fruit of the Spirit. They do no save, but they are an indicator of one who is redeemed and obeying the lord. Would this view be acceptable in the church?

God alone saves. Faith IS a work. God made us to work. And salvation is a process that doesn't even end after death. How about that for turning things on their heads?

 

[Coralie]

-If I were to convert over to Orthodoxy, would I have to be re-baptized? I was baptized in a non-denominational Church, and of course I fully believe I have the Holy Spirit dwelling with in me, as I have seen its wondrous acts in my life many times. I didn't know if perhaps it was something that was required upon converting over.

If you were baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in a Trinitarian church, in water, generally that's accepted as a valid baptism. In that case, you would usually be received into the Church via chrismation.

However, it's up to your priest. Orthodoxy, particularly conversion, is about obedience and putting your trust in the Church. If you're not ready to do that, you're not ready to convert.

I was baptised in a Protestant church, but I was received with baptism and chrismation, since my priest (quite rightly) felt my previous church didn't understand baptism in the Orthodox sense. I accepted that. And TBH, my Orthodox baptism was an amazing experience that I will never forget. I'm very grateful for it.

-I am big into evangelism. I love to go and preach the gospel to people. It seems silly to ask, but how important is evangelism in EO? I ask because I never have seen EO preaching to people on street, having one on one conversations, etc. Then again, it might just be the area here is lacking in EO believers. I am not even sure how different it might to preach from an EO perspective versus the typical American evangelical perspective.

Generally we don't "witness" in the way you may be used to. We believe that a true Christian life is the best form of evangelism. "Acquire a peaceful spirit, and thousands around you will be saved", like others have said. It's about obedience and humility first... talking comes much later, or not at all.

That said, there are Orthodox lay missionaries and street preachers, it's all about what your community is up to really. You need to talk to your parish priest about this, and see what his view is.

My sense is that he would want you to grow in your faith for some time before sending you off, gung-ho, to tell strangers about Orthodoxy. There's a lot of depth, a lot to cover, a lot to strip away and face up to in your own heart before God will send you in that way (IMO).

- What is the exact view of salvation in EO? Is it by faith alone? Faith+ works? My view is that faith alone saves, but works are the mark of maturity and fruit of the Spirit. They do no save, but they are an indicator of one who is redeemed and obeying the lord. Would this view be acceptable in the church?

Faith and works are the same. They can't appear separately. There is no discussion of which is greater and which saves... they are the same. If you have one without the other, something is hugely, desperately wrong.

 

[beardedone]

Zilam-just wanted to chime in here on your initial post. I converted about 11 months ago from Protestantism. I spent a solid two years studying and going back and forth on whether to convert. I spent a little over a year of that time as a catechumen. I had some misgivings about the veneration of Mary and the saints. I had some misgivings about closed communion. I had some misgivings about the use of icons. However, when it came down to it-I was sick and tired of trying to be my own authority on matters of God. That was my breaking point with Protestantism. It wasn't about what I believed but about what God had handed down for the last 2000 years. I finally realized that it was about the consensus of the Church not just what I believed. I think you will also have to realize that you will need to give up some theological beliefs that you think are right based on your own authority in the face of what the Church as a whole believes and proclaims to be true. May God bless you on your journey-and please call or email a priest to ask some questions because they will be much more knowledgable than random people on the internet.