Intelligence, Atheism & Relgiosity.

Zoii

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Intelligence, September-October 2013, Vol.41(5), pp.482-489

Abstract
Is there a positive impact of intelligence on religious disbelief after we account for the fact that both average intelligence and religious disbelief tend to be higher in more developed countries? We carry out four beta regression analyses and conclude that the answer is yes. We also compute impact curves that show how the effect of intelligence on atheism changes with average intelligence quotients. The impact is stronger at lower intelligence levels, peaks somewhere between 100 and 110, and then weakens. Bootstrap standard errors for our point estimates and bootstrap confidence intervals are also computed. •It has been established that intelligence positively correlates with atheism.•We show that intelligence impacts atheism even we account for economic development.•Impact curves of intelligence on religious disbelief are constructed.

The conclusions are a little concerning when seeking a religious pathway.
 

Zoii

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Theres a follow-up study to this, that showed that while there is a correlation between religiosity and decrease in IQ, there is a positive correlation between reduced cognitive decline in old-age and increased religiosity.
 
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durangodawood

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Is religion naturally less attractive to higher intelligence people in the contemporary world?

Or do high-religiosity people fail more often to encourage intelligence building activities among their offspring?

Or does religious practice somehow dull the mind, on average?

Or something else...?
 
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Zoii

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Is religion naturally less attractive to higher intelligence people in the contemporary world?

Or do high-religiosity people fail more often to encourage intelligence building activities among their offspring?

Or does religious practice somehow dull the mind, on average?

Or something else...?
Each question you ask is a separate study in itself.
A study I have read shows a correlation between increased fundamentalism and decreased IQ. While an openness in one's religious outlook, correlated with higher IQ.

That fails to answer your questions but adds a little to the OP context.
 
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Roidecoeur78

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Perceived intelligence makes a person conceited (just like beauty, wealth, status, and everything else that will go no further than the grave) religious scriptures from various "faiths" do not say anything about those that are wise in their own eyes being humble enough to be saved. Those that are wise in their own eyes are often unwilling to recognize and admit their own limitations(where one's knowledge ends, belief must be held), so how will they see or admit where they are in error in relation to the Divine?

I'm reasonably sure that many intelligent people think they actually know that Mars exists, when what they are really doing is believing it exists, by taking 2nd and 3rd hand information and trusting it is reliable. They have to additionally trust that their senses and comprehension level have a reliable amount of facility and accuracy, along with being skeptical enough to analyze whether they have a personal bias, either for or against believing or disbelieving in a particular person, place, thing, concept, or state-of-being. Sounds like a whole lot of belief to me, even the empiricist needs to trustingly believe that the laws of physics that made his or her scientific study trustworthy yesterday and today will still be applicable if he or she has a tomorrow.

Is a submissive relationship to the Creator less attractive to those that believe they can get everything they want with their perceived health, wealth, youth, beauty, intelligence, and strength? Certainly, if all that they want is to enjoy now what is eventually going to be taken away from them and return to the dust. What is very appealing is what is available to understand and be had now, according to one's animal instincts, for personal gratification; but it's a dead end.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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... I'm reasonably sure that many intelligent people think they actually know that Mars exists, when what they are really doing is believing it exists, by taking 2nd and 3rd hand information and trusting it is reliable.
...
... What is very appealing is what is available to understand and be had now, according to one's animal instincts, for personal gratification; but it's a dead end.
Presumably, you think you know this when what you are really doing is believing it on 2nd and 3rd hand information and trusting it is reliable? ;)
 
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Roidecoeur78

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Once I merely believed Paris existed.

Then I went there and now I know!
Exactly, one can believe both true and false things, but false belief can never be verified. True belief will be converted to knowledge, if and when a personal experience verifies it; but false belief will either fall away through experiencing what is true, or become a superstition held in vanity.

Did you believe France was made of cheese before you got there? That's a common misconception.
 
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Roidecoeur78

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Presumably, you think you know this when what you are really doing is believing it on 2nd and 3rd hand information and trusting it is reliable? ;)
Yes, there is what I believe and there is what I know. One can really only speak on what they themselves have seen, heard, done, comprehended, etc., and he or she will have either beliefs or knowledge based on that. What I have experienced you cannot know, though you may believe or disbelieve it based solely on what I might describe of my own experience. And what you believe, disbelieve, or know, based on your own experience, I cannot know; but I may believe or disbelieve it if you described it, depending on what level of credulity your description might inspire.
 
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durangodawood

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....Did you believe France was made of cheese before you got there? That's a common misconception.
Thats silly. I had watched the Tour de France prior. You cant ride a bike on cheese!

Well maybe on Parmesan. But that's Italy.
 
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durangodawood

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Perceived intelligence makes a person conceited (just like beauty, wealth, status, and everything else that will go no further than the grave) ...
Slightly off topic, but.... are you saying that, in the Christian view, intelligence does not go further than the grave if you are saved
 
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Uber Genius

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Intelligence, September-October 2013, Vol.41(5), pp.482-489

Abstract
Is there a positive impact of intelligence on religious disbelief after we account for the fact that both average intelligence and religious disbelief tend to be higher in more developed countries? We carry out four beta regression analyses and conclude that the answer is yes. We also compute impact curves that show how the effect of intelligence on atheism changes with average intelligence quotients. The impact is stronger at lower intelligence levels, peaks somewhere between 100 and 110, and then weakens. Bootstrap standard errors for our point estimates and bootstrap confidence intervals are also computed. •It has been established that intelligence positively correlates with atheism.•We show that intelligence impacts atheism even we account for economic development.•Impact curves of intelligence on religious disbelief are constructed.

The conclusions are a little concerning when seeking a religious pathway.
How intelligent can one be to argue from a classical fallacy known as the genetic fallacy?

Why not focus on the truth value of the statement "God exists," rather then incoherent arguments that due to their fallacious nature can't possibly be true?

Conversely, we could publish a study that says Atheists are more likely to abuse children and practice aberrant antisocial behavior, and even if that were true, it has nothing to do with whether God exists or not.

That atheists make these basic logic mistakes while trying to point out how smart they are is ironic and entertaining, but it doesn't mean atheism is false, that claim like the theistic one rests on evidence and argument for its truth value.
 
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Uber Genius

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Once I merely believed Paris existed.

Then I went there and now I know!
So since you haven't experienced the hot Big Bang creation of the universe you can't know about it?

This is a classical epistemological problem brought to the fore by Hume, regarding an Indian prince and his disbelief in snow. Problem is it destroys most of what our culture counts as knowledge.
 
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durangodawood

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So since you haven't experienced the hot Big Bang creation of the universe you can't know about it?

This is a classical epistemological problem brought to the fore by Hume, regarding an Indian prince and his disbelief in snow. Problem is it destroys most of what our culture counts as knowledge.
"Destroys" is rather overstating it.

We learn how knowledge is produced, and then selectively verify through experience. The rate of positive verification is pretty high for knowledge thats deeper than news or gossip.
 
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Roidecoeur78

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Slightly off topic, but.... are you saying that, in the Christian view, intelligence does not go further than the grave if you are saved
Oh boy, I love philosophy. I wondered if anyone would bring up Mr. Hume or epistemology by name. But I can't speak for the "Christian" view, at least not the one of the modern majority, only the view afforded to me. Because I see a great behavioral disparity between what is written in scripture of how a spiritual being will live, and how those that say one thing and do another are not all that spiritual. There are clear indications with which to discern between those two types, and there may be countless of variations between the two; but it takes perspicacity, just like spotting a camouflaged moth on a tree trunk. The moth probably has no idea or intent of deceiving itself or anyone, it's just running an inherited natural program that facilitates its continued survival; it may be the same for many of those that inherit a religion. A person is not saved just because they have inherited a social club, even if it is built around a Holy book that has been reduced to oft-repeated jargon that they do not fully comprehend or ever seek to. Christ Himself said reading the scriptures does not save anyone.

My own understanding regarding intelligence includes this (and it's the same for all those other things mentioned before such as health, wealth, beauty, etc): It doesn't matter whether a person is intelligent or not, what matters is how they use it and to what end. A person with Downs syndrome might be superficially considered with condescending pathos by any measure of natural intelligence, or social ability, but in God's eyes he or she may be the closest thing to being an angel in human form as one can get. I myself have never met a person with Down's syndrome that had a mean bone in their body. Inasmuch as the brain, as a physical organ, is the seat of intelligence, said intelligence, or lack thereof, will likely cease at physical death (that being the separation of soul and body). But I won't get to know until I get there. It all really ties into whether one can discern and distinguish between intelligence, knowledge, and wisdom, and whether any of it can be determined to be imperishable or not. Besides, I'm not sure the self is the most accurate or unbiased of estimators when it comes to intelligence, neither one's own nor that of anyone else- See the Dunning-Kruger effect.

*To go completely off topic, do you think the Original Poster realizes she has misspelled Religiosity? Oh well, to err is human to forgive is divine.
 
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Uber Genius

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"Destroys" is rather overstating it.

We learn how knowledge is produced, and then selectively verify through experience. The rate of positive verification is pretty high for knowledge thats deeper than news or gossip.
Destroys, annihilate, utterly undermines, falsifies, take your pick.

Math, most science other than hard sciences, anthropology, history, law, philosophy are not predicated on our experience. That is why I used cosmogony in my example. We will never have an experience of the majority of laws in physics or the of shells bonding in chemistry. So I am being pedantic to demonstrate the tight linkage of "experience" to "knowledge."

And then there is Descartes cogito that seems to undermine our experiences as fallible and therefore unreliable as sources of knowledge. He is wrong and few are as skeptical as he was, but I argue experience plays a role in certain types of knowledge but not a necessary role in the majority of knowledge.
 
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durangodawood

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Destroys, annihilate, utterly undermines, falsifies, take your pick.

Math, most science other than hard sciences, anthropology, history, law, philosophy are not predicated on our experience. That is why I used cosmogony in my example. We will never have an experience of the majority of laws in physics or the of shells bonding in chemistry. So I am being pedantic to demonstrate the tight linkage of "experience" to "knowledge."

And then there is Descartes cogito that seems to undermine our experiences as fallible and therefore unreliable as sources of knowledge. He is wrong and few are as skeptical as he was, but I argue experience plays a role in certain types of knowledge but not a necessary role in the majority of knowledge.
What about your other example: "an Indian prince and his disbelief in snow" ?

That one is exactly like my evolving knowledge about Paris.
 
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Zoii

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How intelligent can one be to argue from a classical fallacy known as the genetic fallacy?

I do not know what you mean by 'Genetic Fallacy'

Why not focus on the truth value of the statement "God exists," rather then incoherent arguments that due to their fallacious nature can't possibly be true?

That is another research topic though I suspect would be very difficult to objectively measure.

This research is not about any particular God and looks at a broad spectrum of religions and measures religiosity against the participants IQ.

This OP is not about Christian doctrine.

Conversely, we could publish a study that says Atheists are more likely to abuse children and practice aberrant antisocial behaviour,

You certainly could. You assert your hypothesis and then attain objective measures. You identify the child abuse rates of atheists and measure that against the general population or even those with religious convictions. Not a good example though given whats known re historical child abuse within religious institutions.

atheists make these basic logic mistakes

By all means outline where you felt the research design failed research methodology standards.
 
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Roidecoeur78

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How disappointing you chose not to focus on the OP and instead opted for a personal attack on me..... I did not publish or participate in the research or the replications of that study. Ive posted it here for discussion.
It is very unfortunate that people are often unwilling to be up for open-minded discussion, and instead would rather get offended and defensive. But that is the biggest problem with so many self-identified believers. They do the cause no good by being reactionary, in fact they harm it.

There's little doubt in my mind that the study is most likely accurate, and that is just my intuition from personal observation. But I'd like to point out it only illustrates the general rule, without mentioning the anomalous exceptions to the rule which are sure to exist but are less easily tracked.
 
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durangodawood

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Destroys, annihilate, utterly undermines, falsifies, take your pick.

Math, most science other than hard sciences, anthropology, history, law, philosophy are not predicated on our experience. That is why I used cosmogony in my example. We will never have an experience of the majority of laws in physics or the of shells bonding in chemistry. So I am being pedantic to demonstrate the tight linkage of "experience" to "knowledge."

And then there is Descartes cogito that seems to undermine our experiences as fallible and therefore unreliable as sources of knowledge. He is wrong and few are as skeptical as he was, but I argue experience plays a role in certain types of knowledge but not a necessary role in the majority of knowledge.
My general point its fair to consider "knowledge" as both both direct experience, and findings indirectly translated to us by time tested institutions using methods we broadly understand.
 
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