Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
And baptism is about faith, not about indoctrination.
Pfft.
Baptism doesn't force someone to stay a Christian.
It's step 1 in the indoctrination process.
But it does force them to initially be labeled as one, without their consent.
And it is step one of a long indoctrination process.
Religions are taught, not discovered.
Sorry to see that you just "pffft" my point away.
After baptism one is to walk - walk in newness of life.
babies crawl
A person is supposed to repent and then be baptized.
Neither can we, without the help of Jesus Christ. So if we can get that help, so can babies.There was the baptism of John at first. Then later, we are to be
buried with Christ - risen with Christ - and walk in newness of life.
This is after we have already repented of our sins and given
our life to Him and now we are a new creation. old things are
passed away -and become new
Babies cannot do these things.
Was there a point in your life you realized you were lost and in need of a savior?i don't need a personal "event" to know I'm saved. Jesus dying on the cross is enough. I've been a redeemed Christian since the day I was baptized, as an infant, because it's not anything I do or did, it's what the Holy Spirit did in me.
Was there a point in your life you realized you were lost and in need of a savior?
So you never had to humbly accept God's charity?
I've known my whole life that I was a lost and condemned creature, purchased and won by my savior's blood. God's charity was given to me. I didn't do anything to accept it.
You are making two contradictory statements: “my whole life that I was a lost…” and “purchased and won by my savior's blood” so how do you reconcile those two ideas. Either you believe you were always saved or you believe you were at lost at some time, but not both.
Did you ever felt hell bound?
From what you are saying “I didn't do anything to accept it”, means you never had to humbly accept God’s charity, since you always had it?
Can you point to any New Testament individual that was always in this “saved” condition and did not make a transition from lost (hell bound) to heaven bound?
Praise and thanks to God.
Praise God indeed.
Please don't hear this as doubting your testimony, but wouldn't you say that salvation is a gift that needs to be received? Surely there must be a moment for everyone, whether they can remember it or not, when they say, "Lord I believe you died for me and receive you as my Saviour"?
I don't take it as doubt. It's a question I often hear.
No, because all I can do is reject Him. It's like someone stuck a dollar bill in my pocket. I didn't accept it, it was just there. I can keep it, or I can throw it away. As far as faith, I keep mine only through the power of the Holy Spirit. I can't on my own choose to believe, but I can on my own reject.
We are all born sinners. We are all born lost. But we are saved through Jesus Christ. If I didn't have Jesus Christ in my life, I would be lost. I don't feel (nor have I ever felt) hell bound, because of Jesus Christ.
If I can't point to a new testament person who was like me, what would that prove?
You're like the disciples looking for Jesus when he had been resurrected. The empty tomb is in front of you, but it's not enough. You want a "sign", you want some sort of "feeling" that you are saved. That's not how it happens. I personally do not have this "moment" where I figured out "I'M SAVED!" I've just always known.
Praise and thanks to God.
You ask: “If I can't point to a new testament person who was like me, what would that prove?”
I went through all the same stages of conversion you find in every example in the New Testament and you are saying you did not, so is there a difference?
This is not part of the discussion but you brought it up: “We are all born sinners”. I believe all mature adults do sin, but prior to becoming mature adults they are not guilty of sin. The knowledge of Good and Evil was passed down to us from Adam and Eve, but not their sin. Do you believe every all Newborns are hell bound sinners?
I see God giving us a mission statement and objective while here on earth. Some like to say the objective is to “Glorify God”, but that does not provide understanding of the objective since a tree glorifies God by being a tree. What all does it take for a person to glorify God and what does a person do who does not glorify God?
But it does force them to initially be labeled as one, without their consent.
That is YOUR experience, though. It doesn't mean that everyone has to have the same experience.
I believe in the concept of original sin, on the basis of Psalm 51:5 David is not just speaking of himself in this psalm.
When they can be held accountable for their sins, which is not a "fixed" time for us to know.If you believe that adults are the only people can sin, how do you draw the line? At what age is someone suddenly sinful?
Can a baby be made a disciple?God's mission to us was laid out in the Great Commission: Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Note that he didn't say "but only the adults"...
I agree, but just as those in the first century could use their believer baptism as part of their witness to others I can also. When I teach others I do not tell them or even ask them if they want to be believer immersed baptized nor do I suggest they are hell bound (since I do not believe they are at that point [since God makes the decision]), but just read scripture on the subject and give mine and other’s experience. The bottom line has been their response of: “I want to be baptized”.
Do you believe the nonbeliever going through the stags of hearing, believing, repenting, and confessing is hell bound until he/she is baptized?
Would infant baptism have any significant, if the infant was not hell bound?
...Edited for brevity...
When they can be held accountable for their sins, which is not a "fixed" time for us to know.
Can a baby be made a disciple?
My baptism was no different from yours, assuming yours was done in the name of the Triune God.
That's a nice copy and paste and I've read it before, but it does not refute original sin.
And that there is why the age of accountability is a farce.
We're all sinful, from birth, before birth. Jesus didn't die for just those who are aware of their sins, he died for EVERYONE.
Given that I've seen some pretty miraculous things come from a baby being baptized, I say absolutely.
If you were (sprinkled) baptized as a baby:
1. your personal commitment was not witnessed.
2. It was not a humiliating action on your part.
3. You did not experience the death burial and resurrection.
4. You could not feel the transition from a lost state to a saved state.
5. You had not following the stages of conversion.
6. It was not your response to the good news message.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?