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Infallibility of Scriptures Proves Gay is Sin according to the Scriptures

MercyBurst

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Christians should not be homosexuals:

20 " 'Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor's wife and defile yourself with her. Levitcus 18:20

Leviticus 18:19-22 confirmed by Acts 15:19-22

19"It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21For Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath."

I agree with you. Do you believe the scriptures are prejudiced, mistranslated, etc, or do you believe the scriptures are a trustworthy source of truth?

I want to open your eyes. It all boils down to the authority of the scriptures. All the hype, all the arguments, accusations, and everything else the pro-gay side has to offer is just a smoke screen to take your eyes off the scriptures.

The other side doesn't even realize they've been taken by the devil. Open your eyes and look.

This is the devil's oldest trick: "Hath God said?"
 
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PinkTulip

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I agree with you. Do you believe the scriptures are prejudiced, mistranslated, etc, or do you believe the scriptures are a trustworthy source of truth?

I want to open your eyes. It all boils down to the authority of the scriptures. All the hype, all the arguments, accusations, and everything else the pro-gay side has to offer is just a smoke screen to take your eyes off the scriptures.

The other side doesn't even realize they've been taken by the devil. Open your eyes and look.

This is the devil's oldest trick: "Hath God said?"

Are you asking me if I believe scriptures to be infallible? :D You should know by now I do. I believe there are fundamental truths throughout the Bible, from front to back. I don’t put my faith in human authority or mix God’s words with man’s words (cause what do we know???).
 
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MercyBurst

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Are you asking me if I believe scriptures to be infallible? :D You should know by now I do. I believe there are fundamental truths throughout the Bible, from front to back. I don’t put my faith in human authority or mix God’s words with man’s words (cause what do we know???).

You believe the scritures are true, hence you believe that homosexual behavior is sin.

So how can the gay-backers debate the scriptures when they CAN NOT possibly have the truth of the scriptures?

They don't believe the scriptures, hence they have nothing but their own opinions which they try to back up with scriptures. But they don't really believe the scriptures to start with. Hence they are lieing to themselves.
 
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PinkTulip

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How does one who believes scripture is fallible understand its fallibility? How do you pick and choose which part to take seriously and which to not...Which part of the Bible is fallible and infallible? To me if you believe it is fallible, wouldn’t the whole thing be fallible?
 
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PinkTulip

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You believe the scritures are true, hence you believe that homosexual behavior is sin.

So how can the gay-backers debate the scriptures when they CAN NOT possibly have the truth of the scriptures?

They don't believe the scriptures, hence they have nothing but their own opinions which they try to back up with scriptures. But they don't really believe the scriptures to start with. Hence they are lieing to themselves.
Very true. See my post above :)
 
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MercyBurst

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How does one who believes scripture is fallible understand its fallibility? How do you pick and choose which part to take seriously and which to not...Which part of the Bible is fallible and infallible? To me if you believe it is fallible, wouldn’t the whole thing be fallible?

Very true. Now let's take it a step further.

We believe the scriptures are the truth, but we can not know ALL of the truth, even from reading the scriptures. Hence we can disagree on some matters which are less visible.

However, we ALL agree that homosexuality is sin because we actually BELIEVE what the bible says. Now is there anyone that believes the scriptures are infallible, yet they believe that gay is not sin?

Hence, you see that all the gay mantra is just a bunch of made up garbage. They don't stand a chance against God's word. :)
 
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savedandhappy1

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John Boswell ["Christianity, Soical Tolerance, and Homosexuality", pg. 334], who was a Greek & Hebrew language scholar and Historian from Yale University, felt that arsenokoitai may have meant "male prostitutes capable of the active role with either men or women"

Despite his assiduous efforts, what Boswell’s historical scavenger hunt does not produce is any evidence whatever that authoritative Christian teaching ever departed from the recognition that homosexual acts are morally wrong. In the years before, say, the fourth century, when Christian orthodoxy more firmly cohered, there are significant gaps in our knowledge, and numerous sects and heresies flourished, some of them bizarre also in their moral practices. This is a rich field for speculation and fantasy, and Boswell makes the most of it. He has failed, however, to persuade those who are expert in that period. For example, David Wright of Edinburgh wrote the article on homosexuality in the highly respected Encyclopedia of Early Christianity. After discussing the evidence, he summarily dismisses the Boswell book as "influential but highly misleading."

http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3?id_article=4423

"Homosexuality Is Inborn."
ARGUMENT #1-A:
Simon LeVay And the Hypothalamus

In 1991 Dr. LeVay, a neuro-scientist at the Salk Institute of La Jolla, California, examined the brains of 41 cadavers: 19 allegedly homosexual men, 16 allegedly heterosexual men, and 6 allegedly heterosexual women. His study focused on a group of neurons in the hypothalamus structure called the interstitial nuclei of the anterior hypothalamus, or the INAH3.
He reported this region of the brain to be larger in heterosexual men than in homosexuals; likewise, he found it to be larger in heterosexual men than in the women he studied. For that reason, he postulated homosexuality to be inborn, the result of size variations in the INAH3, and his findings were published in Science in August of 1991.[19] This is the study most often quoted when people insist homosexuality has been "proven" to be inborn.
Response: This argument is exaggerated and misleading for six reasons:
First, LeVay did not prove homosexuality to be inborn; his results were not uniformly consistent.On the surface it appears all of LeVay's homosexual subjects had smaller INAH3's than his heterosexual ones; in fact, three of the homosexual subjects actually had larger INAH3's than the heterosexuals. Additionally, three of the heterosexual subjects had smaller INAH3's than the average homosexual subject. Thus, six of LeVay's 35 male subjects (17% of his total study group) contradicted his own theory.[20]
Second, LeVay did not necessarily measure the INAH3 properly. The area LeVay was measuring is quite small-smaller than snowflakes, according to scientists interviewed when his study was released. His peers in the neuroscientific community cannot agree on whether the INAH3 should be measured by its size/volume or by its number of neurons.[21]
Third, it's unclear whether brain structure affects behavior or behavior affects brain structure. Dr. Kenneth Klivington, also of SALK Institute, points out that neurons can change in response to experience. "You could postulate," he says, "that brain change occurs throughout life, as a consequence of experience."[22] In other words, even if there is a significant difference between the brain structures of heterosexual and homosexual men, it is unclear whether the brain structure caused their homosexuality, or if their homosexuality affected their brain structure.
In fact, one year after LeVay's study was released, Dr. Lewis Baxter of UCLA obtained evidence that behavioral therapy can produce changes in brain circuitry, reinforcing the idea that behavior can and does affect brain structure.[23] Therefore, even if differences do exist between the INAH3's of homosexual and heterosexual men, it is possible that the diminished size of the homosexual's is caused by his behavior, rather than his behavior being caused by the INAH3's size.
Fourth, LeVay was not certain which of his subjects were homosexual and which were heterosexual. Dr. LeVay admits this represents a "distinct shortcoming" in his study. Having only case histories on his subjects to go by (which were by no means guaranteed to provide accurate information about the patient's sexual orientation), he could only assume that, if a patient's records did not indicate he was gay, he must have been heterosexual.
Yet 6 of the 16 reportedly heterosexual men studied had died of AIDS, increasing the chances their sexual histories may have been incompletely recorded.[24] If it is uncertain which of LeVay's subjects were heterosexual and which were homosexual, how useful can his conclusions about "differences" between them really be?
Fifth, LeVay did not approach the subject objectively. Dr. LeVay, who is openly homosexual, told Newsweek that, after the death of his lover, he was determined to find a genetic cause for homosexuality or he would abandon science altogether. Furthermore, he admitted, he hoped to educate society about homosexuality, affecting legal and religious attitudes towards it.[25] None of which diminishes his credentials as a neuroscientist. But his research can hardly be said to have been unbiased.
Sixth, the scientific community did not by any means unanimously accept Dr. LeVay's study. Comments from other scientists in response to LeVay's work are noteworthy. Dr. Richard Nakamura of the National Institute of Mental Health says it will take a "larger effort to be convinced there is a link between this structure and homosexuality."[26] Dr. Anne-Fausto Sterling of Brown University is less gentle in her response:
My freshman biology students know enough to sink this study.[27]
Dr. Rochelle Klinger, at Psychiatrist at Medical College of Virginia, doubts we will "ever find a single cause of homosexuality."[28] And Scientific American sums up the reason many professionals approach the INAH3 theory with caution:
LeVay's study has yet to be fully replicated by another researcher.[29]
/
 
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tulc

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Hence, you see that all the gay mantra is just a bunch of made up garbage. They don't stand a chance against God's word.

Whew, glad you guys got this all squared away. :)
tulc(do you mind if the rest of us go ahead and discuss it a little further?) :scratch:
 
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savedandhappy1

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Patriarchs of the Christian Faith

Philo of Alexandria (c. 20 B.C. to A.D. 50), Jewish philosopher, theologian and contemporary of Jesus and Paul, writing on the life of Abraham:

"The land of the Sodomites, a part of Canaan afterwards called Palestinian Syria, was brimful of innumerable iniquities, particularly such as arise from gluttony and lewdness, and multiplied and enlarged every other possible pleasure with so formidable a menace that it had at last been condemned by the Judge of All…Incapable of bearing such satiety, plunging like cattle, they threw off from their necks the law of nature and applied themselves to … forbidden forms of intercourse. Not only in their mad lust for women did they violate the marriages of their neighbors, but also men mounted males without respect for the sex nature which the active partner shares with the passive; and so when they tried to beget children they were discovered to be incapable of any but a sterile seed. Yet the discovery availed them not, so much stronger was the force of the lust which mastered them. Then, as little by little they accustomed those who were by nature men to submit to play the part of women, they saddled them with the formidable curse of a female disease. For not only did they emasculate their bodies by luxury and voluptuousness but they worked a further degeneration in their souls and, as far as in them lay, were corrupting the whole of mankind."

Flavius Josephus, Jewish historian (c. A.D. 37-100), commentary on the history of the Jews:


As for adultery, Moses forbade it entirely, as esteeming it a happy thing that men should be wise in the affairs of wedlock; and that it was profitable both to cities and families that children should be known to be genuine. He also abhorred men’s lying with their mothers, as one of the greatest crimes; and the like for lying with the father’s wife, and with aunts, and sisters, and sons’ wives, as all instances of abominable wickedness. He also forbade a man to lie with his wife when she was defiled by her natural purgation: and not to come near brute beasts; nor to approve of the lying with a male, which was to hunt after unlawful pleasures on account of beauty. To those who were guilty of such insolent behavior, he ordained death for their punishment.

Methodius, bishop of Olympus and Patara (A.D. 260-312), commentary on the sin of Sodom:


But we do not say so of that mixture that is contrary to nature, or of any unlawful practice; for such are enmity to God. For the sin of Sodom is contrary to nature, as is also that with brute beasts. But adultery and fornication are against the law; the one whereof is impiety, the other injustice, and, in a word, no other than a great sin. But neither sort of them is without its punishment in its own proper nature. For the practicers of one sort attempt the dissolution of the world, and endeavor to make the natural course of things to change for one that is unnatural; but those of the second son — the adulterers — are unjust by corrupting others’ marriages, and dividing into two what God hath made one, rendering the children suspected, and exposing the true husband to the snares of others. And fornication is the destruction of one’s own flesh, not being made use of for the procreation of children, but entirely for the sake of pleasure, which is a mark of incontinency, and not a sign of virtue. All these things are forbidden by the laws; for thus say the oracles: Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind. For such a one is accursed, and ye shall stone them with stones: they have wrought abomination.

St. Basil, archbishop of Caesarea in Cappadocia (c. A.D. 330-379), the first canonical epistle:


They who have committed sodomy with men or brutes, murderers, wizards, adulterers, and idolaters, have been thought worthy of the same punishment; therefore observe the same method with these which you do with others. We ought not to make any doubt of receiving those who have repented 30 years for the uncleanness which they committed through ignorance; for their ignorance pleads their pardon, and their willingness in confessing it; therefore command them to be forthwith received, especially if they have tears to prevail on your tenderness, and have [since their lapse] led such a life as to deserve your compassion.

St. John Chrysostom, archbishop of Constantinople (A.D. 347-407), commentary on Romans 1:26-27:

ALL these affections then were vile, but chiefly the mad lust after males; for the soul is more the sufferer in sins, and more dishonored, than the body in diseases. But behold how here, too, as in the case of the doctrines, he deprives them of excuse, by saying of the women, that "they changed the natural use." For no one, he means, can say that it was by being hindered of legitimate intercourse that they came to this pass, or that it was from having no means to fulfill their desire that they were driven into this monstrous insaneness. For the changing implies possession. Which also when discoursing upon the doctrines he said, "They changed the truth of God for a lie." And with regard to the men again, he shows the same thing by saying, "Leaving the natural use of the woman." … For genuine pleasure is that which is according to nature. But when God hath left one, then all things are turned upside down. And thus not only was their doctrine Satanical, but their life too was diabolical.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/909796/posts
 
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Der Alte

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. . .[SIZE=-1]John Boswell ["Christianity, Soical Tolerance, and Homosexuality", pg. 334], who was a Greek & Hebrew language scholar and Historian from Yale University, felt that arsenokoitai may have meant "male prostitutes capable of the active role with either men or women".[/SIZE] . .

Boswell was, emphasis on past tense, a history professor, NO stated qualification in Greek or Hebrew. He was a homosexual who died at the age of 47 in 1994 of AIDS related diseases. Anyone who wants to follow him down that yellow brick road, be warned.

Too bad his book and this quote does NOT have any evidence, whatsoever, for whatever he "felt."
 
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Der Alte

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[SIZE=-1]Possibly, though I don't know of any. The fact is, people who believe in your interpretation of Scripture, applying the conditions of 21st Century Western culture to the text, believe that all homosexual behavior is sin. I do grant that it appears to say that unless one studies the background of the relevant verses, and takes them in context.[/SIZE]

How about applying the conditions of middle eastern and Mediterranean cultures of 1200 BC -- 250 AD, which I have documented?

[SIZE=-1]For example, the textual-critical approach to I Corinthians 7 clearly states that it condemns those who patronize the enslaved boy prostitutes of Corinth and those who pander them. Similarly, the effete, jaded elite of Rome are condemned for turning from straight sex to gay in a quest for new thrills.[/SIZE]

First, you are in error the text does NOT clearly state what you claimed, since the words "enslaved boy prostitutes" and "effete, jaded elite of Rome" do not occur in the text. That is your interpretation, based on something you claim is "textual-critical approach." Meanwhile here is irrefutable, historical, textual-critical evidence dating from about 50 AD thru 258 AD proving that the condemnation of ALL homosexual acts was not limited to "boy prostitutes" or "jaded Romans." In fact, the ECF never mention these terms. This "approach" is a 20th century homosexual invention.

I wonder which part is supposed to refer to boys and which part refers to Romans?

The early church fathers interpreted the N.T. scriptures as condemning ALL same gender sex acts; by ALL persons, male and female; at ALL times, in ALL places, and under ALL circumstances, NO exceptions. The early church fathers also interpreted the scriptures as condemning ALL homosexual acts, with
NO exceptions.

The ECF did NOT even mention, and did NOT limit the condemnation of homosexual acts to, “homosexual rape,” “temple prostitution,” pagan temples and/or pagan religious activities!

Evidence from early church fathers, Link

This evidence spans approximately 1500 years of church history, from 1200 BC through 300 AD.

[SIZE=-1]Also, keep in mind that we are to "rightly divide" Scripture, meaning that we are to study it deeply to learn what it actually says. Scholars who research into the language used, the customs of the time and place it was written, and so on, produce something other than people's self-interests.[/SIZE]

Then why have you repeatedly ignored my posts with "research into the language used, the customs of the time and place it was written?"
 
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Bianca87

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Infallibility of Scriptures Proves Gay is Sin according to the Scriptures


A logical argument is presented here.

People that believe the bible is inerrant also believe that homosexual behavior is sin. Are there any exceptions to this rule?

People that don't believe gay behavior is sin, believe the bible is fallible. If the bible is fallible, then their understanding of the bible is fallible as well, because they must rely on their own understanding rather than the authority of scriptures. Their agenda is based on their own self-interests rather than the truth and the authority of scriptures (which they doubt).

Hence people that believe the bible contains no errors are more correct in interpretting what the scriptures say. Their agenda is to preserve the truth contained in the scriptures, which they believe to be true.

All the rest are out to disprove scripture or revise scripture. Have you ever noticed that there is not a "gay affirming" version of the bible from cover to cover?
i'm a Catholic, so this doesn't addresses me very closely, but THERE ARE people who read the Bible differently and who care about contextualizing. acknowledge this and go on....
 
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MercyBurst

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Despite his assiduous efforts......,/


Dave's argument has already been defeated: He can not produce a bible translation that affirms homosexuality from cover to cover.

As with many, he runs away from scripture, then comes back with what God supposedly said. This is a doublethink hypocrisy, where scriptures are combined with worldly views to defend a belief system. This is spirtual adultery:

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God
 
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MercyBurst

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i'm a Catholic, so this doesn't addresses me very closely, but THERE ARE people who read the Bible differently and who care about contextualizing. acknowledge this and go on....


The issue is: Do they believe what they read in the bible?

If they believe the bible is infallible they read that homosexuality is sin.

They may disagree on things like calvinism, etc, which can be supported by scriptural reading, but they all agree on what sin is, and that homosexuality is sin. When I say "they" I mean those who actually rely on scripture for spiritual truth.

I do not trust supposed christians that believe the bible is a half-truth. They prove to us that they can not receive truth from the scriptures. They are hypocrites in my opinion. I'd say they are about half saved. (That's about like being half pregnant).

Homosexuals can not defend their position with a bible without making hypocrites out of themselves.
 
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Bianca87

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The issue is: Do they believe what they read in the bible?

If they believe the bible is infallible they read that homosexuality is sin.

They may disagree on things like calvinism, etc, which can be supported by scriptural reading, but they all agree on what sin is, and that homosexuality is sin. When I say "they" I mean those who actually rely on scripture for spiritual truth.

I do not trust supposed christians that believe the bible is a half-truth. They prove to us that they can not receive truth from the scriptures. They are hypocrites in my opinion. I'd say they are about half saved. (That's about like being half pregnant).

Homosexuals can not defend their position with a bible without making hypocrites out of themselves.
well, i can tell you how it is from my point of view: i don't even know what saved and re-born actually mean to tell you the truth, but if God gave me someone to interpret the scriptures, isn't that a sign that they are not this clear, literal etc for us? this is obviously a denomination conflict and there's not a lot to do about it, but am i an half-christian to believe differently from you about this?
 
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MercyBurst

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well, i can tell you how it is from my point of view: i don't even know what saved and re-born actually mean to tell you the truth, but if God gave me someone to interpret the scriptures, isn't that a sign that they are not this clear, literal etc for us? this is obviously a denomination conflict and there's not a lot to do about it, but am i an half-christian to believe differently from you about this?

Does God have the power to establish truth? That is the question. According to the scriptures, God has the power to establish truth ON HIS OWN without the help of man. This is the FIRST thing to know:

2 Peter Ch 1:

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
spake Matt 22:43

Now you might say that different churchs disagree on the nuances of doctrine. However, those that agree on bible inerrancy agree that homosexuality is sin.

Those that do not trust the scriptures for divine truth argue that gay is ok. They have no authoritative basis for their belief.
 
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MercyBurst

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well, i can tell you how it is from my point of view: i don't even know what saved and re-born actually mean to tell you the truth

Fortunately for you, Christian Forums has a thread that specifically answers your questions about being saved and born-again:

http://www.christianforums.com/thegospel

I highly recommend that you see that presentation for yourself.

In summary, John Chapter 3 is the heart of the bible, where Jesus explains about being born again.

The scriptures expound further on His doctrine.

Grace through faith:

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved

Conversion through repentence:

Acts 3:19Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.


Confession of sin after you are saved:

1st John 1:

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
confess 1st Cor 11:31
forgive Exod 34:7, Psa 32:1, Psa 130:4, Matt 6:12, Matt 9:2, Matt 26:28, Eph 1:7

I hope this helps you on your spiritual quest. Life is IN THE BIBLE. peace to you.
 
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Brieuse

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A logical argument is presented here.

People that believe the bible is inerrant also believe that homosexual behavior is sin. Are there any exceptions to this rule?

People that don't believe gay behavior is sin, believe the bible is fallible. If the bible is fallible, then their understanding of the bible is fallible as well, because they must rely on their own understanding rather than the authority of scriptures. Their agenda is based on their own self-interests rather than the truth and the authority of scriptures (which they doubt).

Hence people that believe the bible contains no errors are more correct in interpretting what the scriptures say. Their agenda is to preserve the truth contained in the scriptures, which they believe to be true.

All the rest are out to disprove scripture or revise scripture. Have you ever noticed that there is not a "gay affirming" version of the bible from cover to cover?
You guys are just peachy. Yesterday you said there was no such thing as loving monogamous homosexual relationships in the Bible times, and today you are trying to suggest the Bible condemns it.
 
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PinkTulip

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You guys are just peachy. Yesterday you said there was no such thing as loving monogamous homosexual relationships in the Bible times, and today you are trying to suggest the Bible condemns it.

There is no such thing as a loving, monogamous gay relationship in the Bible. It condemns homosexual acts. In order to be in a gay, monogamous relationship you would undoubtedly have sex. Therefore, the idea of a monogamous, gay relationship does not work.
 
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davedjy

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Non Sequitor.

The hypothesis says you can not receive truth from the scriptures if you believe the scriptures are fallible.

Do you beleive the book of Genesis is true? Adam & Eve, satan, the great flood, God destroyed sodom and gomorrah, Moses parted the Red Sea, etc. etc.?

If you don't believe this and everything else in the bible, then the rest is predictable. Prove I'm wrong.
***Get to know the facts about homosexuality:

http://www.opendoorcenter.com/myths_&_facts.htm



***Don't believe lies founded on false traditions:

http://gaychurch.org/Gay_and_Christian_YES/gay_and_christian_yes.htm



***Learn the truth about Leviticus and Temple idolatry and prostitution:

http://home.wanadoo.nl/inspiritus/The Mystery.htm



***Find a GBLT Affirming Church in your area:

http://gaychurch.org/Find_a_Church/united_states/united_states.htm


FACT: No one has the right to point a finger, calling you a sinner.

Romans 3:23 "ALL have sinned (missed the mark) and come short of the glory of God."

FACT: The only ingredient necessary for any person - homosexual or heterosexual - to have perfect peace with God, is faith in Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:1 "Being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ."


FACT: The person who condemns you based on your innate sexuality confesses his or her ignorance of the Biblical Doctrine of Salvation.
Ephesians 2: 8,9 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast.
Titus 3:5 He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of His mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit..."


FACT: Your sexual constitution has nothing to do with salvation.
Romans 10:9 "If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

http://www.opendoorcenter.com/myths_&_facts.htm
 
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