In terms of spiritual mechanics or dynamics, what does it mean being born again?

[tonychanyt]

I guess the "mechanical" behind it is a penal substitutionary transaction. Christ puts Himself in the place of the one who believes in Him and takes upon Himself the punishment due the individual believer.

Sure. What about the actual process of the Paraclete moving into your human spirit and dwelling therein?

 

[friend of]

Sure. What about the actual process of the Paraclete moving into your human spirit and dwelling therein?

I think that's more spiritual an occurrence. I think "mechanic" is a crude way to describe being ingrained into the Vine that is Christ.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Preamble: The following is not some abstract theory but my own personal experience.

What is the mechanism or the mechanical procedure of being born again?

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, except anyone be born from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God."

i.e., born from above or born again

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

The Holy Spirit (wind) comes to you to cause you to be born again. It is a real supernatural event that happens. However, you may not feel it in real time. I did not

If one is born again, he has the Paraclete Spirit dwell in his spirit/conscience forever.

1 John 3:9a No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed [G4690 sperma] remains in them;

i.e., the Paraclete

The Holy Spirit cannot dwell in the flesh, Romans 7:18a For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh.

The key passage: So it is with everyone born of the Spirit. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them. The Holy Spirit cannot dwell in the flesh. Flesh and blood can NOT inherit the Kingdom. Does that describe you?

 

[tonychanyt]

The Holy Spirit cannot dwell in the flesh.

Right, good point. See Where does the Paraclete dwell in me? and follow up there.

 

[fhansen]

Preamble: The following is not some abstract theory but my own personal experience.

What is the mechanism or the mechanical procedure of being born again?

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, except anyone be born from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God."

i.e., born from above or born again

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”​

The Holy Spirit (wind) comes to you to cause you to be born again. It is a real supernatural event that happens.

ESV Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.

However, you may not feel it in real time. I did not

John 14:15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper <Paraclete> to be with you forever—17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

If one is born again, he has the Paraclete Spirit dwell in his spirit/conscience forever.

1 John 3:9a No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed [G4690 sperma] remains in them;

i.e., the Paraclete

The Holy Spirit cannot dwell in the flesh, Romans 7:18a For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. Instead, the Spirit is connected to our human spirit, Romans 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

This is the promise of eternal life, John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

The Paraclete is a special operation of the Holy Spirit. He is the Indwelling Spirit. The grammatical gender of the Paraclete is masculine. He enables us to hear God. I can sense him in my spirit anytime all the time. Every time that I do, peace fills me. I was born of the Paraclete. He is directly and permanently connected to my human spirit. This is not some spiritual metaphor but a spiritual reality. Eternal life starts now inside us. The last time I experienced any doubts about God was back in the 20th century

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?

When we turn to God, as revealed by His Son, we're acknowledging Him as our God again, which is the right and just order of things for man. In fact, this faith and the union with God that it establishes, is the basis or foundation of true justice/righteousness for man. It means to turn away from myself and my "righteousness", and from the world and its values, and accept grace, accept God and His way, as the means of becoming who we were created to be. It begins as a seed, God's life in us, and is meant to ultimately grow as our purpose is being fulfilled, namely to love God with our whole heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbor as ourselves. This will reach its perfection only in the next life but if that's not the path we're on in this life, then we probably don't even know God, let alone been reborn.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Sure. Nevertheless, do you have the Paraclete dwelling in you?

According to God's word and promise in the Gospel, yes. The gift and promise of the Spirit is for all who belong to Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[tonychanyt]

According to God's word and promise in the Gospel, yes. The gift and promise of the Spirit is for all who belong to Christ.

-CryptoLutheran

What is the difference between the Holy Spirit and the Paraclete?

 

[Above & Beyond]

I'd have to say yes based on the fruit.

Based on what "...fruit..."?

Amen.

 

[Above & Beyond]

A chip off the old block is someone who has the same nature of character as their father expressed through doing the same works as them, so Jesus is the Son of God insofar as he is the exact image of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3), which he expressed through setting a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God's law, and that is the sense that we are born again as children of God when we are partaking in the divine nature through following his example. This is why those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not born again (1 John 3:4-10) and why those who are born of the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law (Romans 8:4-14).

In John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him, so the way that the children of Abraham are multiplied in accordance with the promise is not through having physical descendants, but through teaching people to do the same works as him in accordance with spreading the Gospel, and someone who becomes a child of Abraham in this way is being born again. The fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's nature so someone who is being taught to do works that express the fruits of the Spirit in obedience to God's law is born again in the same sense. Those who are born again have eternal life, so that is also why Jesus said in Matthew 19:17 that the way to enter eternal life is by obeying God's commandments (Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28).

Well... Thankfully... We have "...all scripture..." that we can turn to and see that our need isn't to obey God's commandments... But be found in Christ Jesus... Who has already kept/obeyed God's commandments... And by being found in Christ Jesus, all that He has accomplished and attained, becomes the possession of all who are found in Him.

We are not saved by works... We are saved by believing into Christ Jesus... Who is the grace of God towards man.

And a saved man only needs to behold Jesus in order to reflect Jesus.

Therefore... The constant continual need of an already born-again believer is not to obey God's commandments... But to behold Jesus.
By beholding Jesus... We will spontaneously, like a mirror, reflect who Jesus is, and what He has accomplished.

Amen.

 

[Above & Beyond]

...Spirit of God lives within him or her, enabling the born again believer to be in fellowship with God and enabling believers to have a helper within them to fight the sin nature that still resides in the believers.

...So the believer may not now live as the world lives. But that is only accomplished if they in their lives do not quench The Holy Spirit by still living as the world lives.

...In the actual Biblical times, the Holy Spirit actually had a physical presence. Like taking away Phillip to another location in a moment of time.

We need to be careful with this "...the sin nature that still resides in the believers..."... As this "...sin nature..." is not abiding within our new, born-again of God person... This "...sin nature..." is in our old fallen natural man... And is actually not just in him, but is the constitution of him...

Which is why there is absolutely no hope for our old fallen man... And why he was terminated on the cross in the death of Christ.

Yet... The question can be asked... If our old fallen man has been terminated on the cross in the death of our Lord... Why is he still a problem for us?

And the answer to this question is found in the proper understanding of how man's tripartite being, body/soul/spirit, related to God's economy of salvation towards man.

Amen.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Preamble: The following is not some abstract theory but my own personal experience.

What is the mechanism or the mechanical procedure of being born again?

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, except anyone be born from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God."

i.e., born from above or born again

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”​

The Holy Spirit (wind) comes to you to cause you to be born again. It is a real supernatural event that happens.

ESV Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.

However, you may not feel it in real time. I did not

John 14:15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments. 16 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper <Paraclete> to be with you forever—17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

If one is born again, he has the Paraclete Spirit dwell in his spirit/conscience forever.

1 John 3:9a No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed [G4690 sperma] remains in them;

i.e., the Paraclete

The Holy Spirit cannot dwell in the flesh, Romans 7:18a For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. Instead, the Spirit is connected to our human spirit, Romans 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

This is the promise of eternal life, John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

The Paraclete is a special operation of the Holy Spirit. He is the Indwelling Spirit. The grammatical gender of the Paraclete is masculine. He enables us to hear God. I can sense him in my spirit anytime all the time. Every time that I do, peace fills me. I was born of the Paraclete. He is directly and permanently connected to my human spirit. This is not some spiritual metaphor but a spiritual reality. Eternal life starts now inside us. The last time I experienced any doubts about God was back in the 20th century

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?

I think it is more of an awakening.

 

[Soyeong]

But be found in Christ Jesus... Who has already kept/obeyed God's commandments... And by being found in Christ Jesus, all that He has accomplished and attained, becomes the possession of all who are found in Him.

We are not saved by works... We are saved by believing into Christ Jesus... Who is the grace of God towards man.

And a saved man only needs to behold Jesus in order to reflect Jesus.

Therefore... The constant continual need of an already born-again believer is not to obey God's commandments... But to behold Jesus.
By beholding Jesus... We will spontaneously, like a mirror, reflect who Jesus is, and what He has accomplished.

Amen.

Jesus didn't set an example of how to walk in obedience to God's commandments so that we don't have to, but so that we would have an example to follow, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are found in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6).

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of our obedience to it, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically part of the concept of him saving us from not living in obedience to it. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we do not earn our salvation as the result of having done those works and we do not do those works as the result of having been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to do those works is itself the content of His gift of saving us from not doing them. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness by putting God's law on his heart, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

God's law is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so it is contradictory to believe in God's word made flesh instead of believing in God's word.

Again, in 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not born again, and in Romans 8:4-14, those who are born again of the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law.

Well... Thankfully... We have "...all scripture..." that we can turn to and see that our need isn't to obey God's commandments...

It is noted that nothing in the rest of Scripture contradicts the verses that I used to support my position and you did not cite any Scripture to support your position.

 

[tonychanyt]

I think it is more of an awakening.

Can you detail the steps of this awakening?

 

[Above & Beyond]

Jesus didn't set an example of how to walk in obedience to God's commandments so that we don't have to, but so that we would have an example to follow, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are found in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6).

Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of our obedience to it, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically part of the concept of him saving us from not living in obedience to it. In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we do not earn our salvation as the result of having done those works and we do not do those works as the result of having been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to do those works is itself the content of His gift of saving us from not doing them. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness by putting God's law on his heart, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

God's law is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so it is contradictory to believe in God's word made flesh instead of believing in God's word.

Again, in 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not born again, and in Romans 8:4-14, those who are born again of the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law.


It is noted that nothing in the rest of Scripture contradicts the verses that I used to support my position and you did not cite any Scripture to support your position.

Unfortunately, as is normal in Christianity, scripture verses are cherry-picked and presented outside of the context they were written in... Which is what you are doing, Soyeong.

1 Peter 2:21-22... "For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered on your behalf, leaving you a model so that you may follow in His steps; . . . Who committed no sin, nor was guile found in His mouth;...".

The "...model..." the Lord presents to us in biblical scripture is that of "...Christ also suffered on your behalf..."... And this is the "...model..." that we are to ourselves live by... Suffering on behalf of others.

And this is confirmed by in the verses that came before 1 Peter 2:21-22... Because the preposition/conjunction "...for..." tells us it verses 21-22 is directly connected to what came before.

The context related to 1 Peter 2:21-22 is found all the way back in verses 11-12...

1 Peter 2:11-12... "Beloved, I entreat you as strangers and sojourners to abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul, . . . Having your manner of life excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the matter concerning which they speak against you as evildoers they may, by your good works, as they see them with their own eyes, glorify God in the day of His visitation."

Absolutely nothing in the above-quoted scripture about "...walk in obedience to God's commandments...".

What is being said is that believers should "...abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul,..."... So that we have a "...manner of life excellent among the Gentiles...", and by this, counter any speaking against us regarding our being "...evildoers..."... And this is by our doing "...good works..." so that "...they see them with their own eyes, glorify God in the day of His visitation."

And this is why the rest of your speaking in unbiblical nonsense...

You said... "Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of our obedience to it, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically part of the concept of him saving us from not living in obedience to it."

First... Sin is NOT the transgression of God's law... Sin... Which was around long before God gave His law to Moses for the Israelites... Is separation from God... And sinning is the activity carried out in separation from God.

Adam and Eve were in sin and sinned when they separated themselves from God by ignoring His instruction regarding eating from the tree of knowledge... And the apostle Paul tells us that "...sin was in the world, but sin is not charged to one's account when there is no law..." (Rom. 5:13)... So sin is not the transgression of the law, the transgression of the law only gives rise to sin being accounted to a person.

You need to become clear on what scripture actually says about these matters, Soyeong.

Living by faith is a matter of living Christ Jesus as our life (Gal. 2:20)... Which is actually something higher than living in obedience to the law... As to live Christ is to live the reality of the law.

The Israelites could keep the law, and yet Jesus told us that John the Baptist, who he said was the greatest among men, was less than the least of those in the kingdom of the heavens...

John the Baptist could say only, "...Here is Christ,...", but the kingdom people can say, "...To me, to live is Christ..." (Phil: 1:21)... Therefore, the least in the kingdom of the heavens is greater than he... Whether a person is greater or lesser depends on his relationship to Christ... Christ is the deciding factor... The closer one is to Christ, the greater one is.

So your thought regarding our relationship to Jesus is in utter error.

Moving on...

You continued, saying... "In Titus 2:11-14, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we do not earn our salvation as the result of having done those works and we do not do those works as the result of having been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to do those works is itself the content of His gift of saving us from not doing them."

Titus 2:11-14... "For the grace of God, bringing salvation to all men, has appeared, . . . Training us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly and righteously and godly in the present age, . . . Awaiting the blessed hope, even the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, . . . Who gave Himself for us that He might redeem us from all lawlessness and purify to Himself a particular people as His unique possession, zealous of good works."

It seems that you do not understand that "...the grace of God..." that is "...bringing salvation to all men..."... Is the Person of Christ Jesus.

Meaning... Christ Jesus, Himself, is the grace of God "...bringing salvation to all men...".

And it is therefore Christ Jesus, Himself, that is "...Training us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly and righteously and godly in the present age,...".

And this is why, when we are born-again of God, we are translated/transferred into Christ Jesus, and He is brought into us as the Spirit who comes to dwell in our regenerated spirit.

It is by our being in Christ Jesus, and Christ Jesus being in us... That He is able to teach us how to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts.

And He does this by causing us to take His life and nature as our life and nature... Which is the reality of our being transformed and conformed to His image and likeness (Rom. 8:26 & 12:2, 2 Cor. 3:18).

Moving on...

You continued... "In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness by putting God's law on his heart, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith."

The writer of Psalms 119:29-30 was not clear about God's plan in Christ Jesus, and so was still thinking according to the law given to Moses for the Israelites

Yet... If you understand that Christ Jesus is the fulfillment and reality of the law, and read Psalms 119:29-30 (and really, all old testament scripture regarding the law) in this light, you will hopefully have a proper understanding of what is being said.

Moving on...

You continued... "God's law is God's word and Jesus is God's word made flesh, so it is contradictory to believe in God's word made flesh instead of believing in God's word."

Actually... You've got it backward... We believe into God's word by believing into God's word who took on the flesh of man... Try and properly understand the gospel as delivered in John 3:16...

John 3:16... "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that every one who believes into Him would not perish, but would have eternal life."

Notice... Nothing is said about believing the law that was given to Moses... What we are told is to believe into a Person... To believe into "...Him...", and not some written words.

And therein is the difference between the old covenant and the new covenant... The first is regarding the Israelites believing in the letter of the law... The second is in man believing into the Person of Jesus Christ.

Moving on...

You continued... "Again, in 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to God's law are not born again,...".

Here again, you are in error... As "...lawlessness..." in 1 John 3:4, is not speaking about the law God gave to Moses... It is speaking to being without any law... Which is what "...lawlessness..." means.

Lawlessness — which is man being subject to sin, as sin is outside of God — does not denote being without the Mosaic law (Rom. 5:13), because sin was already in the world before the Mosaic law was given. In 1 John 3:4-10, to be without law denotes being without, or not under, the principle of God's ruling over man. To practice lawlessness is to live a life outside of and not under the principle of God's ruling over man. Hence, lawlessness is sin, or, reciprocally, sin is lawlessness.

You are unfortunately in error in thinking that anytime you see the word "...lawlessness..." it must mean the law God gave to Moses for the Israelites.

Moving on...

You continued... "...and in Romans 8:4-14, those who are born again of the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law."

Sadly... You have completely missed the reality of this... Romans 4:13... "...For it was not through the law that the promise was made to Abraham or to his seed that he would be the heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith."

As the apostle Paul clearly stated...

Romans 4:1-5... "What then shall we say that Abraham our forefather according to the flesh has found? . . . For if Abraham was justified out of works, he has something to boast in, but not before God. . . . For what does the Scripture say? "And Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him as righteousness.'' . . . Now to the one who works, his wages are not accounted according to grace, but according to what is due. . . . But to the one who does not work, but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted as righteousness."

And again, here...

Romans 8:1-4... "There is now then no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. . . . For the law of the Spirit of life has freed me in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and of death. . . . For that which the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending His own Son in the likeness of the flesh of sin and concerning sin, condemned sin in the flesh, . . . That the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the spirit."

Both of the above-quoted set of scripture verses are as clear as scripture gets.

It's not about trying to keep the law God gave to Moses... It's about Christ being in us, and us being in Christ.

Moving on...

You continued... "It is noted that nothing in the rest of Scripture contradicts the verses that I used to support my position and you did not cite any Scripture to support your position."

Actually... I didn't cite any scripture because I didn't think I had to... But after reading your last comment I realized just how much in error you are and have cited scripture accordingly.

May the Lord gain you accordingly.

Amen.

 

[Above & Beyond]

Being born-again means exactly what biblical scripture tells us it means...

Everyone who is born-again is born of divinity...

1 John 5:1... "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been begotten of God, and everyone who loves Him who has begotten loves him also who has been begotten of Him."

To be "...begotten of God..." is to be begotten of divinity.

Therefore... To be born-again of God is to be a divine being... Which, in the case of a human... Is to be divinely human... Divine according to God's life and nature... Human according to the created vessel that we were created by God to be, which is composed of our body, soul, and spirit.

When a person is born-again of God, this person's spirit is immediately regenerated with God as its content.

Because of this, those who are born-again of God have the opportunity to cooperate with the inward-dwelling God for the working out of our salvation, through the renewing of our human faculty that is our soul (mind, emotion, and will).

And at some point in the future, this renewing will even renew (regenerate) our physical body.

When this has taken place, the full salvation of God toward man will be realized and manifested to all creation.

To be born-again of God ultimately means... To contain and express God... This is why biblical scripture tells us that we have the hope of glory in Christ Jesus... As we will express God... And God expressed is... Glory.

And this, corporately, is what the reality of the one church of God is... God in man and man in God, dwelling as one... The New Jerusalem... With God's desired eternal dwelling place, Zion, at its center.

May the Lord cause all His people to come to possess this truth, and hold to it as our only vision.

Amen.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Can you detail the steps of this awakening?

Interesting question but I think it is grace, an initiative from God. And we can accept or reject.
If we accept, we slowly progress through 3 classic steps : purgative, illuminative and unitive.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: State Or Way (Purgative, Illuminative, Unitive)

Stages in the spiritual life

www.newadvent.org

Not as simple as it might sound.

 

[tonychanyt]

If we accept, we slowly progress through 3 classic steps : purgative, illuminative and unitive.

Can you describe these steps with words that are from the Bible?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Can you describe these steps with words that are from the Bible?

1 Matthew 16:23-25
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

2 Ephesians 1:18
I pray that the light of God will illuminate the eyes of your imagination, flooding you with light, until you experience the full revelation of the hope of his calling —that is, the wealth of God's glorious inheritances that he finds in us, his holy ones!

3 John 17:18–21
“That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me”

 

[tonychanyt]

1 Matthew 16:23-25
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

2 Ephesians 1:18
I pray that the light of God will illuminate the eyes of your imagination, flooding you with light, until you experience the full revelation of the hope of his calling —that is, the wealth of God's glorious inheritances that he finds in us, his holy ones!

3 John 17:18–21
“That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me”

That's a long process for just giving birth or just awakening

Have you arrived at the end of this process yet?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

1 Matthew 16:23-25
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

2 Ephesians 1:18
I pray that the light of God will illuminate the eyes of your imagination, flooding you with light, until you experience the full revelation of the hope of his calling —that is, the wealth of God's glorious inheritances that he finds in us, his holy ones!

3 John 17:18–21
“That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me”

That's a long process for just giving birth or just awakening

Have you arrived at the end of this process yet?

Related to step 3.

God is love; whoever abides in love abides in God, and God in him. In this way, love has been perfected among us, so that we may have confidence on the day of judgment; for in this world we are just like Him. There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear, because fear involves punishment. The one who fears has not been perfected in love (1 John 16-18)