im very confused about tithing because.....

[medieval_lady83]

Firstly, I disagree with your understanding on what the tithe was. People didn't tithe money. Those that participated in agriculture gave food. And people have always received money from their labor (unless they were slaves). So to say that now we tithe with money doesn't really make sense. There are still farmers today. If tithing were applicable to us, they (and only they) should be giving a percentage of their produce/animals. That would still leave the rest of us not tithing.

It really is important to determine whether the tithe is mandatory for believers today. Whether or not you can afford it is secondary. If the tithe is not mandatory, then it doesn't matter if 10% is a good amount, that people should be able to afford in the west. If you would like to give 10%, cheerfully, out of the kindness of your heart, then I think you should do it. But there's no reason to tell others to give that amount. Also, in the west we have access to a better standard of living, largely through loans. We have cars, houses, college educations, etc because we are living on borrowed money. Not necessarily because we are wealthier than people in other countries. Even with access to loans, many people in the west struggle financially, and they cannot afford to give. Each person should give as they are able. So the idea that we in the west should be able to do something, I disagree with. There are poor people here as well.

My main problem with the teachings on tithing is that they are a part of the old testament, and they place believers under bondage and guilt. People are taught that if they don't tithe they are stealing from God, and they are under a curse. This is not the new covenant. I think it's important for people to give out of freedom, because they care for the needs of others, not because someone is making them feel like they're being disobedient.

 

[Sketcher]

If somebody's got loans to pay off, then that's all the more reason to take a Christian budgeting course, to get those loans paid off and learn how to live without going into debt. Debt and materialism are what cause bondage in this country, not the accepted teaching that we need to give some of our money to the church. Giving helps break their hold as well as helping out people who need it.

 

[medieval_lady83]

I agree that being in debt is a form of bondage, but so is living according to the OT law after Christ's resurrection.

 

[GLK]

A tenth of your increase belongs to God. If you keep it, you are stealing from God. You should buy your baby's diapers, food, etc. from the 90% that belongs to you.

 

[Sketcher]

I agree that being in debt is a form of bondage, but so is living according to the OT law after Christ's resurrection.

Which I don't do or teach.

A tenth of your increase belongs to God. If you keep it, you are stealing from God. You should buy your baby's diapers, food, etc. from the 90% that belongs to you.

Actually, 100% belongs to God. If you're a Christian, you gave everything over to him, past, present, and future. The question isn't "How much of my money do I give God?", the question should be "How much of God's money do I need to live on, and how much does he want me to use to serve others?"

 

[GLK]

Which I don't do or teach.

Actually, 100% belongs to God. If you're a Christian, you gave everything over to him, past, present, and future. The question isn't "How much of my money do I give God?", the question should be "How much of God's money do I need to live on, and how much does he want me to use to serve others?"

Yes, it does all belong to God but he is very specific regarding one tenth being taken to the storehouse (church). If we are able to give more then we certainly should. His word is very clear about that.

 

[george baily]

A tenth of your increase belongs to God. If you keep it, you are stealing from God. You should buy your baby's diapers, food, etc. from the 90% that belongs to you.

why don't you buy the diapers, and show what a good christian you are

 

[GaryArnold]

@Sketcher said, "It was the output of one's labor, and today the output of our labor is money."

Wrong. The Biblical tithe was NEVER from the output of man's labor. The Biblical tithe always came from GOD'S miraculous increase of food from crops and animals. The farmers made their income by selling and/or bartering their crops and animals. Wage earners did not tithe. Jesus did not tithe from His income as a carpenter. Paul did not tithe from his income as a tent maker. Peter didn't tithe from the fish he caught as a fisherman.

@Sketcher said, "Debt and materialism are what cause bondage in this country, not the accepted teaching that we need to give some of our money to the church."

The Biblical tithe was a payment. It had nothing to do with giving. Debt and materialism are what causes many pastors to keep begging for money. You say we need to give some of our money to the church. Keep in mind, born-again believers ARE the church. The money you are giving to the "church" is going for buildings, utilities, etc. etc. Building, utilities, etc. has nothing to do with the Kingdom of God.

Those who attend church services have a moral obligation to help pay the expenses by giving.

@GLK said, "A tenth of your increase belongs to God."

Wong. A tenth of GOD'S increase is the tithe. God NEVER said a tenth of man's increase is His tithe. EVERYTHING belongs to God. HE, not me, reserved a tenth of crops and animals RAISED ON THE HOLY LAND. Period. Nothing else did God claim to be His tithe.

@GLK said, "Yes, it does all belong to God but he is very specific regarding one tenth being taken to the storehouse (church)."

More lies from either ignorant or dishonest pastors. First, THE storehouse in the scriptures refers to a room used to store FOOD. Storehouse does not mean a church building. That's pure pastor lies.

Next, the tithe from the Israelites went to the Levites who lived in the Levitical cities, NOT to the Temple storehouse. THEN, the Levites were required to take a tenth of the tithe to the Temple for the priests. THAT is the tithe that went to the storehouse. See Nehemiah 10:37-38.

OLD TESTAMENT
Proverbs 3:9 (KJV) “Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:”

NEW TESTAMENT
2 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) “The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.”

 

[brittany111]

At church a few weeks ago the pastor said...dont worry about paying your bills....tithe and god will bless you....he went on to tell a story about how he didnt pay a certain important bill and god blessed him with more money.........but i have a issue with that....what about if my baby(if i had one) needed diapers?....do i not buy diapers and tithe the last few dollars i have......i have researched the new testament and from what i find tithing is not required.....i think everyone should be giving.....but miss bills and not buy diapers or food? and god will bless u....why not pay your bills...buy the things you need to survive and take the extra and tithe that....give to a charity....a homeless person......am i wrong???? i need some input.

Maybe you're pastor wasn't telling you to give to the church instead of paying your bills, but instead to trust God to provide your needs when you give. I know this sounds confusing, but I have found that God truley does bless a cheerful giver. In reading your post and the comments that follow one scripture comes to mind:

"Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Fatherfeeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life ? "And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well." Matthew 6:25-33

Our focus should not be material things (wants or needs) but on heavenly things (building our relationship with Jesus and being a witness to others). Of course we should pay our bills and take care of our children, but we need to also realize that what we have isn't really ours-it's the Lord's and He has entrusted it to us. While we focus on building our relationship with Christ and sharing His love with the world, God will take care of all our needs-physical as well as spiritual.


I would like to give you an example of this from my own life. Over the past year my family has gone through a very difficult time financially. In our neighborhood lived a man who was worse off than even we were. He often came to our door because He new my mother would share food with him. Even when our groceries were spares and we didn't know if we would even have enough to eat, my mom continued to find something to share with him. In my flesh (and thinking with my practicle mind instead of my believing heart) I would protest to my mom that we couldn't give that piece of bread (or whatever it was) because we couldn't afford to buy more. But, by God's grace we didn't go a day without something to eat. Sometimes giving takes a step of faith, but God is faithful to provide all our needs!

As far as tithing being Biblical I currently have no commet as the idea of it not being is new to me. Personally I give at least 10%.

 

[GaryArnold]

Sometimes giving takes a step of faith, but God is faithful to provide all our needs!

And God will provide all the needs of His church. If pastors had an ounce of faith, they would put their trust in God to provide for His church instead of constantly asking for money.

Teachers of tithing lack faith that God will provide for His Church, while at the same time asking YOU for money, and telling YOU to have faith that God will provide for YOUR means. Teachers of tithing are putting their faith in their own teachings. They don't practice what they preach.

I see a big difference between taking a step in faith that God will provide for my needs when I help a friend or stranger in need as opposed to giving to an organized corporation doing business as a church.

 

[buchalady]

Some preachers who usually proclaim grace will revert back to the tithe of the Law of Moses as a legalistic standard. To soften the legalistic aspect, they contend that it is a love-offering and that the tithe has been the standard for such offerings in all ages.

Say it however you want to, it is still legalistic.

The tithe was a tax..........an income tax. Paying taxes is not giving. If the tithe is required by law, then paying tithes is law-keeping. It becomes a part of a legal system of righteousness.

We have a personal responsibility to see that any means that we might have are used where it is most needed. The right kind of heart gives and expects nothing in return.

 

[GaryArnold]

The right kind of heart gives and expects nothing in return.

EXACTLY!

Giving to be blessed is not giving to begin with. It is trying to buy blessings. What many pastors teach is essentially teaching that God sells blessings.

 

[keepinitsimple]

Well, maybe they'll start a express lane where we can drive through..

One sermon made to order, two prayers and two blessings to go, hold the convictions..
Wonder what they would charge? hehehe

 

[brittany111]

And God will provide all the needs of His church. If pastors had an ounce of faith, they would put their trust in God to provide for His church instead of constantly asking for money.

Teachers of tithing lack faith that God will provide for His Church, while at the same time asking YOU for money, and telling YOU to have faith that God will provide for YOUR means. Teachers of tithing are putting their faith in their own teachings. They don't practice what they preach.

I see a big difference between taking a step in faith that God will provide for my needs when I help a friend or stranger in need as opposed to giving to an organized corporation doing business as a church.

I understand what you are saying, I too have an uneasiness about preachers who seem to use their position to get people to give to their ministry, but I have also been to small churches where the pastor was paid little, if anything and in one where the doors ended being closed because the funds for things such as up keep on the building simply were not there. This was not because the people did not give (just like any church some did some didn't) but the congregation was small and the people had limited means. I'm not commenting on whether or not tithing is biblical, but I am saying that giving is. Just like a job is God's way of providing many of our needs-offerings given by the people is God's way of providing many of the needs of the church.

 

[Sadalmelik]

the usa is the most giving country in the world, by far, in terms of donations of money, time, and other gifts offered for the less fortunate for those not only in our country, but for those abroad...while christians do need to support their churches in order for them to exist.....there is a line there, which should not be, and many times is crossed.

money taken in by a church should only go to pay the bills, and take care of the spiritual needs of the church members that make it up....it should not go for the pastor to by himself a million dollar mansion, and take a 6 figure salary, buy new cars, take trips, buy private jets, etc.....that is not supporting the church, that is preaching for a living, not preaching for God.....

if i see my church meeting the needs of the members of the church, and that of the community their in, i would support them with what i felt God wanted me to give....that would be listening to the Holyspirit, not listening to what your pastor says is the right amount....ie 10%, or use the money for bills instead, and give it to the church, this is complete and utter nonsense. it is not biblical, in fact it is downright contemptuous, and not right.

there are many churches who do right with their members money, their are many who do not, especially the larger they get, usually the more rich the pastor gets....which imo, is ridiculous, and if i saw my pastor pulling up in some brand new car, and rolling into his driveway of a million dollar home, i can assure you, that money i had been giving towards the " church bills", would come to a quick stop.....if others wish to support pastors extravagant lifestyles, then knock yourself out.....

just remember this.....it is not our money, it is all Gods, and when we have to answer for how we used it, and you tell Him, that your pastor just had to have that new car and he needed or deserved that million dollar home, the private jet, the vacations, etc......dont be surprised if your shown a picture of the homeless person you tripped over on your way into church.

 

[Sadalmelik]

And God will provide all the needs of His church. If pastors had an ounce of faith, they would put their trust in God to provide for His church instead of constantly asking for money.

Teachers of tithing lack faith that God will provide for His Church, while at the same time asking YOU for money, and telling YOU to have faith that God will provide for YOUR means. Teachers of tithing are putting their faith in their own teachings. They don't practice what they preach.

I see a big difference between taking a step in faith that God will provide for my needs when I help a friend or stranger in need as opposed to giving to an organized corporation doing business as a church.

and those here that preach from the ' you must give 10%' crowd, well why dont you give more than that, in fact, if you want to take it and your faith a step further, take up your cross, and give away everything, cause actually thats what Jesus tells us to do.....so sell all your material possessions and give it all away, and then, trust God to provide for you..... "you should give 10%, its your duty", (in the meantime, im driving my new car, back to my nice warm cozy home, of which i really cant afford, i will then order my movie, stuff my face with some pizza delivery, and then get a full nights rest so i can get up and have an early start to my vacation, that i of course rightly deserve....well, ya i could have tithed all that too, but what fun would that be.????) shhhhhhh

give me a break





Luke 18

18 And a ruler asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 19 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. 20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.’” 21 And he said, “All these I have kept from my youth.” 22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”23 But when he heard these things, he became very sad, for he was extremely rich. 24 Jesus, seeing that he had become sad, said, “How difficult it is for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God! 25 For it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” 26 Those who heard it said, “Then who can be saved?” 27 But he said, “What is impossible with man is possible with God.” 28 And Peter said, “See, we have left our homes and followed you.” 29 And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers[b] or parents or children, for the sake of the kingdom of God, 30 who will not receive many times more in this time, and in the age to come eternal life.”

 

[Sadalmelik]

Joel Olsteen--NET WORTH 40 MILLION--OWNS 12.5 MILLION DOLLAR HOME AND A GRAND PIANO

Pat Robertson--NET WORTH 200 MILLION TO 1 BILLION--BOUGHT A RACEHORSE FOR OVER 500,000.00

Ed Young--NET WORTH ? OWNS A 1.5 MILLION DOLLAR HOME(10,000SQ FT) AND A PRIVATE JET--RECEIVES A PASTORS SALARY OF 1 MILLION PER YEAR AND A 240,000.00 PER YEAR PARSONAGE

Rick Warren--NET WORTH 14 MILLION

Creflo Dollar--NET WORTH? OWNS 2 ROLLS ROYCES, PRIVATE JET, MILLION DOLLAR HOME IN ATLANTA, 2.5 MILLION DOLLAR HOME IN MANHATTAN.


disclaimer: these figures may be innacurate at present, got these off the various websites, and did not make note of date the reports were published, therefore the above individuals may have more or less as of this date.

please excuse my cynical nature, but while your baby is going without diapers, or you havent eaten in 3 days, and the electricity is shut off, rest assured, im sure if you call up one of these so called "preachers" and ask them for a meal, and a warm bed to sleep, im sure theyll send their limo right to your front door, and put you up till you get back on your feet.....


as for me, ill continue handing out money to the beggar on the street, and will donate my time in the from of volunteering and be a friend to those in despair, and in doing that, at least i know im actually accomplishing something, other than supporting these so called "followers of Christ"

 

[Gnarwhal]

Warren reverse tithes...

 

[Sadalmelik]

Warren reverse tithes...

ya, ok, and so when it comes to tithes, i should remove his name from list, but is his wealth an example of a man of God, or of a man after his own desires, and not after the desires of God?

you be the judge,ive already made my decision. just remember these verses while your deciding, remembering his bank acct, and the vasts amount of money he continues to rake in....

Luke 12:33
English Standard Version (ESV)
33 Sell your possessions, and give to the needy. Provide yourselves with moneybags that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail, where no thief approaches and no moth destroys.

Luke 16:13
English Standard Version (ESV)
13 No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.

Luke 22:35
English Standard Version (ESV)
35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.”

John 12:6
English Standard Version (ESV)
6 He said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and having charge of the moneybag he used to help himself to what was put into it

1 Timothy 6:10
English Standard Version (ESV)
10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.

Hebrews 13:5
English Standard Version (ESV)
5 Keep your life free from love of money, and be content with what you have, for he has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

Ecclesiastes 5:10
English Standard Version (ESV)
10 He who loves money will not be satisfied with money, nor he who loves wealth with his income; this also is vanity.

Isaiah 52:3
English Standard Version (ESV)
3 For thus says the LORD: “You were sold for nothing, and you shall be redeemed without money.”

Isaiah 55:2
English Standard Version (ESV)
2 Why do you spend your money for that which is not bread,
and your labor for that which does not satisfy?
Listen diligently to me, and eat what is good,
and delight yourselves in rich food.

Matthew 6:24
English Standard Version (ESV)
24 “No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.



that was 14 million and climbing.....

 

[Gnarwhal]

How much they make in and of itself isn't necessarily the problem, how they choose to use it and the lifestyle they settle into with it is the true test of character. On the one hand you have pastors who have a wardrobe full of expensive Armani suits and a garage full of Bentleys, on the other there are pastors with substantial income who give it away and advocate help for the poor, oppressed and down trodden. A stark contrast to a message that says being a Christian warrants having whatever you want coupled with expensive clothes, big houses and cars with six-figure price tags.