im very confused about tithing because.....

[laceyintulsa]

At church a few weeks ago the pastor said...dont worry about paying your bills....tithe and god will bless you....he went on to tell a story about how he didnt pay a certain important bill and god blessed him with more money.........but i have a issue with that....what about if my baby(if i had one) needed diapers?....do i not buy diapers and tithe the last few dollars i have......i have researched the new testament and from what i find tithing is not required.....i think everyone should be giving.....but miss bills and not buy diapers or food? and god will bless u....why not pay your bills...buy the things you need to survive and take the extra and tithe that....give to a charity....a homeless person......am i wrong???? i need some input.

 

[Cotjones]

At church a few weeks ago the pastor said...dont worry about paying your bills....tithe and god will bless you....he went on to tell a story about how he didnt pay a certain important bill and god blessed him with more money.........but i have a issue with that....what about if my baby(if i had one) needed diapers?....do i not buy diapers and tithe the last few dollars i have......i have researched the new testament and from what i find tithing is not required.....i think everyone should be giving.....but miss bills and not buy diapers or food? and god will bless u....why not pay your bills...buy the things you need to survive and take the extra and tithe that....give to a charity....a homeless person......am i wrong???? i need some input.

My Advice, Get a new church. Or start your own. Empty all your preconceptions of scripture are read it for yourself. Ask yourself what the text truly means. Don't reference your study with the words of sinful men. Buy your baby Diapers, God didn't make you to do stupid things so that you could command his cooperation. People praying for healing die everyday. Faith is not awarded with earthly treasures such as wealth, and health. I believe God's will is for us to take care of our families. Not buy your pastor a new Gold necklace. Check out a documentary created in the 70's called "Marjoe." It will change your life.

 

[Sketcher]

Stories like that are not uncommon, actually. God does help out his faithful children. You should absolutely be wise about paying your bills, you should also give. You should budget out your money so that you can afford to do both. If you can't give the whole tithe yet, work to that goal.

 

[His_disciple3]

My Advice, Get a new church. Or start your own. Empty all your preconceptions of scripture are read it for yourself. Ask yourself what the text truly means. Don't reference your study with the words of sinful men. Buy your baby Diapers, God didn't make you to do stupid things so that you could command his cooperation. People praying for healing die everyday. Faith is not awarded with earthly treasures such as wealth, and health. I believe God's will is for us to take care of our families. Not buy your pastor a new Gold necklace. Check out a documentary created in the 70's called "Marjoe." It will change your life.

if they are not to reference their study with words of sinful men, why would they listen to you or me then???
to the opening post;
I am not going to judge the statement your pastor made. unless I heard what your pastor said, I know one Time My wife finally got her sister to come to church, and the pastor said something about giving and her sister asked us about it after Church and She had completely misunderstood what he had said, even I have misunderstood what preachers have said before. So I would want to say surely a pastor didn't tell His people not to pay their bills, but again I wasn't there. with all our gadgets now aday"s. cell phones, cable and internet it is easy to say we have no money for church, and I am not preaching titheing but it does cost money to keep the Church cool or hot and keep the lights on and provide a roof over the people so give first to the Lord and See that you can't out give God, but put Him last and call out for Him when You need help! One preacher said that He would preach for free, but the plumbing would cost you. But I hope you have done the right then for you to do, which would be to pray for the pastor, first before you brought this out for evewryone to see.

 

[lithiumkat]

God tells us to be wise and to seek wisdom. And I don't at all think God would tell us it is wise to put off buying our baby some diapers if needed, in order to tithe that money. But putting in an extra couple bucks and sacrificing something unnecessary, like a soda, a bracelet, or a premium coffee I believe are definitely something that makes more sense.

 

[miamited]

hi lacey,

You ask what one should do if it comes down to diapers for a baby or tithing, but if I'm reading your post correctly you don't have a baby. We tend to often make arguments based on the very, very worst case scenerio that 'might' play out that we can think of.

Some proclaim that faith in Jesus alone can't possibly be right because, well, there's some old guy standing in the very center of the African/South American continent living in the trees like Tarzan who's never heard of him. I am always amazed by people who argue against seat belt usage because if their vehicle goes into a body of water they'll be trapped and die or if their vehicle catches on fire they won't be able to get out in time.

As for the first, let's leave it up to God if the man all alone in the middle of a vast continent will be saved. It's His job, although He calls us to try and reach that man and we should. Not you specifically, but those who have taken up the mantle of missionary/teacher to other nations and diverse places. You, however, you have the truth made sure in the word. The knowledge, mercy, compassion and love of your Creator has been made known to you, so you are surely without excuse. You won't find it a very good argument to stand before God on that day of His last judgment and say, "Well, God, you see, I just knew that there might be some poor soul out there in the world hidden away from all societies and cultures where he wouldn't be surrounded by people who had bibles and that it wouldn't be fair for him to be condemned just because he never heard the name of Jesus." I'm confident that God's not giving anyone a pass because they thought that His plan of salvation wasn't fair.

As to the second case, we all live by probabilities. At some times in our lives we make decisions based on, "Well, what's the best chances that something will work?" If one goes to college it's usually because they know that the chances of them finding a better paying job than they'd get with just a high school diploma are greatly enhanced, but there's no gaurantee. That same 'rule' of probability says that if you wear a seat belt, while there is some very, very, very, very slim chance your vehicle will wind up in a river or on fire today, there is a much greater chance that you might be involved in an accident where failure to have on your seat belt will result in increased injury or possibly death.

Now, you're asking what this possibly has to do with tithing? Well, as best you are able with the knowledge that you have, you do what God wants you to do! Let God worry about the things and the people outside of your purvue and don't expect that God is much interested in your excuses based on imagined complications that others might have. God asked of Israel to give tithes and offerings that supported people's ability to publicly worship Him. Paul wrote that pastors and teachers were worthy of support for their work financially. That money doesn't just appear from nowhere. It comes from God's people who understand the work that must be done and that we must provide some sort of financial pool by which this work can be done.

So, God asks you to give what you may cheerfully give. I agree that too many of our fellowships make a big deal of tithing in a manner that often produces guilt in the people. I'm also not necessarily convicted that the 'tenth', which is where 'tithe' comes from is a correct teaching. I find that the new covenant teaching of God's people supporting the work of Jesus' church is in understanding that monies are needed and that we should, if we love God and desire to be even a small part in the great commission, be responsible to financially support our fellowships, missionaries, pastors and teachers of the truth. But absolutely, you should only give as much as you can cheerfully and thankfully give. If you can't afford to part with one penny cheerfully, then keep it! It isn't going to do you or God any good for you to give begrudgingly and with an attitude of, "Well, I've got to do this."

BTW, it might serve better your understanding if you referred to the monies that you give to your fellowship as an 'offering' rather than a 'tithe'. Just the difference in the words turns your giving into something that you want to 'offer' rather than something you feel legally bound to 'tithe'.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[keepinitsimple]

At church a few weeks ago the pastor said...dont worry about paying your bills....tithe and god will bless you....he went on to tell a story about how he didnt pay a certain important bill and god blessed him with more money.........but i have a issue with that....what about if my baby(if i had one) needed diapers?....do i not buy diapers and tithe the last few dollars i have......i have researched the new testament and from what i find tithing is not required.....i think everyone should be giving.....but miss bills and not buy diapers or food? and god will bless u....why not pay your bills...buy the things you need to survive and take the extra and tithe that....give to a charity....a homeless person......am i wrong???? i need some input.

We're called to faith "not works".. There is no tithing in the NT.. To see how far blindness can go, even those that preach the grace only gospel(which is in error) preach tithing, yet, are the first to tell others to stand in faith...

God bless

 

[paul1149]

We are under no law or obligation to tithe. But God sometimes will lead us to give in ways that confound the flesh. Think of the widow who fed the prophet Elijah (or was it Elisha?) before herself and her starving child. The problem is when we make a law out of that kind of giving. If you impose law, you're going to introduce condemnation and confusion, which is exactly what we often see on this subject. I know people who actually went into credit card debt in order to tithe on their welfare checks. Yes, it gets that weird. This kind of bondage is not consistent with our freedom in Christ.

We are not under law, but we will have our faith challenged - and quite often, I believe.

 

[tturt]

Yeshua while on earth watched who gave and how much. Some things were established in the OT to be done. Musical instruments for example aren't in the NT but we don't have discussions about whether to have music or not.

But I don't agree with this pastor's presentation.

If Yahweh doesn't have our money then that's an area that needs to be surrendered to Him.

 

[keepinitsimple]

Yeshua while on earth watched who gave and how much. Some things were established in the OT to be done. Musical instruments for example aren't in the NT but we don't have discussions about whether to have music or not.

But I don't agree with this pastor's presentation.

If Yahweh doesn't have our money then that's an area that needs to be surrendered to Him.

Were you speaking ot this verse? Mark 12 (Blue Letter Bible: KJV - King James Version)

Jesus wasn't necessarily pointing to the amount of money given, but to her heart of love and faith in the Lord, being led by the Spirit in that love..
Which is still the same today..
As far as musical instruments, I would also say they are fine as long as it is done in the right spirit and not in pride..
The only point is when they preach and bind someone under the law, they bind themselves under that same law.. Now they are teaching not of grace but of law.. Where is grace seen by others now?
Something the Lord had given to me: The Spirit will always lead us to the cross, the flesh will always lead us away from the cross..
We always follow the Lord, never follow men..

God bless

 

[george baily]

At church a few weeks ago the pastor said...dont worry about paying your bills....tithe and god will bless you....he went on to tell a story about how he didnt pay a certain important bill and god blessed him with more money.........but i have a issue with that....what about if my baby(if i had one) needed diapers?....do i not buy diapers and tithe the last few dollars i have......i have researched the new testament and from what i find tithing is not required.....i think everyone should be giving.....but miss bills and not buy diapers or food? and god will bless u....why not pay your bills...buy the things you need to survive and take the extra and tithe that....give to a charity....a homeless person......am i wrong???? i need some input.

while the principle of giving unto the Lord is unrefutable and true, the request to put yourself in need is unbiblical, you have studied the scriptures and have found the truth,

tithing is as much old testiment as circumcision, yet todays ministers like to sell the gospel for a price, when it says don't muzzel the ox, they love to have a giant field to gorge themselves fat.

 

[medieval_lady83]

After learning what the tithe was in the OT, I decided that I am not obligated to tithe as a believer in the new covenant. We are no longer under the law. The tithe was not money. It was literally food items, set aside for the poor, the widow, the orphan, and the Levites. Sometimes the tithe was used to celebrate biblical feasts. And if I'm not mistaken, every 7 years, there was no tithe required. Also, as far as I know, only those who participated in agriculture were obligated to tithe of the first fruits of their produce. People who were of other occupations didn't tithe.

I read a book called "Tithing: Low-Realm, Obsolete, and Defunct" by Matthew Narramore, where he goes into detail about the tithe, and how it does not apply to those in the new covenant. You may want to check it out. It's a quick read.

Having said all of that, I do believe that if a group of believers want to meet in a large building, that has heat, running water, air conditioning, seats, etc, they cannot expect that these expenses will be magically taken care of. They should be willing to contribute to the church rent, utilities, and upkeep. That's not tithing, but I think they should contribute, if they want to have a place to go on Sunday.

But we are under a system of free will offerings. Poor people are supposed to receive the tithe. They're not supposed to be tithing. If you have to choose between giving to the church and paying your bills/buying diapers for your child, take care of your bills and your child. Those are your God given responsibilities. I'm sure there are some stories of people who gave their last bit of money to the church or a preacher, and then were provided for, but there are many more stories of people who have given their last, and suffered.

How many people do you know have had the windows of heaven opened as a result of tithing, even though preachers always quote this passage from Malachi to motivate people to tithe? God said this to people in the OT, under the old covenant. He is not obligated to keep that promise to those under the new covenant, because he never spoke it to us.

 

[Sketcher]

But we are under a system of free will offerings. Poor people are supposed to receive the tithe. They're not supposed to be tithing. If you have to choose between giving to the church and paying your bills/buying diapers for your child, take care of your bills and your child. Those are your God given responsibilities.

At the same time, there's a problem when you're making six digits and can't afford a tithe. However the tithe relates to us under the new covenant, 10% is a good, round figure that is easy to calculate, and is usually going to be sacrificial. It is important for the local churches to step up and feed and clothe the poor among other things. They can't do that if they don't have the money. It's also pretty disgraceful when Christians in countries poorer than ours will willingly give an even more than 10%, but many here can't bring themselves to even give that much.

 

[medieval_lady83]

Even if the tithe did apply to those under the new covenant, it still isn't money. It's literal produce that comes from farmers' harvests. That food is for the purpose of feeding the Levites, widows, orphans, foreigners, and other poor people. It is also used to celebrate biblical feasts, which we are no longer obligated to celebrate. The tithe was never money. So, if you participate in agriculture, you should tithe. If not, then it doesn't apply. Seriously, you/we all should do a word study with a concordance to see what the bible actually says about the "tithe". What it is, who it's for, etc.

Even if people in other countries give more than we do, that doesn't mean we have to do anything. We should give as we have purposed in our hearts. There should be no coersion or guilt tripping. God wants cheerful gifts, freely given.

Besides, a person can make 6 digits, and need all of that money. We don't know what their expenses are, what their personal budget looks like, whether they're saving for various items, retirement, large purchases (ie car). We also don't know if they are choosing to use some of their money to give to independent ministries that help the poor, like Compassion International, etc. We are told to remember the poor and orphans, widows, in the NT, but we are not told that the OT system of tithing is still in effect. Each person should give as they choose, and as they are able.

 

[george baily]

My Advice, Get a new church. Or start your own. Empty all your preconceptions of scripture are read it for yourself. Ask yourself what the text truly means. Don't reference your study with the words of sinful men. Buy your baby Diapers, God didn't make you to do stupid things so that you could command his cooperation. People praying for healing die everyday. Faith is not awarded with earthly treasures such as wealth, and health. I believe God's will is for us to take care of our families. Not buy your pastor a new Gold necklace. Check out a documentary created in the 70's called "Marjoe." It will change your life.

WOW! just utubed that video and Mathew 7:21-23 came to mind, I wonder just how many we see on TV are the same way, selling the gospel for money

 

[GaryArnold]

NO ONE, absolutely NO ONE pays the Biblical tithe today.

THE FIRST TITHE
Leviticus 27:30-33 defines this tithe as a tenth of crops and animals in herds and flocks.
Numbers 18 gives the ordinances, or instructions, for this tithe, and commands this tithe be taken to the Levites.
Purpose of this tithe: to support the Levitical Priesthood.

SECOND TITHE
Deuteronomy 14:22-27: aka The Festival Tithe - a tenth of crops, plus add to that the firstborn animals, and take for the yearly feast.
Purpose of this tithe: “that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always”

THIRD TITHE
Deuteronomy 14:28-29: aka The Three-Year Tithe aka The Poor Tithe - a tenth of crops, kept at home, and invite the Levites, widows, orphans, stranger to eat.
Purpose of this tithe: to feed the poor.

When God gave the Israelites the promised land, He RESERVED, for Himself, a tenth of the crops and every tenth animal. They NEVER did belong to the Israelites. In other words, the tithe was from God's increase of FOOD, not from man's income. It was a way to distribute FOOD to the Levites and priests who did NOT inherit any land.

No one, not even the farmers, tithed on their income.

The farmers made their income by SELLING and/or barter-exchanging their crops and animals but did NOT tithe on that income.

Today, ALL born-again believers are priests. ALL of us are called to be deciples of the Lord. No one of us is higher than another. Our bodies are the Temple where the Spirit dwells. According to the scriptures, priests do not tithe.

If I were you, I'd find another church.

 

[george baily]

NO ONE, absolutely NO ONE pays the Biblical tithe today.

THE FIRST TITHE
Leviticus 27:30-33 defines this tithe as a tenth of crops and animals in herds and flocks.
Numbers 18 gives the ordinances, or instructions, for this tithe, and commands this tithe be taken to the Levites.
Purpose of this tithe: to support the Levitical Priesthood.

SECOND TITHE
Deuteronomy 14:22-27: aka The Festival Tithe - a tenth of crops, plus add to that the firstborn animals, and take for the yearly feast.
Purpose of this tithe: “that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always”

THIRD TITHE
Deuteronomy 14:28-29: aka The Three-Year Tithe aka The Poor Tithe - a tenth of crops, kept at home, and invite the Levites, widows, orphans, stranger to eat.
Purpose of this tithe: to feed the poor.

When God gave the Israelites the promised land, He RESERVED, for Himself, a tenth of the crops and every tenth animal. They NEVER did belong to the Israelites. In other words, the tithe was from God's increase of FOOD, not from man's income. It was a way to distribute FOOD to the Levites and priests who did NOT inherit any land.

No one, not even the farmers, tithed on their income.

The farmers made their income by SELLING and/or barter-exchanging their crops and animals but did NOT tithe on that income.

Today, ALL born-again believers are priests. ALL of us are called to be deciples of the Lord. No one of us is higher than another. Our bodies are the Temple where the Spirit dwells. According to the scriptures, priests do not tithe.

If I were you, I'd find another church.

while I agree with your post, wouldn't it be wise to also end it on a note of being a cheerful giver to help out brothers and sisters in Christ who are less fortunate than ourselves, as we see from scripture this is where Christ really receives from us "when we give to the least of my brethren" you are giving onto Jesus Himself............your post makes it sound like you don't give anything......that too is as unbiblical as the tithe

 

[GaryArnold]

I guess I should have ended my comments with the New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. For some, $1 might be a sacrifice, while for others, even giving 50% of their income might not induce a sacrifice. In the Old Testament, ONLY the farmers tithed, and it was equal percentage (a tenth). The New Testament teaches the principle of equal sacrifice instead of equal percentage. Equal sacrifice is much harder to achieve, if not impossible, than giving ten percent.

Being Spirit led, I find myself giving even more than a tenth of my income.

 

[george baily]

I guess I should have ended my comments with the New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. For some, $1 might be a sacrifice, while for others, even giving 50% of their income might not induce a sacrifice. In the Old Testament, ONLY the farmers tithed, and it was equal percentage (a tenth). The New Testament teaches the principle of equal sacrifice instead of equal percentage. Equal sacrifice is much harder to achieve, if not impossible, than giving ten percent.

Being Spirit led, I find myself giving even more than a tenth of my income.

Now that is a complete and biblical post! I agree 100%

 

[Sketcher]

Even if the tithe did apply to those under the new covenant, it still isn't money. It's literal produce that comes from farmers' harvests. That food is for the purpose of feeding the Levites, widows, orphans, foreigners, and other poor people. It is also used to celebrate biblical feasts, which we are no longer obligated to celebrate. The tithe was never money. So, if you participate in agriculture, you should tithe. If not, then it doesn't apply. Seriously, you/we all should do a word study with a concordance to see what the bible actually says about the "tithe". What it is, who it's for, etc.

It was the output of one's labor, and today the output of our labor is money. Besides, what I'm saying is regardless of whether giving 10% is mandated under the New Covenant like it was in the old, we should still give, and 10% is what I believe most of us here in the west can either find a way to afford or work toward.

Even if people in other countries give more than we do, that doesn't mean we have to do anything. We should give as we have purposed in our hearts. There should be no coersion or guilt tripping. God wants cheerful gifts, freely given.

God does want cheerful givers, but 2 Corinthians 8:1-9 is why I disagree with your first statement. As far as I'm concerned, the generous Christians everywhere - especially those who don't have a lot - are good examples to be followed.

Besides, a person can make 6 digits, and need all of that money. We don't know what their expenses are, what their personal budget looks like, whether they're saving for various items, retirement, large purchases (ie car). We also don't know if they are choosing to use some of their money to give to independent ministries that help the poor, like Compassion International, etc. We are told to remember the poor and orphans, widows, in the NT, but we are not told that the OT system of tithing is still in effect. Each person should give as they choose, and as they are able.

If they're giving to independent ministries and charities, very good. But if somebody makes that much money and still can't afford to give hardly anything, there's a problem. They need to take a Dave Ramsey or similar course like Good Sense to get their money under control and bring God's word into how they handle it.