im very confused about tithing because.....

[Sadalmelik]

I understand what you are saying, I too have an uneasiness about preachers who seem to use their position to get people to give to their ministry, but I have also been to small churches where the pastor was paid little, if anything and in one where the doors ended being closed because the funds for things such as up keep on the building simply were not there. This was not because the people did not give (just like any church some did some didn't) but the congregation was small and the people had limited means. I'm not commenting on whether or not tithing is biblical, but I am saying that giving is. Just like a job is God's way of providing many of our needs-offerings given by the people is God's way of providing many of the needs of the church.

they should get paid little, there not there to make money, they are there to preach the word of God, and strengthen the believers faith, and draw the nonbelievers to Christ, and then let the Holyspirit do the rest of the work that needs to be done.

they should not be there to make a comfortable living, thats not why or what they were called to do...if you want to make money or make a comfortable living, then go find another profession, there are thousands of them out there....when one is called to the life of faith, money should be the last on his/her list.....to pay the bills of the church, and to make an honest and meager wage, as to have a roof over your head, your stomach full, and the electricity on is all one really needs to survive....i buy my clothes at target/walmart.....do you think many pastors buy there clothes there?

the preacher/pastor has an example for them already, His name was Jesus.....

He did not preach from a comfy church, complete with comfy seats, ac/heat, coffee and donuts, lavishly adorned buildings, He did not live in a million dollar home, nor did He dress in thousand dollar suits, He did not own a carriage adorned with gold, driven by a driver and purebreed stallions, He did not hoard wealth, if any He had had. He did not build up His material wealth, for He knew, and told us, that the wealth we should be building up was that for heaven, not of earth. that is the example pastors should be following, imho.....many preachers/pastors do not adhere to this standard imo

 

[Gnarwhal]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your general statement, but I don't agree that Warren should be lumped in with guys like Osteen and Dollar.

Some pastors income is simply a byproduct of a desire to share something compelling they've come to understand about Jesus (they write a book or make a film and it gains popularity because of the truth in it) and so whatever 'wealth' they have goes to those who need it. There are others though who set out to make a buck from the start.

 

[Sadalmelik]

ive said my 1 cent worth on what i think of the subject of tithing, each can have their own opinion, as they are entitled to....i judge no man, including the pastors i referenced, i only choose not to follow them, or their example, nor would i support them or their "church". judging is alone that of God, He will judge their hearts, i cannot read them.....i make my assesments based on their actions not only at the pulpit, but also behind it. and imo, these are not men christians should be choosing to follow as an example. peace

 

[Sadalmelik]

How much they make in and of itself isn't necessarily the problem, how they choose to use it and the lifestyle they settle into with it is the true test of character. On the one hand you have pastors who have a wardrobe full of expensive Armani suits and a garage full of Bentleys, on the other there are pastors with substantial income who give it away and advocate help for the poor, oppressed and down trodden. A stark contrast to a message that says being a Christian warrants having whatever you want coupled with expensive clothes, big houses and cars with six-figure price tags.

agree.

 

[GLK]

God's word says that one tenth of your increase is to be taken to the storehouse. I do this as an act of obedience.

 

[george baily]

And God will provide all the needs of His church. If pastors had an ounce of faith, they would put their trust in God to provide for His church instead of constantly asking for money.

Teachers of tithing lack faith that God will provide for His Church, while at the same time asking YOU for money, and telling YOU to have faith that God will provide for YOUR means. Teachers of tithing are putting their faith in their own teachings. They don't practice what they preach.

I see a big difference between taking a step in faith that God will provide for my needs when I help a friend or stranger in need as opposed to giving to an organized corporation doing business as a church.

thats a good point I never looked at it from that angle!

 

[buchalady]

From Cruden's Concordance distinguishing the kinds of tithes.

"There were three sorts of tithes to be paid from the people (besides those from the Levites to the priests) Num. 18:26,27. etc.

(1) To the Levites, for their maintenance, Num. 18:21,24.

(2) For the Lord's feasts and sacrifices, to be eaten in the place where the Lord should choose to put his name there; to wit, where the ark should be, the tabernacle or temple. This tenth part was either sent to Jerusalem in kind, or, if it was too far, they sent the value in money, which was to be laid out for oxen, sheep, wine, or what else they pleased, Deut 14,23,24, etc.

(3) Besides these two, there was to be, every third year, a tithe for the poor, to be eaten in their own dwellings, Deut 14:28,29."

In the New Testament, neither our Saviour, nor his apostles have commanded any of this.

 

[george baily]

I understand what you are saying, I too have an uneasiness about preachers who seem to use their position to get people to give to their ministry, but I have also been to small churches where the pastor was paid little, if anything and in one where the doors ended being closed because the funds for things such as up keep on the building simply were not there. This was not because the people did not give (just like any church some did some didn't) but the congregation was small and the people had limited means. I'm not commenting on whether or not tithing is biblical, but I am saying that giving is. Just like a job is God's way of providing many of our needs-offerings given by the people is God's way of providing many of the needs of the church.

a small church like that had no need to end, they merely had to meet together as they did in the bible, maybe divide up into smaller groups and each meet in houses on different days, the same pastor could of ministered to them all, yet for some reason the idea that bigger is better just never seems to loose its step

 

[george baily]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your general statement, but I don't agree that Warren should be lumped in with guys like Osteen and Dollar.

Some pastors income is simply a byproduct of a desire to share something compelling they've come to understand about Jesus (they write a book or make a film and it gains popularity because of the truth in it) and so whatever 'wealth' they have goes to those who need it. There are others though who set out to make a buck from the start.

I would of imagined we could look at the letters Paul wrote to the church in the same way these pastors want to sell information they received from God, did Paul say to the Corinthians I got some instructional theology I'd like to give you for just three easy payments of 39.99.........freely give as freely as you receive

 

[GLK]

why don't you buy the diapers, and show what a good christian you are

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus teaches that we should practice all parts of the law. We should show fairness, mercy and faithfulness, without neglecting the giving a tenth of our increase.

It has nothing to do with me showing what a good Christian I am. It is not about me. It is about Jesus! I am more concerned with showing what a wonderful Saviour he is. Afterall, giving is nothing if it is not done in the right spirit. IT'S ALL ABOUT JESUS!

 

[buchalady]

2 Cor. 8:

"We want you to know, brothers and sisters, about the grace of God that has been granted to the churches of Macedonia;

for during a severe ordeal of affliction, their abundant joy and their extreme poverty have overflowed in a wealth of generosity on their part.

For, as I can testify, they voluntarily gave according to their means, and even beyond their means,

begging us earnestly for the privilege of sharing in this ministry to the saints --

and this, not merely as we expected; they gave themselves first to the Lord and, by the will of God, to us,

so that we might urge Titus that, as he had already made a beginning, so he should also complete this generous undertaking among you.

Now as you excel in everything -- in faith, in speech, in knowledge, in utmost eagerness, and to our love for you -- so we want you to excel also in this generous undertaking.

I do not say this as a command, but I am testing the genuineness of your love against the earnestness of others.

For you know the generous act of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, so that by his poverty you might become rich."

The remainder of the chapter is informative as well and we can see the contrast in the Law of Moses tithing, and the followers of Christ and their generous giving of themselves and their means because of their sincere love for one another.

 

[george baily]

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus teaches that we should practice all parts of the law. We should show fairness, mercy and faithfulness, without neglecting the giving a tenth of our increase.

It has nothing to do with me showing what a good Christian I am. It is not about me. It is about Jesus! I am more concerned with showing what a wonderful Saviour he is. Afterall, giving is nothing if it is not done in the right spirit. IT'S ALL ABOUT JESUS!

if context means nothing to you, fine!.....but show me from scripture where the apostles or prophets or the pastors, the elders or deacons ever collected the tithe, anywhere in the new testiment will be fine

 

[brittany111]

a small church like that had no need to end, they merely had to meet together as they did in the bible, maybe divide up into smaller groups and each meet in houses on different days, the same pastor could of ministered to them all, yet for some reason the idea that bigger is better just never seems to loose its step

I wasn't clear for the sake of disclosing to much information. The denomination (I will not tell you which one) was upset at the state of the building and forced the pastor out. However, the people still meet for Bible study and many of the groups remain together metting at homes. (Youth met at the youth pastor's, women's group met at the pastor's home etc...) My example in this was to say that giving is important because it is how the church bills get paid, as well as how the church reaches other.

 

[GLK]

if context means nothing to you, fine!.....but show me from scripture where the apostles or prophets or the pastors, the elders or deacons ever collected the tithe, anywhere in the new testiment will be fine

I'm not taking this out of context. I tithe because it is obedient to do so. It doesn't matter who collects it, Jesus said to do it and I will do it. Jesus is not required to give me reasons that will fit within what I want.

I'm not here to argue. The original poster needed help and that's what I'm trying to do. If you feel the need to argue God's instruction, you will need to take it up with him. I would suggest that when you read the Bible for answers, pray first that God will show you his will for your life. Then accept what He shows you, don't argue.

 

[Banjo Jim]

Hey Georgie, here is some context for you:

READ Matt 23:23.

Jesus clearly address tithing and not to neglect it.

He talks to the Pharisees, condemning them for tithing to the penny but neglecting more important issues, such as justice, mercy and faith.

Then Jesus says that they (we) should focus on justice, mercy and faith, but not let our tithe be neglected.

Also, do a little study in Acts. How do you think they were funded and fed?
They were supported by the local churches. Local churches who collected tithes.

Really nothing here to debate. If Jesus said it, then it is expected to be done.

Or do you not believe in Jesus Christ? That might be the real issue and not tithing.

 

[george baily]

I wasn't clear for the sake of disclosing to much information. The denomination (I will not tell you which one) was upset at the state of the building and forced the pastor out. However, the people still meet for Bible study and many of the groups remain together metting at homes. (Youth met at the youth pastor's, women's group met at the pastor's home etc...) My example in this was to say that giving is important because it is how the church bills get paid, as well as how the church reaches other.

Ahhh! thats the mindset that the church was established as a tool to reach the lost, that it was built primarily to bring in the undiscipled, yet if you were to look at scripture, it was a meeting for believers (sure unbelievers were welcome) but the service was not geared for unbelievers, but to teach and disciple the believers, so that they would be empowered to lead the lost to Jesus, not geared to keep them in the pews, only able to invite someone to church, in hopes that the pastor will witness to them.

 

[george baily]

Hey Georgie, here is some context for you:

READ Matt 23:23.

Jesus clearly address tithing and not to neglect it.

He talks to the Pharisees, condemning them for tithing to the penny but neglecting more important issues, such as justice, mercy and faith.

Then Jesus says that they (we) should focus on justice, mercy and faith, but not let our tithe be neglected.

Also, do a little study in Acts. How do you think they were funded and fed?
They were supported by the local churches. Local churches who collected tithes.

Really nothing here to debate. If Jesus said it, then it is expected to be done.

Or do you not believe in Jesus Christ? That might be the real issue and not tithing.

So context of Jesus statement is :He is addressing the Pharisees, a Jewish group of men who are to lead the people in the Jewish laws and customs............and this applies to gentiles HOW?

So what your saying is gentile believers need to follow the customs of the old testiment priesthood and temple laws........thats interesting!

see I see people of the first church selling their possessions and goods and dividing them up amongst themselves, (very socialistic) ideally the first church required you to throw everything into communal kitty, and the seven were chosen to distribute food as needed. how come you don't follow this teaching?

because that also was not required as we see Paul addressing Annanias in the matter that it was his to give or to keep, but it was Annanias who decided to lie about the amount they received, and lie to God that they were giving it all.

your kinda missing the whole point! I'm not against giving, in fact I don't want to lose my blessing and tell you what I give, the principle of giving is true, it works, thats why people continue to give because God see's that money does not stand between them, the only thing wrong in the teaching about giving is the old testiment rendering that a tenth is required from believers.

 

[george baily]

I'm not taking this out of context. I tithe because it is obedient to do so. It doesn't matter who collects it, Jesus said to do it and I will do it. Jesus is not required to give me reasons that will fit within what I want.

I'm not here to argue. The original poster needed help and that's what I'm trying to do. If you feel the need to argue God's instruction, you will need to take it up with him. I would suggest that when you read the Bible for answers, pray first that God will show you his will for your life. Then accept what He shows you, don't argue.

Actually I did and His Word made it very clear, be willing to give it all, and that I can give even more than old testiment law requires, because I'm no longer under the old covenant, And in the new covenant, I'm sure you are defending your pastor who taught you this erronious false teaching of the tithe, the principle is true (THATS WHY IT WORKS!) but the law behind this teaching is old testiment mandate, its nolonger binding on believers just as circumcision is nolonger a required mandate......or are you of the circumcision group?

 

[GaryArnold]

@GLK said, "In Matthew 23:23, Jesus teaches that we should practice all parts of the law."

Wrong. Jesus teaches that THEY, the Scribes and Pharisees, who were still under the law, should practice all parts of the law. The Gentiles were NEVER under the law.

@GLK said, " I tithe because it is obedient to do so."

Please furnish the tithing scriptures that you are obedient to. Is it being obedient if God says to tithe from crops and animals raised on the Holy land, but you tithe from income you earn off the Holy land? Is it being obedient if God says to take His tithe to the Levites but you, instead, take His tithe to the church? If you think that is being obedient, think again.

@GLK said, "Jesus is not required to give me reasons that will fit within what I want"

But YOU change God's commands to fit what you want. You don't have crops and animals to tithe from, so YOU change it to money from your income. YOU change it to fit what YOU want. It's all about YOU.

@Banjo Jim said, "Also, do a little study in Acts. How do you think they were funded and fed?
They were supported by the local churches. Local churches who collected tithes."

Give even one scripture where the local churches collected tithes in the Book of Acts. It isn't there.

 

[NekaVon]

Interesting topic that I have always wondered about. Yes, according to the OT, we are suppose to tithe 10% of our EARNINGS. Food, etc. was tithe in the OT, because that is what their earning was. The NT doesn't speak about tithing, but yet, it doesn't say not to, either. I have started tithing BUT what I don't understand is if I'm suppose to be a faithful tither and tithe before I pay my bills..right...(YES)...my tithes are going towards what? I'm assuming it's going towards paying the bills for the church. Ok...so, if my Pastor is telling me to have faith and not worry about my bills, but yet the church bills are getting paid, isn't that an issue? I'm suppose to be able to go to the church for assistance, right? True enough I'm doing what the bible says, but when the mega churches are super fancy, the Pastors are driving around in expensive, luxury cars, and they are always preaching about Tithing, and I'm having issues w/ keeping my lights on or my car breaking down...isn't that a problem? Sometimes, I don't get it. I try to live right and in all honesty, God has blessed me when I wasn't a tither. But, I'll continue to do it, b/c that's what God wants me to do. I don't know...I know God didn't intend for church to be sooo expensive! I thank God where I am financially, but when I didn't have it, I was embarrased b/c I felt that the "tithing sermons" were geared towards me. At times, I didn't go to church, b/c I didn't have money to tithe...that's crazy!!!