im very confused about tithing because.....

[medieval_lady83]

If you think Christians should be living according to the laws of the old covenant, you need to reread the book of Galatians and Acts 15: 1-31. The only parts of the law that we follow today are those parts that are taught to the Churches - after - Christ's resurrection.

You know what's interesting, if you study what the tithe was and what it was for, and compare that to today, you will see a disconnect. The biblical tithe was for the poor, for the Levites, and for celebrating the biblical feasts. That is why God requires the tithe. That there will be food in his house.

What about today's tithe? What is it for? It is for pastor salaries, church employee salaries, the church building mortgage, the heating/ac, water, the sound system, repairs, and other things for maintaining the church building. After those things are taken care of, then any money left over is used for the poor, missions, and other ministries. Sometimes the money is used so that churches can broadcast their messages on the radio, tv, to keep up their church websites with streaming videos. The money goes to advertising, and so on.

Now, let me ask you, does that sound like the biblical tithe? If we were obligated to tithe today, which we are not, we would be obligated to use God's tithe the way he requires.

We do not get to redefine God's tithe. To do so is similar to the concept of strange fire. If God says the tithe is food, we cannot bring him money. Likewise, if God had said the tithe was 10% of our income, we would be disobedient to bring him 10% of our crops and cattle. God decides what kind of sacrifices he accepts. He accepted Abel's sacrifice, but not Cain's. But told Cain that if he did what was right, his sacrifice would be accepted. We have to follow God's commands exactly the way he tells us. If he says give food, we give food, or we are disobeying. Period. If he says give food for these purposes: x, y, and z, that is what the tithe is for. If we take God's tithe and use it for other purposes are we being obedient? No. So, not only are we replacing God's tithe with our own form of tithe/collecting money, instead of food, BUT, we are also using it for purposes he did not outline in his word.

Example: If your parents leave you home to watch your younger brothers and sisters while they go away on vacation, and they leave you $200, and they tell you to use that money to buy groceries for your siblings, but you use 95% of it to buy clothes for yourself, buy textbooks for college, and get an oil change for your car (all things that were legitimate needs), and you use the 5% to buy what groceries you can for your siblings, did you obey your parents? Yes or No?

The tithe that is taught in churches today is not the biblical tithe, and even if it was, according to Galatians and Acts 15 and many other verses in scripture, the tithe is not for Christians. Christians are to give free will offerings only. No compulsion. And, yes, I believe if they are able, they should contribute to supporting any building that the congregation may decide to use or rent. But that should not be equated to a tithe. (And I believe if they do chip in money to purchase or rent a building for church meetings, they should get together and decide as a group how much they are willing to spend on a building. Church leaders shouldn't just take out a multimillion dollar loan, and then stick the congregation with the bill. If the group is paying, the group should be a part of the decision making process.) The tithe was nailed to the cross along with all the other Old Testament laws.

Seriously, reread Galatians. Don't put your brothers and sisters under bondage of the Old Covenant.

 

[Trainlady]

I also find it very hard to believe that people cannot "AFFORD" to give 10% of their income. It's 10%. You mean to tell me that you cannot live on 90%.


I think it all boils down to not being unable to, but not wanting to.

You pledged. But a pledge is not tithes. I'm guessing the pledge is way below 10% correct.

The reason it seems as if I am cold or not understanding is that God has dealt with me with tithing and my life has been more blessed because of it. I was like those here who don't agree with it. But the reality is 10% is not a lot at all.

But one thing I do want to clear up is this. When God blesses people that pay tithes it is not always tit for tat. It is not always money for money. And I'm going to say this and everyone hear me out before you pound on me.

Many times in my life when I paid tithes, God revealed later that he blessed me in a different way than money. He kept me from major car accidents, kept me from carjackings, robberies, kept my family safe, kept me in my right mind, gave me peace, a peace that passes all understanding. He's given me 'favor' and for those of you who know what I'm talking about know that 'favor' is better than money.

I've seen God do awesome things in my life, but it only happened after I gave up my own understanding and logic. What I tell people is that God is not logical or else He does not deal with things with human logic. His ways are past finding out.

I implore you to try it. It seems hard, it may even seem pointless, but think about it, you have had problems since you've pledged, why not just try to tithe and see what happens, however, if you do at least try it, you have to give it in faith knowing that your God will work out every situation in your life in the way He sees fit. Remember it's not always money for money, but many times a bill collector giving you an extension or even saying you don't have to pay this month is FAR greater than a monetary value.

Ah yes, nothing warmer than sneering condescension from a fellow Christian. Truly you will have your reward, as the man said.

I probably should not respond to the likes of you, but others may be interested or be suffering in the same way as I am. I know this will greatly disappoint your need to feed your ego, but no, it's not "way" below 10%, though it's somewhat below. I increased it this year incrementally as I wish to work toward giving ten percent--not because YOU think I should, but because I've prayed about this with my God.

It's not a matter of not wanting to, Mr. Oh-I-am SO-Superior, but truly not being able to afford it. I am heavily in debt--see, unlike you, I did not live a perfect life and entered into a bad marriage that cost me a lot of money and left me a single mom. While my daughter was growing up, it was necessary to use credit cards and personal loans to make ends meet, and while I am in a better salary situation now, I still have heavy debt as well as the expenses of helping to send my child through college now so that she can have a better shot than I. I don't own or need some of the material things that others have, such as a dishwasher or a microwave, and my money is budgeted pretty tightly. I eat as cheaply as possible and buy work clothing on sale and wear it until it wears out. I drive a 2001 car that has 108,000 miles on it.

I'm glad God has blessed you. He has blessed me, as well. I am just having some trouble making ends meet at this time and it upsets me that what I promised out of my income to God I am not able to give at the moment.

Carry on with your stomping on kittens, tripping of the blind and lame, and mockery of your fellow Christians, sir. As I said, truly you shall have your reward.

I'm sorry I bothered to post here. I won't make that mistake again.

 

[Gnarwhal]

 

[GaryArnold]

I am just having some trouble making ends meet at this time and it upsets me that what I promised out of my income to God I am not able to give at the moment.

God knows your circumstances, and He fully understands. God also knows your heart, and that when you made the pledge, you had the right intentions.

I am 100% against pastors asking their congregation to make pledges for the very reason you are now experiencing. I believe it is wrong to ask for pledges when none of us knows the future. Anything can happen that can make it impossible to keep that pledge, and then for some, it causes guilty feelings.

A better way would maybe be to ask the members to state their giving goals. Still better, since giving is between the individual and God, no pastor should ask anyone to give them a written statement as to how much they plan to give. It is none of the pastors business how much one gives.

I believe pastors do this to put pressure on their members. No one needs that type of pressure. Some pastors will give a very emotional sermon just to set the stage for asking for money.

 

[Trainlady]

God knows your circumstances, and He fully understands. God also knows your heart, and that when you made the pledge, you had the right intentions.

I am 100% against pastors asking their congregation to make pledges for the very reason you are now experiencing. I believe it is wrong to ask for pledges when none of us knows the future. Anything can happen that can make it impossible to keep that pledge, and then for some, it causes guilty feelings.

A better way would maybe be to ask the members to state their giving goals. Still better, since giving is between the individual and God, no pastor should ask anyone to give them a written statement as to how much they plan to give. It is none of the pastors business how much one gives.

I believe pastors do this to put pressure on their members. No one needs that type of pressure. Some pastors will give a very emotional sermon just to set the stage for asking for money.

Thank you for what you said in the first sentence.

The pastors did not ask for the money and no one put pressure on anyone. At the beginning of the year we have a stewardship campaign and ask people to pray about what they can give. I thought all churches did something similar. I do like the terminology of "goals" rather than pledges, thanks. How do you run your churches without a budget? We are a very small church with two part-time clergy who only receive a housing allowance. We have to have some kind of budget--there is heat and electricity to pay for, for example. Maybe 30 - 40 people attend regularly. No one is rich. At least four people are out of work right now. Others are elderly. We do two or three fundraisers a year to help make ends meet (dinners, rummage sale). The church was built in 1872, so it has needed repair, but fortunately we have a couple of men who are handy who do what they can do without having to call in contractors.

I have a better job than most of my fellow congregants, and I wanted to do more. I am disappointed that it's not working out.

 

[GaryArnold]

I'm glad you weren't pressured to make your pledge. I have attended more than one church that asked for 12-month pledges. In those churches I always pledge lower than I plan to give just in case.

I agree that a church needs a budget. Bills have to be paid. This can present a real challenge to a small church. But then maybe man isn't setting up local churches the way God wants. I believe, at least in areas I am familiar with, there may be too many churches and that maybe some should combine. I have attended several churches where about half the seats are empty. Why so many small churches? For an example, why not combine four small churches, keep one pastor full time IF necessary, and let the other three pastors get another job and merely help out part time. Problem is, too many pastors of small churches dream of having a mega church someday.

I really believe that IF things are done God's way, HE will take care of the finances one way or another. If a local church (or even a mega church) is not making it financially, then I believe they are not following God's wishes.

 

[Trainlady]

I'm glad you weren't pressured to make your pledge. I have attended more than one church that asked for 12-month pledges. In those churches I always pledge lower than I plan to give just in case.

I agree that a church needs a budget. Bills have to be paid. This can present a real challenge to a small church. But then maybe man isn't setting up local churches the way God wants. I believe, at least in areas I am familiar with, there may be too many churches and that maybe some should combine. I have attended several churches where about half the seats are empty. Why so many small churches? For an example, why not combine four small churches, keep one pastor full time IF necessary, and let the other three pastors get another job and merely help out part time. Problem is, too many pastors of small churches dream of having a mega church someday.

I really believe that IF things are done God's way, HE will take care of the finances one way or another. If a local church (or even a mega church) is not making it financially, then I believe they are not following God's wishes.

For a small church, we do a lot to help others and the community.

My pastors (priests, actually, we are Episcopalian) don't dream of having mega-churches, lol. One is a retired Army chaplain in his 70's and the other was raised in Italy to become a Catholic priest, came to the US, quit the priesthood and went into the corporate world (and married). He became an Episcopal priest after he retired. He's in his late 60's. They are both wonderful, very spiritual preachers. Neither one gets a salary, just a small housing allowance.

On the other hand, I grew up in the Reformed Church. 100 years ago, a church had split into two churches because one wanted services in Dutch and the other in English (as the younger generation grew up.) A century later, both churches were struggling financially and everyone spoke English, so they sold both buildings and built one church and re-combined.

As I said, my church building is about 140 years old. It is a tiny brown stone building with a small church hall and kitchen that were added on later. The sanctuary doesn't hold many more than the 30 or 40 or so who show up on Sunday morning. There's a bigger (and older - pre-dates the Revolution) Episcopal church a couple of miles up the street. Apparently before paved roads, it was difficult to get to that church in rainy or snowy weather, so they built this little one for the people who lived in the area and couldn't make it to the other.

We do a lot for a small church, and because it's so small, it's very warm and accepting and there are none of the cliques and judgmentalism that you find often in bigger churches. For Lent we have a project going to buy bibles for children in Uganda, and we join forces with another small Episcopal parish to feed the homeless, etc., in an area drop-in center. Tomorrow I'm going there to distribute coats and clothing, as a matter of fact.

I love this little church and in the 18 months or so since I found it, I have grown in my own faith and in my commitment to service. There is a spirit there that we all share, and none of us who are part of this place wants to lose it.

 

[GaryArnold]

Sounds like you go to the type of church I would like to attend. I have found I prefer the smaller churches where the pastor gets to know everyone. It's more like a family.

 

[Serving GOD]

At church a few weeks ago the pastor said...dont worry about paying your bills....tithe and god will bless you....he went on to tell a story about how he didnt pay a certain important bill and god blessed him with more money.........but i have a issue with that....what about if my baby(if i had one) needed diapers?....do i not buy diapers and tithe the last few dollars i have......i have researched the new testament and from what i find tithing is not required.....i think everyone should be giving.....but miss bills and not buy diapers or food? and god will bless u....why not pay your bills...buy the things you need to survive and take the extra and tithe that....give to a charity....a homeless person......am i wrong???? i need some input.

The Bible says to take all your tithes at the end of eaxeyear an feast with your family. If U have no family feast with your friends..Does GOD not give us strength to work so we can pay our bills an care for our family..the one 2ho told U to give your money to him at this so called building instead if paying bills or buying diapers is wrong.. see how false wittiness can teick GODS children..Shame on him. I won't call him a oastir because he is not. He is like the evil one a false prophet..May GOD guide U in each step of your life..

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

At church a few weeks ago the pastor said...dont worry about paying your bills....tithe and god will bless you....he went on to tell a story about how he didnt pay a certain important bill and god blessed him with more money.........but i have a issue with that....what about if my baby(if i had one) needed diapers?....do i not buy diapers and tithe the last few dollars i have......i have researched the new testament and from what i find tithing is not required.....i think everyone should be giving.....but miss bills and not buy diapers or food? and god will bless u....why not pay your bills...buy the things you need to survive and take the extra and tithe that....give to a charity....a homeless person......am i wrong???? i need some input.

You work at the level of the faith you are at right now. We tithe and give freely and have been very blessed over time, but at the beginning, it's definitely a faith thing to just decide to trust God with your finances. I remember one time I gave $4, because that is all I had. And the Lord blessed me. But you do have to use common sense.

I will say that a pastor should not be routinely emphasizing tithing or giving. That means he is not in faith himself that the Lord will pay the bills for the church. Do not feel pressured, ever.

The Bible says we are to store up something as we prosper and give freely and NOT under compulsion. Our church has boxes and you insert something when you feel like it (or give online). None of this pressure stuff.

I think you are overthinking this. But if you believe the Lord would have you tithe, then you just do it, regularly, as if you are paying a bill. It's only between you and the Lord.

 

[Billy Evmur]

Put God FIRST, so many pay their bills first then give to God from the left overs.

God does not spect anyone to give what they haven't got. Decide how much you want to give and be faithful in that.

People try very hard but they can't take prosperity out of the gospel. "Give and it will be given you again good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over will men give into your bosom. For with the measure you meted shall it be meted unto you again"

He who sows sparingly shall also reap sparingly, he who sows abundantly shall also reap abundantly.

These scriptures make some religious folk hopping mad, "we shouldn't give to get back" they cry

Well try telling the farmer to plough and sow but expect no crop...God wants His people to prosper.

 

[RRep]

At church a few weeks ago the pastor said...dont worry about paying your bills....tithe and god will bless you....he went on to tell a story about how he didnt pay a certain important bill and god blessed him with more money.........but i have a issue with that....what about if my baby(if i had one) needed diapers?....do i not buy diapers and tithe the last few dollars i have......i have researched the new testament and from what i find tithing is not required.....i think everyone should be giving.....but miss bills and not buy diapers or food? and god will bless u....why not pay your bills...buy the things you need to survive and take the extra and tithe that....give to a charity....a homeless person......am i wrong???? i need some input.

tithing is not biblical it means a 10th. The Jews gave a 10th of their fields growth. To the priest because the family of Moses and Aron did not get land. They had to service God. If a Pastor pulls the "Well Abraham gave a 10th of His things to Melkesadk" First of all Abraham was greedy to only give 10 percent He was a wealthy man of flocks and herds and of lands as far as the eye could see. Abram really only gave a free will offering.
If you join a church read what they expect of the flock.
I do not belong to a building because of this miss use, of scripture.
I will settle on a free will offering. But Jesus does the Witnessing of the Good news through me. So I do not feel ashamed to not give money. I feel people give money so they can ignore the sprit telling them to witness.

 

[RRep]

Stories like that are not uncommon, actually. God does help out his faithful children. You should absolutely be wise about paying your bills, you should also give. You should budget out your money so that you can afford to do both. If you can't give the whole tithe yet, work to that goal.

thumbs down to you sir

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

At church a few weeks ago the pastor said...dont worry about paying your bills....tithe and god will bless you....he went on to tell a story about how he didnt pay a certain important bill and god blessed him with more money.........but i have a issue with that....what about if my baby(if i had one) needed diapers?....do i not buy diapers and tithe the last few dollars i have......i have researched the new testament and from what i find tithing is not required.....i think everyone should be giving.....but miss bills and not buy diapers or food? and god will bless u....why not pay your bills...buy the things you need to survive and take the extra and tithe that....give to a charity....a homeless person......am i wrong???? i need some input.

In seeking the truth from Yahweh, since men and man's rules are so disturbing, oppressive, deceitful, and wrong,
you are not wrong !
Keep looking to Yahweh (God) by faith in Jesus Himself, as He Says,
and
as you have been looking to Him in Scripture
keep doing so and trust Him.

(don't trust greedy preachers who do anything to talk the poor out of their money, unrighteously)

 

[RRep]

hi lacey,

You ask what one should do if it comes down to diapers for a baby or tithing, but if I'm reading your post correctly you don't have a baby. We tend to often make arguments based on the very, very worst case scenerio that 'might' play out that we can think of.

Some proclaim that faith in Jesus alone can't possibly be right because, well, there's some old guy standing in the very center of the African/South American continent living in the trees like Tarzan who's never heard of him. I am always amazed by people who argue against seat belt usage because if their vehicle goes into a body of water they'll be trapped and die or if their vehicle catches on fire they won't be able to get out in time.

As for the first, let's leave it up to God if the man all alone in the middle of a vast continent will be saved. It's His job, although He calls us to try and reach that man and we should. Not you specifically, but those who have taken up the mantle of missionary/teacher to other nations and diverse places. You, however, you have the truth made sure in the word. The knowledge, mercy, compassion and love of your Creator has been made known to you, so you are surely without excuse. You won't find it a very good argument to stand before God on that day of His last judgment and say, "Well, God, you see, I just knew that there might be some poor soul out there in the world hidden away from all societies and cultures where he wouldn't be surrounded by people who had bibles and that it wouldn't be fair for him to be condemned just because he never heard the name of Jesus." I'm confident that God's not giving anyone a pass because they thought that His plan of salvation wasn't fair.

As to the second case, we all live by probabilities. At some times in our lives we make decisions based on, "Well, what's the best chances that something will work?" If one goes to college it's usually because they know that the chances of them finding a better paying job than they'd get with just a high school diploma are greatly enhanced, but there's no gaurantee. That same 'rule' of probability says that if you wear a seat belt, while there is some very, very, very, very slim chance your vehicle will wind up in a river or on fire today, there is a much greater chance that you might be involved in an accident where failure to have on your seat belt will result in increased injury or possibly death.

Now, you're asking what this possibly has to do with tithing? Well, as best you are able with the knowledge that you have, you do what God wants you to do! Let God worry about the things and the people outside of your purvue and don't expect that God is much interested in your excuses based on imagined complications that others might have. God asked of Israel to give tithes and offerings that supported people's ability to publicly worship Him. Paul wrote that pastors and teachers were worthy of support for their work financially. That money doesn't just appear from nowhere. It comes from God's people who understand the work that must be done and that we must provide some sort of financial pool by which this work can be done.

So, God asks you to give what you may cheerfully give. I agree that too many of our fellowships make a big deal of tithing in a manner that often produces guilt in the people. I'm also not necessarily convicted that the 'tenth', which is where 'tithe' comes from is a correct teaching. I find that the new covenant teaching of God's people supporting the work of Jesus' church is in understanding that monies are needed and that we should, if we love God and desire to be even a small part in the great commission, be responsible to financially support our fellowships, missionaries, pastors and teachers of the truth. But absolutely, you should only give as much as you can cheerfully and thankfully give. If you can't afford to part with one penny cheerfully, then keep it! It isn't going to do you or God any good for you to give begrudgingly and with an attitude of, "Well, I've got to do this."

BTW, it might serve better your understanding if you referred to the monies that you give to your fellowship as an 'offering' rather than a 'tithe'. Just the difference in the words turns your giving into something that you want to 'offer' rather than something you feel legally bound to 'tithe'.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

nice one Ted turn the meaning of tithe into offering lol. Get out of that church. get on the internet a witness for Jesus. 1 corinth 15 1-4

 

[RRep]

hi lacey,

You ask what one should do if it comes down to diapers for a baby or tithing, but if I'm reading your post correctly you don't have a baby. We tend to often make arguments based on the very, very worst case scenerio that 'might' play out that we can think of.

Some proclaim that faith in Jesus alone can't possibly be right because, well, there's some old guy standing in the very center of the African/South American continent living in the trees like Tarzan who's never heard of him. I am always amazed by people who argue against seat belt usage because if their vehicle goes into a body of water they'll be trapped and die or if their vehicle catches on fire they won't be able to get out in time.

As for the first, let's leave it up to God if the man all alone in the middle of a vast continent will be saved. It's His job, although He calls us to try and reach that man and we should. Not you specifically, but those who have taken up the mantle of missionary/teacher to other nations and diverse places. You, however, you have the truth made sure in the word. The knowledge, mercy, compassion and love of your Creator has been made known to you, so you are surely without excuse. You won't find it a very good argument to stand before God on that day of His last judgment and say, "Well, God, you see, I just knew that there might be some poor soul out there in the world hidden away from all societies and cultures where he wouldn't be surrounded by people who had bibles and that it wouldn't be fair for him to be condemned just because he never heard the name of Jesus." I'm confident that God's not giving anyone a pass because they thought that His plan of salvation wasn't fair.

As to the second case, we all live by probabilities. At some times in our lives we make decisions based on, "Well, what's the best chances that something will work?" If one goes to college it's usually because they know that the chances of them finding a better paying job than they'd get with just a high school diploma are greatly enhanced, but there's no gaurantee. That same 'rule' of probability says that if you wear a seat belt, while there is some very, very, very, very slim chance your vehicle will wind up in a river or on fire today, there is a much greater chance that you might be involved in an accident where failure to have on your seat belt will result in increased injury or possibly death.

Now, you're asking what this possibly has to do with tithing? Well, as best you are able with the knowledge that you have, you do what God wants you to do! Let God worry about the things and the people outside of your purvue and don't expect that God is much interested in your excuses based on imagined complications that others might have. God asked of Israel to give tithes and offerings that supported people's ability to publicly worship Him. Paul wrote that pastors and teachers were worthy of support for their work financially. That money doesn't just appear from nowhere. It comes from God's people who understand the work that must be done and that we must provide some sort of financial pool by which this work can be done.

So, God asks you to give what you may cheerfully give. I agree that too many of our fellowships make a big deal of tithing in a manner that often produces guilt in the people. I'm also not necessarily convicted that the 'tenth', which is where 'tithe' comes from is a correct teaching. I find that the new covenant teaching of God's people supporting the work of Jesus' church is in understanding that monies are needed and that we should, if we love God and desire to be even a small part in the great commission, be responsible to financially support our fellowships, missionaries, pastors and teachers of the truth. But absolutely, you should only give as much as you can cheerfully and thankfully give. If you can't afford to part with one penny cheerfully, then keep it! It isn't going to do you or God any good for you to give begrudgingly and with an attitude of, "Well, I've got to do this."

BTW, it might serve better your understanding if you referred to the monies that you give to your fellowship as an 'offering' rather than a 'tithe'. Just the difference in the words turns your giving into something that you want to 'offer' rather than something you feel legally bound to 'tithe'.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

oh and
there is Two Judgements one for the believers only no works, called the Bema seat of Christ These get judged on how many times they listened to the holy spirit tell them to witness. once We believe in the good news all our Sins are for given. The GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT is for the unbeliever and the works righteous believers. those who die thinking there going to justify there good verses there bad deeds. Jesus will say I never knew you get away from me. to hell you go.
Do not try to shame people to tithe. God does not need money.

 

[RRep]

You work at the level of the faith you are at right now. We tithe and give freely and have been very blessed over time, but at the beginning, it's definitely a faith thing to just decide to trust God with your finances. I remember one time I gave $4, because that is all I had. And the Lord blessed me. But you do have to use common sense.

I will say that a pastor should not be routinely emphasizing tithing or giving. That means he is not in faith himself that the Lord will pay the bills for the church. Do not feel pressured, ever.

The Bible says we are to store up something as we prosper and give freely and NOT under compulsion. Our church has boxes and you insert something when you feel like it (or give online). None of this pressure stuff.

I think you are overthinking this. But if you believe the Lord would have you tithe, then you just do it, regularly, as if you are paying a bill. It's only between you and the Lord.

if it is only between you and the lord then why tell us you put 4 dallars in. because it is all about you right

 

[RRep]

He who sows sparingly shall also reap sparingly, he who sows abundantly shall also reap abundantly

That scripture is talking about giving out the GOOD NEWS. wow Luke 19 the parable is the same thing. Jesus never said hide in a building he said go out.

 

[RRep]

and how much does he want me to use to serve others?"

it cost almost nothing to serve other. Give them the GOOD NEWS tell them they will inherit the Earth when they believe.

 

[RRep]

storehouse

is a place that things grown are stored