im very confused about tithing because.....

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I can't say I've tithed, and then noticed lots of financial set backs, seemingly as a result. But I can say that for every testimony of a miracle that followed tithing, there are tons more unspoken testimonies of faithful tithers who are broke! God is not opening up the windows of heaven and pouring out a blessing that they cannot contain. And God said "test me in this". Well, have you tested him? And has he done it? If God meant tithing for you, he would be obligated by his own word to bless you financially as a result.

But, let me tell you, tithing is the law, the old covenant. Jesus fulfilled the law, and we under the new covenant are not supposed to live by it. We don't keep OT dietary laws, we don't stone one another for working on the sabbath, we don't worry about whether our clothes are made from blended fabrics, we don't observe biblical holidays (the feast of tabernacales, passover) etc. The only parts of the old covenant that we have to observe, are those things that the apostles restated in the NT, signifying that they apply to believers. Not only that, according to Galatians, if you follow the law, you are under a curse, because cursed is everyone that does not continue to do all that is written in the law, if they seek to follow it. And no one can keep all of the law today. It's not possible. If you attempt it, you will subject yourself to the curse. Rather than be blessed by tithing, you will be cursed. It sounds like your experience is just that. Rather than receiving God's blessing, your finances are being cursed. I know some people have testimonies of being blessed as a result of giving, but as someone mentioned, I believe that is God blessing them for the giving, for the sacrifice, for exercising their faith in general. Not for tithing. Especially considering that giving 10% of your income is not the biblical definition of tithing. We cannot alter God's definition of the tithe. We don't have the authority to do that. To do so is to bring a strange fire. We either bring God the sacrifice he wants, or he doesn't accept it. Many well meaning sincere believers think they are tithing, but they are not. But if you are seeking to follow the OT law, you will be under a curse. When I look at those who consistently tithe, I would say the overall testimony they have is one of being in lack. If tithing were of God, we should all be millionaires by now, but we're not. Why is that?

Use your money to take care of your needs. There are many Christians who do not tithe, (though they give freely to the poor) and they are not cursed. Why don't you test God in that. Try not tithing, and see what happens. You've already tried tithing, and things have blown up in your face. Why don't you try free will giving only, and the NT teaches.
 
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GaryArnold

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If God meant tithing for you, he would be obligated by his own word to bless you financially as a result

No where did God ever say He would bless anyone financially because they tithed. The blessing mentioned in Malachi 3 was RAIN, not money.

OLD TESTAMENT
Proverbs 3:9 (KJV) “Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase:”

NEW TESTAMENT
2 Timothy 2:6 (KJV) “The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits.”

1 Timothy 5:8 (KJV) “But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.”

The New Testament makes it clear that we are to use the FIRST of our income to take care of ourselves and our family. We are talking about needs, here, not just anything we want. Then we should give generously from what is left.
 
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No where did God ever say He would bless anyone financially because they tithed. The blessing mentioned in Malachi 3 was RAIN, not money.

I think you're splitting hairs. This is what Malachi 3 states about the blessing:

Test me in this,” says the LORD Almighty, “and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that there will not be room enough to store it. 11 I will prevent pests from devouring your crops, and the vines in your fields will not drop their fruit before it is ripe,” says the LORD Almighty. 12 “Then all the nations will call you blessed, for yours will be a delightful land,” says the LORD Almighty.

I would consider that a form of financial blessing. If you're a farmer, and you make money by selling your crops, and God increases them, that translates into financial blessing (He preservs and increases your supply of crops, you have more to sell, you earn more money and have more to feed your family. the land is blessed and you are blessed as well)...My point is that if the tithe that is taught in church is the present day equivalent of the biblical tithe, then God would be obligated to bless us. But if we are doing what we think is tithing, and no blessing is taking place, then it shows that the tithe is not for us. At the end of the day, we both agree that the present day system of "tithing" will not result in a believer being blessed, whether with crops, money, or what have you, because it's not applicable, and all wrong to begin with.
 
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Trainlady

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medieval lady83, I thank you for your interesting and thought-provoking take on the subject of tithing.

I did not in any way link my tithing to an OT law. Didn't even occur to me. Instead, I made a pledge to give a certain amount to the church as a stepping out in faith. Something to increase my faith, yet instead I feel as though it is diminishing. I am not looking to get anything, but I wasn't looking to lose anything, either.

Thanks again for your thoughts.
 
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GaryArnold

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@ medieval lady83,

First of all, Malachi 3 is addressed to the Levitical priesthood, not to Christians. Neither the blessings nor the curses referred to have anything to do us Christians.

I'm not splitting hairs at all. The Biblical tithe ALWAYS came from FOOD, from crops and animals. Money was not allowed as a tithe. The tithe was never on income. Wage earners didn't tithe, and Jesus didn't tithe from His income as a carpenter, and Paul didn't tithe from his income as a tent maker, and Peter didn't tithe on the fish he caught.

You said, "My point is that if the tithe that is taught in church is the present day equivalent of the biblical tithe, then God would be obligated to bless us."

But it's not the equivalent to the Biblical tithe at all, and even if it were, God still would not be obligated to bless us because the promises in Malachi 3 were not given to the Church.

Your conclusion, though, is correct. Tithing is wrong today, and has no place in the Christian Church.
 
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The hard thing about situations like these is that you don't know until all the pieces have fallen where they may what was going on. Whether God was testing you to see if you would trust him and keep your pledge even when difficulty strikes. There are people who have testimonies of still giving even in hard times, then God blessed them for it, covering their need. Or, is this just life happening at a bad time? When you made your pledge you could afford it, but life happened, and now you can't. There are stories of people who went into debt all so they wouldn't neglect giving their tithe or some other gift pledge, and God did not replace their supply. Not every widow of Zaraphath has her supply replenished. And it's hard to know until it's over, what kind of situation you're in. I think the best thing to do is pray and ask God for wisdom. And possibly, go to the church, and tell them that you would like to give what you pledged, but that you are facing financial difficulties, and will resume giving once things calm down a bit. But, I would say do that if you feel that your giving was a free will gift.
 
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@ GaryArnold - The reason I said you were splitting hairs is because we were talking about two different things. One is what does God define as the tithe. The other is what does God define as the blessings he will give to those who "test him in this". I agree with you 100%. The biblical tithe was food, not money. But, the blessings that God said he would give in Malachi 3, was a blessing of increased abundance of crops, (though it could include other forms of abundance as well). And if you're a farmer an abundance of crops translates into more money because you have more to sell. Where there is a bad year with no rain, in an agrarian society, the economy takes a hit. When there is rain and an abundance of crops, financial blessing will be a result.

But since tithing is not for today, God is not obligated to give the believer any form of blessing as a result (we get a curse instead). It's one thing for us to use the bible to determine exactly how God wanted people to tithe, or how God would bless people. It's another thing to use to bible to figure out the exact way we won't be blessed. To me that's pointless. Either way, it's all stuff we're not going to get.
 
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tackattack

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God wasn't obligated to save us either. Thank His bountiful Grace for His love and compassionate outpouring.

@Medieval Lady- If your faith is being tested, I'll be praing for you. Do you feel comfortable talking to your pastor about it? Perhaps there is something that your Church can do for you? I know the mechanic ministry at the Church I go to now started from people wanting to tithe, but having lots of car problems pop up. There were some mechanics in the congregation that volunteered to help out for free. Now they use it for reaching out to people outside the Church. If you feel you are the one holding up the church, remember the church is all of us and we are a community built to serve and love each other!
 
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Trainlady

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The hard thing about situations like these is that you don't know until all the pieces have fallen where they may what was going on. Whether God was testing you to see if you would trust him and keep your pledge even when difficulty strikes. There are people who have testimonies of still giving even in hard times, then God blessed them for it, covering their need. Or, is this just life happening at a bad time? When you made your pledge you could afford it, but life happened, and now you can't. There are stories of people who went into debt all so they wouldn't neglect giving their tithe or some other gift pledge, and God did not replace their supply. Not every widow of Zaraphath has her supply replenished. And it's hard to know until it's over, what kind of situation you're in. I think the best thing to do is pray and ask God for wisdom. And possibly, go to the church, and tell them that you would like to give what you pledged, but that you are facing financial difficulties, and will resume giving once things calm down a bit. But, I would say do that if you feel that your giving was a free will gift.

It was definitely a free-will gift. Making the pledge was something I wanted to do as a commitment to my own Christian growth.

You are right, of course, about what I bolded. I just feel very disheartened. I have been trying to strengthen my faith--it seems to come so very easily to most people and I took the pledge step to proactively increase my own sense of faith. It is a lifelong difficulty I've had, sometimes leaving the church over it (but always returning because it is hard for me to NOT believe in God) that we "know" that God loves us--but you cannot FEEL loved by God. We must believe it. We know what Jesus did for us. But in the end, we are each still so very, very alone and there is no real emotional and tangible sense of being loved by God. Times like this don't help that.

Sorry, perhaps I should not be so honest here, but please refrain from responding with endless bible verses. I know them, and they don't help.
 
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tackattack

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One thing I use to help strengthen my faith is to set milestones. I kept a journal and everytime some miraculous set of circumstances aligned themselves and showed me God's will in a situation I recorrded it. It started off once a month, then once a week, then soon I was noticing God's will every day. However each one of those events I can look back and say, that's a milestone in my faith. Faith is just remembering to trust in God. Read Joshua chapter 3 and 4 about the 12 stones crossing the Jordan as a practicle example (sorry for the verses).

I don't particularly feel unloved by God at all anymore. There have been times yes, but the Lord uses them to usually point out where my sins had seperated me from His will. If you feel alone, what type of fellowship or discipleship or congregation are you part of right now. We're all one in the Body and if a part feels isolated and sick we should pray and help, and if I can in any way help don't hesitate to PM or email me.

I'll be praying for you,
Dave
 
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Trainlady

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Thank you for your thoughtful response, Dave. Keeping a journal might be a good idea. And yes, thank you for your prayers. This is not something I feel comfortable discussing with my fellow church members at this time because we have so many out of work and I at least am employed.

I will read Joshua, too. LOL, I am not anti-bible verses--was just trying to preclude the all-too-frequent situation wherein people respond by quoting verses in lieu of direct conversation. Thank you again for your kind answer.
 
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Sadalmelik

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One thing I use to help strengthen my faith is to set milestones. I kept a journal and everytime some miraculous set of circumstances aligned themselves and showed me God's will in a situation I recorrded it. It started off once a month, then once a week, then soon I was noticing God's will every day. However each one of those events I can look back and say, that's a milestone in my faith. Faith is just remembering to trust in God. Read Joshua chapter 3 and 4 about the 12 stones crossing the Jordan as a practicle example (sorry for the verses).

I don't particularly feel unloved by God at all anymore. There have been times yes, but the Lord uses them to usually point out where my sins had seperated me from His will. If you feel alone, what type of fellowship or discipleship or congregation are you part of right now. We're all one in the Body and if a part feels isolated and sick we should pray and help, and if I can in any way help don't hesitate to PM or email me.

I'll be praying for you,
Dave


thats an inspiring idea, to keep a journal like that, im going to think about doing it.
 
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Drayzon

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either you believe the bible is the inspired word of God or you don't, the issue decreed by the apostles and elders was gentiles were not under the ritualistic laws of moses, this incudes circumcision and the the ritualistic laws of tithing

Haven't been on here in a few days...

Anyway yes, I do believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God. Again this has nothing to do with our argument.

Yes the issue was decreed. Correct. But I have two questions for you my friend.

1) Do you believe that God is in control and that He does what He wants in and on this Earth?

2) Is it the concept of tithing that bothers you or is it the fact that certain churches go about it the wrong way?
 
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Drayzon

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I prayed about it and decided I could afford to pledge a certain amount of money each week to my church. My church is operating on a deficit, and I know my pledge is one of the larger ones; however, I am NOT truly tithing (giving ten percent). I just can't afford it, so I pledged a percentage and dollar amount I knew I could afford.

I also find it very hard to believe that people cannot "AFFORD" to give 10% of their income. It's 10%. You mean to tell me that you cannot live on 90%.


I think it all boils down to not being unable to, but not wanting to.

You pledged. But a pledge is not tithes. I'm guessing the pledge is way below 10% correct.

The reason it seems as if I am cold or not understanding is that God has dealt with me with tithing and my life has been more blessed because of it. I was like those here who don't agree with it. But the reality is 10% is not a lot at all.

But one thing I do want to clear up is this. When God blesses people that pay tithes it is not always tit for tat. It is not always money for money. And I'm going to say this and everyone hear me out before you pound on me. :prayer:

Many times in my life when I paid tithes, God revealed later that he blessed me in a different way than money. He kept me from major car accidents, kept me from carjackings, robberies, kept my family safe, kept me in my right mind, gave me peace, a peace that passes all understanding. He's given me 'favor' and for those of you who know what I'm talking about know that 'favor' is better than money.

I've seen God do awesome things in my life, but it only happened after I gave up my own understanding and logic. What I tell people is that God is not logical or else He does not deal with things with human logic. His ways are past finding out.

I implore you to try it. It seems hard, it may even seem pointless, but think about it, you have had problems since you've pledged, why not just try to tithe and see what happens, however, if you do at least try it, you have to give it in faith knowing that your God will work out every situation in your life in the way He sees fit. Remember it's not always money for money, but many times a bill collector giving you an extension or even saying you don't have to pay this month is FAR greater than a monetary value.
 
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GaryArnold

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I also find it very hard to believe that people cannot "AFFORD" to give 10% of their income. It's 10%. You mean to tell me that you cannot live on 90%.

Maybe for you, but I have family and friends that can't even make it from payday to payday without help from relatives.

And PLEASE, exactly what scripture are you going by when you "tithe?" I bet you won't be able to give me even ONE verse on tithing that YOU follow. Instead, you are following the lies you hear in church. You are being obedient to your pastor, NOT God's Word.

Deuteronomy 14:22-29 (KJV)
22Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
23And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
24And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
25Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
26And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
27And the Levite that is within thy gates; thou shalt not forsake him; for he hath no part nor inheritance with thee.
28At the end of three years thou shalt bring forth all the tithe of thine increase the same year, and shalt lay it up within thy gates:
29And the Levite, (because he hath no part nor inheritance with thee,) and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which are within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.

Does it say anything about taking a tenth of your money to the church?

You have been a victim of false teaching.
 
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Drayzon

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Oh please, we all have it rough. In this economy, with no jobs we all are struggling, so if you think I am well off or something you are mistaken. It does not matter what you say 10% is not a lot.

-Malachi 3:8-10-
Also in the New Testament tithing in frowned upon by Jesus, because the Pharisees do it for boasting purposes. He was upset at them because of their lack of spirituality, not because they were tithing.

In your argument you say that the Bible does not say anything about the church having to tithe, but I'd also say that the Bible does not say NOT to tithe. Basically tithing brings blessings. Those that don't pay tithes, just aren't as blessed as they truly could be, but they wouldn't even know it, because they don't do it. I am not frowning on or judging people that don't tithe. I guess my main gripe is how 10% is such a huge amount that people can't seem to afford, but yet they can go to the mall, to the movies, to restaurants with that same 10%.
 
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GaryArnold

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-Malachi 3:8-10-
Also in the New Testament tithing in frowned upon by Jesus, because the Pharisees do it for boasting purposes. He was upset at them because of their lack of spirituality, not because they were tithing.

In your argument you say that the Bible does not say anything about the church having to tithe, but I'd also say that the Bible does not say NOT to tithe.

Just like pastors who don't want you to know the truth, you start with Malachi 3:8 INSTEAD OF Malachi 3:7 (KJV) “Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ORDINANCES, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?”

NO ONE is following those ORDINANCES today, which say to tithe on crops and animals, and take the tithe to the Levites. But then, no one today is supposed to follow those ORDINANCES, because Colossians 2:14 (KJV) “Blotting out the handwriting of ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;”

In Matthew 23:23 Jesus does say they ought to tithe, but He refers to tithing as MATTERS OF THE LAW (the ordinances which were nailed to the cross), and they were under the Old Covenant at that time. The New Covenant doesn't begin until after Jesus died on the cross.

The Bible, in several places, tells us to STOP tithing:

In Hebrews 7:5,12,18 we are told that tithe was DISANNULLED.

Hebrews 7:7 (KJV) “And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.”

Abram, the lesser, was blessed by the King-Priest Melchisedek, the better.

Abram gave the tenth to the better.

1 Peter 2:5 (KJV) “Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.”

1 Peter 2:9 (KJV) “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:”

1 - According to the scriptures, priests do not tithe.
2 - As priests, all born-again believers are equal. There is no better or lesser among us. God has not designated any born-again believers to collect His tithe.
3 - To try and “tithe” today is denying that you are a part of a Royal Priesthood.

When you try to tithe today, you diminish what Jesus did on the cross. Furthermore, GOD said to tithe on HIS increase from crops and animals, which came from HIM, not man's earnings. To give a tenth of your income to the church and call it God's tithe is an insult to God.

I have NEVER tithed in my life, yet I've been blessed so much, in so many different ways, that I was able to retire at the age of 50 with NO debts. Tithing is falsely taught that the 90% left is yours to do as you please. That is NOT Biblical. The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. For some, $1 might be a sacrifice, while for others, even giving 50% of their income might not induce a sacrifice. In the Old Testament, ONLY the farmers tithed, and it was equal percentage (a tenth). The New Testament teaches the principle of equal sacrifice instead of equal percentage. Equal sacrifice is much harder to achieve, if not impossible, than giving ten percent.

Tithing is the opposite of seeking the Holy Spirit. Tithing is the opposite of what Paul taught - giving according to your means; according to how you have been prospered.

I have absolutely no problem with anyone giving a tenth of their income to the church. I definitely have a problem with relating that tenth to the Biblical tithe. It has nothing to do with it.

We are not under the Malachi curse: Galatians 3:13 “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us…”

WE ARE ALREADY BLESSED WITH ALL SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS
Ephesians 1:3 (KJV) “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:”

Giving should be from the heart, NOT as an investment where you expect something in return.
 
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Drayzon

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Just like pastors who don't want you to know the truth, you start with Malachi 3:8 INSTEAD OF Malachi 3:7 (KJV) “Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ORDINANCES, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?”

Do you really see what Malachi 3:7 is saying... You believe it's saying...


NO ONE is following those ORDINANCES today, which say to tithe on crops and animals, and take the tithe to the Levites.

When you forget to read the rest of the verse. God said... "Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts." He is telling them to return to the days of their fathers when they DID follow the ordinances, otherwise He would've ended it there and the rest of the verses wouldn't have been written.

In Matthew 23:23 Jesus does say they ought to tithe, but He refers to tithing as MATTERS OF THE LAW (the ordinances which were nailed to the cross), and they were under the Old Covenant at that time. The New Covenant doesn't begin until after Jesus died on the cross.

Again you have to look at what Jesus is really saying. He is not putting emphasis on tithing or the obeying of the law, He is chastising the Pharisees for not practicing or following the TRUE matters of the law, which is judgment, mercy and faith. But look at the end of the verse, it says...

"...these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." He's telling them to keep doing the law, but to not neglect the true matters of the law which was stated above.

The Bible, in several places, tells us to STOP tithing:

In Hebrews 7:5,12,18 we are told that tithe was DISANNULLED.

Hebrews 7:7 (KJV) “And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.”

Abram, the lesser, was blessed by the King-Priest Melchisedek, the better.

Abram gave the tenth to the better.

1) Hebrews 7:5, 12, 18 mentions nothing about tithing being disannulled; You simply cannot place whatever you want into that broad of a scripture. I know you're gonna say that it's talking about the law and tithing is part of the law and how the law was abolished, but this scripture pretty much tells everything...

Matthew 5:17-19
17) Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill
18) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19) Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven

These few verses sum everything up. So the belief that the law was abolished is in fact false. The Law was NOT abolished, but only fulfilled through the blood of Jesus Christ.

Also Matthew 5:20 says... "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the Kingdom of Heaven... But you have to couple that with... Romans 10:4 which says...

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth."

You see, Christ is the end of the law for RIGHTEOUSNESS, but He never came to do away with the law itself, simply that the Law does not save anymore, like it used to, now Jesus saves, it's very simple.


1 Peter 2:5 (KJV) “Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.”

1 Peter 2:9 (KJV) “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should show forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:”

This is another discussion, but the priests of God, the chosen generation is not everyone in the Body of Christ, but we can discuss that somewhere and at another time.


When you try to tithe today, you diminish what Jesus did on the cross. Furthermore, GOD said to tithe on HIS increase from crops and animals, which came from HIM, not man's earnings. To give a tenth of your income to the church and call it God's tithe is an insult to God.

Everything that was said above really puts a wrench in this argument. Also, is not everything in this world God's, so how can you say that "OUR" income is not God's and to tithe our income is an insult to Him. Last time I checked, He owns everything. Just saying

I have NEVER tithed in my life, yet I've been blessed so much, in so many different ways, that I was able to retire at the age of 50 with NO debts. Tithing is falsely taught that the 90% left is yours to do as you please. That is NOT Biblical. The New Testament teaches generous, sacrificial giving, from the heart, according to our means. For some, $1 might be a sacrifice, while for others, even giving 50% of their income might not induce a sacrifice. In the Old Testament, ONLY the farmers tithed, and it was equal percentage (a tenth). The New Testament teaches the principle of equal sacrifice instead of equal percentage. Equal sacrifice is much harder to achieve, if not impossible, than giving ten percent.

I believe you are confusing tithing with offering/seeding. Tithing is what I'm talking about. Offering is what you're talking about. Offering is from the heart and from the Spirit. Tithing is 10% of your income. But my pastor has gone even deeper to say, we should tithe our time to God, meaning there are 24 hours in a day, so why not give him 2:40 during the day. I'm not going to argue that you weren't blessed, I'm sure you were and I am very excited that you were, but how do you know that you weren't supposed to be even more blessed than you are/were. :confused: Just a thought.

Tithing is the opposite of seeking the Holy Spirit. Tithing is the opposite of what Paul taught - giving according to your means; according to how you have been prospered.

Again you base your beliefs on thinking that the Law was done away with, when in fact it was not. If Jesus destroyed the law, what law would we live by. He never established anything in the New Testament. You notice everything Jesus said was the law, it was just embellished upon and He went deeper and more spiritual with it.

I have absolutely no problem with anyone giving a tenth of their income to the church. I definitely have a problem with relating that tenth to the Biblical tithe. It has nothing to do with it.

Well thank you for not having a problem with it. I hope you soon see that what I and others are saying is true and it is not in fact false or pointless as you say.

We are not under the Malachi curse: Galatians 3:13 “Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us…”

Thank you Jesus, this is true. The Law was no longer used to save. Jesus fulfilled that. He died to save us, so the law did not doom us. We agree.:thumbsup:

WE ARE ALREADY BLESSED WITH ALL SPIRITUAL BLESSINGS
Ephesians 1:3 (KJV) “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:”

Didn't really see the point in mentioning this. We agree on this as well. So if we already have all spiritual blessings then why when we give our tithes do we not expect these blessing to sustain us when we most need it.

Giving should be from the heart, NOT as an investment where you expect something in return.

You are absolutely right. Giving should be done in this way. Tithing is different. It's as if God is our employer and He is simply taking out His taxes, 10, however is a beautiful and fair percentage. We get more taken out of our secular checks, we find ways to adjust to that, so why is this seemingly so hard. I believe it is a choice. It's easy to deal with the issues of life, but God forbid we actually have to do something or sacrifice for our God.:doh:
 
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GaryArnold

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Your pastor just seems to make up things.

GIVE ME SCRIPTURE THAT YOU, YOURSELF, FOLLOW, REGARDING THE TITHE.

If your pastor says that God commanded a tithe of your income, your pastor is either ignorant of the scriptures or just a plain liar. Plain and simple.

God NEVER commanded anyone to tithe on their income. You seem to have difficulty distinguishing between God's labor and man's labor.

Deuteronomy 8:18 (NIV) - But remember the LORD your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth, and so confirms his covenant, which he swore to your forefathers, as it is today.

God gives us the power, or ability, to get or produce wealth. In other words, God gives us the ability to work and earn a living. God gives us the ability to work - to labor. When we work, it is our labor doing the work, not God's labor. He gave us the ability to do the work ourselves. The tithe NEVER came from the abilities that God gave to us. No matter what man does, he cannot make the fruit and vegetable and animals. The tithe came from God's miraculous increase of food ONLY. Nothing else.

Why is it that NO Christian Church ever taught anyone to tithe on their income before 1870? All it takes is a little research to find the truth behind the tithing lies taught in churches today.

Those who try to tithe today have missed the teachings of the New Testament.

Matthew 5:17-18 states Christ came to fulfill the law and not abolish it.

This is where some education in law is useful. What does fulfill mean? What does abolish mean?

Let me give an example. A legal contract is enforceable under the law. Let’s say you hire a contractor to build a swimming pool in your back yard. Once the contractor has completed the job, and everything in that contract has been completed, the contract has been fulfilled. The contractor’s job is to fulfill the contract, not abolish it. He fulfills it by completing the terms, bringing it to an end.

Consider:

Hebrews 8:13 (KJV) - In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Colossians 2:14 (KJV) - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Galatians 5:18 (KJV) - But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Galatians 3:19 (KJV) - Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. In other words, until Jesus came and fulfilled the law.

Galatians 3:23-25 (KJV)
23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Galatians 3:10-14 (KJV)
10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Whether you believe the law ended at the cross, as I do, or whether you believe you should follow the Old Testament laws today, NO ONE is following God's commands to tithe today. You are following man's tradition started in 1870.

1 - Do you tithe on God's increase of crops and animals?
2 - Do you take the first tithe to the Levites?
3 - Do you eat the second tithe?
4 - Do you give the third tithe to the Levites, widows, orphans, and stranger?
-OR-
5 - do you take a tenth of your income to the church?

The first 4 listed are God's commands. The fifth one was made up by greedy church leaders.

IF you don't follow 1-4 above, then YOU also are NOT following His ordinances.

This would be easy for you if your pastor hadn't corrupted his teaching.
 
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