I'm struggling, as an atheist, to turn off notifications...

[Freodin]

Not a problem. I am not offended. You see, it is conviction that God the Holy Spirit gives to believers like myself, that determine how we think and what we write. It is nothing short of an affront to Almighty God, that people like Darwin, Hawkins, Dawkins, etc, teach, what they do. They dare accuse The Almighty of what He has said in His Most Holy and Infallible Word, of being untrue. I make no apology for what I believe and will never decry the beliefs of others, as I too was once in darkness, before the Light of Jesus Christ shone in my heart. My faith is most certainly not a blind one, and I am genuinely willing to listen to what others say, without trying to be "superior" to them, which I have no intentions of doing. Darwinism is nothing more then a "theory", and will always be just that. Because the opposite of that is The Word of Almighty God. Both cannot be right, and there can be no doubt that Mr Darwin is in error.

You might not have understood what I wrote. Your description of "Darwinism" is false. What ever "Darwinism" might be, it is not and never has been a "theory of how this world began". This is a simple thing to learn... if you would be willing to learn, instead of proclaim your "convictions" to be directly from a divine source.
Whatever else you might say... making such an obvious false claim makes you sound ignorant. Being notified of such a mistake and not correcting it makes you sound insincere.

 

[Alpha-Omega]

"it is conviction that God the Holy Spirit gives to believers like myself, that determine how we think and what we write." And therein lies the problem. What if you are wrong? There's no way out of your error then, is there? You are stuck. No way back to start again and take an objective, non-presuppositional approach.

No atheist accuses the Almighty of anything. It would not make sense. Atheists don't believe in deities.

Darwinism is not the prevailing theory of evolution. He died a long time ago, and the science has moved on enormously. And it is a scientific theory, not, "nothing more than a theory". Other scientific theories are the theory of gravity. Germ theory. Atomic theory. "Scientific theory" denotes one of the highest, most secure forms of scientific knowledge. (BTW, if you want proof positive of common descent, goto my FAQ @ Veritas: Endogenous Retroviruses - Frequently Asked Questions )

Re. conviction again, it is all well and good, but it gives no guarantee of being correct, no matter how strongly you feel it. People throughout history have been totally convinced of various, often incompatible things. Many have been demonstrated to be mistaken.

Can I say the same to you? What if you are wrong? What if you do not believe in the God of the Bible, heaven and hell, etc, and you find out after you die, that it was all true? The problem that you have then, it will be too late. Is this huge risk that anyone would really like to take? Hell, according to the Holy Bible is an eternal place for suffering, for those who reject God and His Perfect Plan of salvation from sin for sinners, like you and I, which is a free gift. If I am wrong, then there is no real loss, and I would then join the millions and go into "nothingness". But your gamble is by far the greater, as you have much more to lose. No one has ever proved the Bible to be wrong, and never can. But, people like Lee Stroble, and Josh MacDowell, and other skeptics and atheists have converted to the Lord, as they were convinced by the Truth of the Holy Bible. Thankfully there are many personal testimonies of many who doubted, like yourself, on You Tube, where you can see their "conversion" to the Great and Loving and Merciful God of the Holy Bible. May the Lord have mercy on you, dear friend!

 

[Alpha-Omega]

You might not have understood what I wrote. Your description of "Darwinism" is false. What ever "Darwinism" might be, it is not and never has been a "theory of how this world began". This is a simple thing to learn... if you would be willing to learn, instead of proclaim your "convictions" to be directly from a divine source.
Whatever else you might say... making such an obvious false claim makes you sound ignorant. Being notified of such a mistake and not correcting it makes you sound insincere.

The "divine source", in none other than the Great God of the Holy Bible, Who is THE WAY and THE TRUTH and THE LIFE!

 

[Freodin]

The "divine source", in none other than the Great God of the Holy Bible, Who is THE WAY and THE TRUTH and THE LIFE!

If it is the source that told you that Darwin made a "theory of how this world began"... your source is faulty.

But you could simply admit your mistake, and try to learn something about the things that you decry as an "affront to Allmight God".

Are you up to it?

 

[Barry Desborough]

Can I say the same to you? What if you are wrong? What if you do not believe in the God of the Bible, heaven and hell, etc, and you find out after you die, that it was all true? The problem that you have then, it will be too late. Is this huge risk that anyone would really like to take? Hell, according to the Holy Bible is an eternal place for suffering, for those who reject God and His Perfect Plan of salvation from sin for sinners, like you and I, which is a free gift. If I am wrong, then there is no real loss, and I would then join the millions and go into "nothingness". But your gamble is by far the greater, as you have much more to lose. No one has ever proved the Bible to be wrong, and never can. But, people like Lee Stroble, and Josh MacDowell, and other skeptics and atheists have converted to the Lord, as they were convinced by the Truth of the Holy Bible. Thankfully there are many personal testimonies of many who doubted, like yourself, on You Tube, where you can see their "conversion" to the Great and Loving and Merciful God of the Holy Bible. May the Lord have mercy on you, dear friend!

My major problem with Pascal's wager is that even if one wanted to, one cannot just make oneself believe in something one finds impossible to believe in. By definition. If there was a God, I'm sure He would not be interested in me pretending.

But we are not mirrors of one another. I have evidence of both evolution and the Big Bang. It's not evidence of the non-existence of God, but I'm not interested in gods. You, admittedly, have no evidence for your beliefs - just a sense of "conviction". Sorry. It doesn't impress.

Pascal's wager carries weight for those who already believe. It does not carry any weight for non-believers.

 

[Barry Desborough]

The "divine source", in none other than the Great God of the Holy Bible, Who is THE WAY and THE TRUTH and THE LIFE!

So you assert.

 

[Alpha-Omega]

If it is the source that told you that Darwin made a "theory of how this world began"... your source is faulty.

But you could simply admit your mistake, and try to learn something about the things that you decry as an "affront to Allmight God".

Are you up to it?

There is no mistake whatsoever. It is a fact that Darwin denied that Almighty God created us human beings, from the dust of the earth as taught in Genesis chapter 1. Anyone who believes in, and teaches anything other than what God has said, regardless of who they are, are calling God a liar, and is an affront to Him. No Bible-believing Creationist would ever believe in natural selection or evolution, or any other than the Bible's account as to how this world started.

 

[Alpha-Omega]

My major problem with Pascal's wager is that even if one wanted to, one cannot just make oneself believe in something one finds impossible to believe in. By definition. If there was a God, I'm sure He would not be interested in me pretending.

But we are not mirrors of one another. I have evidence of both evolution and the Big Bang. It's not evidence of the non-existence of God, but I'm not interested in gods. You, admittedly, have no evidence for your beliefs - just a sense of "conviction". Sorry. It doesn't impress.

Pascal's wager carries weight for those who already believe. It does not carry any weight for non-believers.

It was you who said, what if I were wrong. I turned this on to you as a reasonable counter argument, that you could well be wrong, and that you have the greater to lose, than any Bible-believing Christian. We already believe in the God of the Bible, and that we are all sinners doomed to eternal punishment in a real hell, without the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ there is no hope. This is what the Bible plainly teaches, and what we Christians believe in. Those who deny this, could well find out when it is too late that they were so very wrong, and all for nothing.

 

[Barry Desborough]

There is no mistake whatsoever. It is a fact that Darwin denied that Almighty God created us human beings, from the dust of the earth as taught in Genesis chapter 1. Anyone who believes in, and teaches anything other than what God has said, regardless of who they are, are calling God a liar, and is an affront to Him. No Bible-believing Creationist would ever believe in natural selection or evolution, or any other than the Bible's account as to how this world started.

Spare us God's ventriloquists.

"No Bible-believing Creationist would ever believe in natural selection or evolution, or any other than the Bible's account as to how this world started." - Great example of a tautology. Fortunately, "Bible-believing Creationist" and "Christian" are different things.

 

[Barry Desborough]

It was you who said, what if I were wrong. I turned this on to you as a reasonable counter argument, that you could well be wrong, and that you have the greater to lose, than any Bible-believing Christian. We already believe in the God of the Bible, and that we are all sinners doomed to eternal punishment in a real hell, without the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ there is no hope. This is what the Bible plainly teaches, and what we Christians believe in. Those who deny this, could well find out when it is too late that they were so very wrong, and all for nothing.

I know what you believe. What is missing is any justification for it.

 

[quatona]

Are you saying that those who hold to the theory of "evolution" do not believe that the world started with the "big bang theory"?

Yes, the origin of the universe isn´t covered by the evolution theory - as you can easily tell from the definition.

What then do evolutionists believe in the start of all things?

They can believe pretty much anything (since this question has nothing to do with evolution theory). Many of them believe that a god created the universe, for example.

 

[Freodin]

There is no mistake whatsoever. It is a fact that Darwin denied that Almighty God created us human beings, from the dust of the earth as taught in Genesis chapter 1. Anyone who believes in, and teaches anything other than what God has said, regardless of who they are, are calling God a liar, and is an affront to Him. No Bible-believing Creationist would ever believe in natural selection or evolution, or any other than the Bible's account as to how this world started.

I won't deny that Darwin's theory contradicts a literal reading of the Bible. Still your harsh condemnation of people who accept the Theory of Evolution - in whatever form - is unbased; there are a lot of Christians - the majority even - who accept Evolution as the method by which God created the species.

Yet this isn't the point. Darwin's theory is about how species change. It has nothing to do with "how this world began", not even with the origin of life. It is quite obvious that you are ignorant of this fact.

I have given you enough opportunities to fix this your mistake... but instead you chose to double down on it. This makes it obvious that you are ranting against a topic that you don't understand and only have minimal and errorous knowledge about.

Why would I listen to anything you say, when you have already shown that you are unreliable and proud of it?

 

[Alpha-Omega]

I know what you believe. What is missing is any justification for it.

Justification=The Infallible, Inerrant, Word of Almighty God, The Holy Bible.

 

[Barry Desborough]

Justification=The Infallible, Inerrant, Word of Almighty God, The Holy Bible.

Empty assertion.

 

[bling]

There is a good logical reason for God not making Himself obvious to every skeptic on earth, so if that is what you are looking for it will not happen in this life. It helps those not wanting to believe and it helps those willing to believe with their earthly objective.

True Christians have the indwelling Holy Spirit as their personal guarantee/assurance, but the indwelling Holy Spirit within me is not to be your evidence.

As a Christian we also have the world around us which perfectly fits man’s and God’s objective, but you have to understand the objective to the way this messed up world is.

I will try to address you logically, but there is a base we need to establish:

The problem is there is no quick answer.

I will address this “generally” and then you can ask specific questions.

Generally:

Without getting to philosophical: “Something has had to always exist since it is illogical to think something comes from nothing. Now some atheists have tried to get around this by saying nothing is really “something” and there is no such thing as really “nothing”. The bottom line is there has always been something. Now did that something at least include intelligence or was it just mass/energy/time/space? The problem with “excluding” intelligence is there appears to be a huge amount of intelligence that went into the design of this universe and life that makes it virtually impossible to happen by random “luck”. If there is one thing we have learned it is: “the more we know the more we realize we do not know”, so that means an ever increasing complex universe and the more complex it is the more random chances you need to make the right conditions without intelligence and the more likely scenario is there was intelligence involved.







If there is this eternal intelligence it would be at the epitome of the best it could be and not in the process of improvement. It would be the ultimate bad or good but not somewhere in-between. Why be bad when He can be good just as easily? The ultimate “good” would be what is called Godly type Love (to be defined later) and is totally unselfish type Love. Since this God would be able to direct our thinking, why would He have us think of him as being totally bad, when He could make us think bad was good and thus He would be worthy of praise? If God were bad and we praise a “Good God” than we are not praising Him.



The reason you have free will is because it is required for you to complete your earthly objective.

This messed up world is not here for your pleasure, but to help you become like God Himself in that you have the unique, unbelievable Godly type Love (God himself is Love).

God has created beings to shower them with the greatest gifts possible, the greatest being having a Love like His.

If there is this Creator of the universe out there, His “creations” could not really “do” anything for Him, so this Creator would have to be seen as a Giver (Unselfish Lover) and not trying to “get” something from His creation.





I think you could work with a: “pure "observable" philosophy” and conclude that the most likely alternative would be “There is most likely a god”. This is not to say you have solid “proof” beyond any skeptical doubt, but that it takes a lot less “faith” to believe there is a god than it takes to believe there is no god.

The “evidence” for the existence of God is all around us and has always been around man, but you have to consider the evidence to make it support or deny the existence of God.

You observe life all around you, so what is the most likely source for life to begin?

The universe surrounds you and got started some way and at some time, so how could that happen?

Now if you say: “do not know and do not care” you are avoiding the evidence, so there is where you can begin your investigation.

 

[Barry Desborough]

There is a good logical reason for God not making Himself obvious to every skeptic on earth, so if that is what you are looking for it will not happen in this life. It helps those not wanting to believe and it helps those willing to believe with their earthly objective.

True Christians have the indwelling Holy Spirit as their personal guarantee/assurance, but the indwelling Holy Spirit within me is not to be your evidence.

As a Christian we also have the world around us which perfectly fits man’s and God’s objective, but you have to understand the objective to the way this messed up world is.

I will try to address you logically, but there is a base we need to establish:

The problem is there is no quick answer.

I will address this “generally” and then you can ask specific questions.

Generally:

Without getting to philosophical: “Something has had to always exist since it is illogical to think something comes from nothing. Now some atheists have tried to get around this by saying nothing is really “something” and there is no such thing as really “nothing”. The bottom line is there has always been something. Now did that something at least include intelligence or was it just mass/energy/time/space? The problem with “excluding” intelligence is there appears to be a huge amount of intelligence that went into the design of this universe and life that makes it virtually impossible to happen by random “luck”. If there is one thing we have learned it is: “the more we know the more we realize we do not know”, so that means an ever increasing complex universe and the more complex it is the more random chances you need to make the right conditions without intelligence and the more likely scenario is there was intelligence involved.







If there is this eternal intelligence it would be at the epitome of the best it could be and not in the process of improvement. It would be the ultimate bad or good but not somewhere in-between. Why be bad when He can be good just as easily? The ultimate “good” would be what is called Godly type Love (to be defined later) and is totally unselfish type Love. Since this God would be able to direct our thinking, why would He have us think of him as being totally bad, when He could make us think bad was good and thus He would be worthy of praise? If God were bad and we praise a “Good God” than we are not praising Him.



The reason you have free will is because it is required for you to complete your earthly objective.

This messed up world is not here for your pleasure, but to help you become like God Himself in that you have the unique, unbelievable Godly type Love (God himself is Love).

God has created beings to shower them with the greatest gifts possible, the greatest being having a Love like His.

If there is this Creator of the universe out there, His “creations” could not really “do” anything for Him, so this Creator would have to be seen as a Giver (Unselfish Lover) and not trying to “get” something from His creation.





I think you could work with a: “pure "observable" philosophy” and conclude that the most likely alternative would be “There is most likely a god”. This is not to say you have solid “proof” beyond any skeptical doubt, but that it takes a lot less “faith” to believe there is a god than it takes to believe there is no god.

The “evidence” for the existence of God is all around us and has always been around man, but you have to consider the evidence to make it support or deny the existence of God.

You observe life all around you, so what is the most likely source for life to begin?

The universe surrounds you and got started some way and at some time, so how could that happen?

Now if you say: “do not know and do not care” you are avoiding the evidence, so there is where you can begin your investigation.

"it is illogical to think something comes from nothing". Yet it happens. Quantum vacuum fluctuations. They are not comprehensible by you, or me, but nature does not owe it to us to be comprehensible by us.

The rest is special pleading.

 

[Alpha-Omega]

I won't deny that Darwin's theory contradicts a literal reading of the Bible. Still your harsh condemnation of people who accept the Theory of Evolution - in whatever form - is unbased; there are a lot of Christians - the majority even - who accept Evolution as the method by which God created the species.

Yet this isn't the point. Darwin's theory is about how species change. It has nothing to do with "how this world began", not even with the origin of life. It is quite obvious that you are ignorant of this fact.

I have given you enough opportunities to fix this your mistake... but instead you chose to double down on it. This makes it obvious that you are ranting against a topic that you don't understand and only have minimal and errorous knowledge about.

Why would I listen to anything you say, when you have already shown that you are unreliable and proud of it?

You call me "proud", without any foundation, but I will not argue as there is much in me that I want the Lord to deal with in my life, and pride is one such thing.

But I will make this point. As a Bible-believing Christian, and all who are the like, we can assert with full confidence that we know how this world started, as stated in Genesis chapter 1, that "God created the heavens and the earth". However, there is not a single person who rejects this, can say with equal certainty, how it all started. This is very simple, because without the Bible account, there is nothing else

For those who doubt that the Holy Bible is the Word of Almighty God. Get this,

"God is enthroned above the circle of the earth; its inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like thin cloth and spreads them out like a tent to live in. " (Isaiah 40:22)

This is what was written by Isaiah the Prophet in about 800 B.C., where he describes God enthroned above the "circle" of the earth. How can it be possible to know this at this very early date, without a divine revelation? the same is also in another ancient Old Testament Book, Job, where we read, "Thick clouds veil him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the vault of heaven" (22:14)

All other references to a "round" earth, come from 100's of years after this!

 

[Alpha-Omega]

Empty assertion.

No to me!

 

[Freodin]

You call me "proud", without any foundation, but I will not argue as there is much in me that I want the Lord to deal with in my life, and pride is one such thing.

But I will make this point. As a Bible-believing Christian, and all who are the like, we can assert with full confidence that we know how this world started, as stated in Genesis chapter 1, that "God created the heavens and the earth". However, there is not a single person who rejects this, can say with equal certainty, how it all started. This is very simple, because without the Bible account, there is nothing else

For those who doubt that the Holy Bible is the Word of Almighty God. Get this,

"God is enthroned above the circle of the earth; its inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like thin cloth and spreads them out like a tent to live in. " (Isaiah 40:22)

This is what was written by Isaiah the Prophet in about 800 B.C., where he describes God enthroned above the "circle" of the earth. How can it be possible to know this at this very early date, without a divine revelation? the same is also in another ancient Old Testament Book, Job, where we read, "Thick clouds veil him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the vault of heaven" (22:14)

All other references to a "round" earth, come from 100's of years after this!

I'm not interested in playing pidgeon chess.

You had the chance to learn something, you had the chance to show that you were a person sincerely interested in truth.

But instead you chose to strengthen the views that unbelievers like me have about believers like you: that you are so self-absorbed in your little bubble of faith that it is inconceivable for you to be wrong about anything.

If that is what makes you happy... I won't bother you any more.

 

[Tigger45]

... for posts that I have "insufficient privileges" to respond to. Can anyone let me know if I can, without turning off notifications for posts that I do have sufficient "privileges" to respond to?

Thanks.

Skimming through this thread I didn't see where you have received an answer to your request. So I'll see if I can help you out.

When you see a notification you no longer want to receive click on it so it brings up a page within that thread. Close to the top on the right side of the page across from the page number selections you'll see thread tools and unwatch thread. Click on unwatch thread and it will bring up a window and select both stop receiving alerts and email notifications and then select apply. Hopefully that should work for you.