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Thanks for the info. Im not teaching anything, i was accused of something by a poster who assumed something they shouldn't have assumed in the first place, because i gave no reason for such an assumption. I then answered that assumption and provided my opinion. No worries however, i wont respond further in this forum. Peace
I dont have contempt for gays. Who am i to judge them? However, that still doesnt make that lifestyle right.
Methodists, like Lutherans and Episcopalians, believe that a human being is born again in baptism. Your particular beliefs are far newer than you think, they are not those of most early Christians. What gives you the right to dictate what is, and is not, Christianity? Even Christian Forums doesn't do this. So I think you sir, are in the wrong here. I was raised a Christian, and I still am nominally a Christian.
You claimed that Buddhists or Hindus can go to Heaven.
So we have just one instance in just one Gospel of Jesus talking to one person about being born again. Yet some consider that the pivotal requirement of anything to be found in the words of Jesus. Hmmm....
I'm left in a position figuring out if I can meaningfully call myself a Christian if I don't participate in a church community and I'm alienated by what happens at local churches.
I'm not sure what I am- I am baptized. If that means nothing to some people, there's not much I can do to change that.
How would I know if I were Spirit-filled or not? Is some kind of emotional experience evidence of the working of the Holy Spirit, or just a delusion caused by a combination of music and salesmanship? There's a reason I never went for that type of religion- I'm too intelligent. Lutherans don't believe you have to look inside to see evidence you have the Holy Spirit- it's just a fact of baptism, a promise Christ made through the Church that he must keep. And that works for me. Looking inside for holiness or inner experiences (like being "born again") is works-righteousness, and it is not trusting in Christ's all-sufficiency . I never pretended to be a holy person, far from it.
In my own faith tradition, baptism makes you a Christian -- however, there is always the possibility of apostasy. So perhaps the question comes back to you: do you consider yourself a Christian or not?I'm left in a position figuring out if I can meaningfully call myself a Christian if I don't participate in a church community and I'm alienated by what happens at local churches.
I'm not sure what I am- I am baptized. If that means nothing to some people, there's not much I can do to change that.
How would I know if I were Spirit-filled or not? Is some kind of emotional experience evidence of the working of the Holy Spirit, or just a delusion caused by a combination of music and salesmanship? There's a reason I never went for that type of religion- I'm too intelligent. Lutherans don't believe you have to look inside to see evidence you have the Holy Spirit- it's just a fact of baptism, a promise Christ made through the Church that he must keep. And that works for me. Looking inside for holiness or inner experiences (like being "born again") is works-righteousness, and it is not trusting in Christ's all-sufficiency . I never pretended to be a holy person, far from it.
In my own faith tradition, baptism makes you a Christian -- however, there is always the possibility of apostasy. So perhaps the question comes back to you: do you consider yourself a Christian or not?
I am a highly intelligent woman, and I have no problem with incorporating an experiential base to my spirituality, so I don't think it's a matter of your intelligence. I think that there's just some of us feelers and some of us thinkers and it takes all kinds to make the world go round.
I think if you want to know if you are filled with the Holy Spirit you look for the fruits: love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.
To me this is the start of truth, to admit you are (in God's eyes) flawed and to accept that in your own effort you aren't going to make yourself "perfect" (sinless) by any actions you take. The next step is to just establish a relationship with God as a friend and start to trust in him as you can and with his leading and faith in him you can slowly drift from the less imperfect to the slightly more perfect and grow in faith while doing so.I'm a sinner, far from perfect. But I don't beat myself up about it anymore.
Seriously...you sound spoiled, like you believe the red carpet should be rolled out for you. That [HELLO!] is not the reality of this world. We were kicked out of the nest, for our own shortcomings, and we either learn to fly, or crash and burn.I mean, I'm baptized but... I'm not sure I really believe. Going to church just doesn't interest me, and I don't believe in a God that has churchgoing as a mandate for my life. I'm not even sure anymore what God I believe in.
I suppose I've arrived at this place realizing I have a lot of disgust. Politically, I don't fit in with either left or right. I believe strongly in civil liberties, I'm anti-authoritarian and don't believe in telling people what is the best way to live, because I believe those sorts of questions are best answered by the individual. I'm very unhappy with how Christians have handled the LGBT issue- it goes against my live and let live attitude, and my sensitivity towards my fellow human beings.
Most of all, I believe in compassion- that is my measure of somebody's morality, and I'm not sure this is really a Christian value at the end of the day. Compassion is more important than all the creeds in the world, and I'd mark somebody as closer to the Kingdom who had it, than somebody of faith who did not. I don't see many Christians willing to go the extra mile to understand somebody different from them. I see a lot of worship of religious tradition and orthodoxy over caring about real human beings.
We really don't know God, he's an incomprehensible mystery. The classical western theology is absurd, even ridiculous, and can't be taken seriously by intelligent people. Believing in an all-powerful benevolent God is simply absurd. This is properly the "Hidden God" spoken of by Luther. The God that brings anxiety rather than comfort, or more often, delusional projections (the angry God of many authoritarians). God is hidden and not seen. So, how can you love the God you don't see when you don't love the brother you do see? (the whole point of James passage is relevant, denouncing religiosity for its own sake) So the way I see it, Christians, as followers of Jesus, should be a humanistic religion more like Confucianism or Taoism, with God and his will left a mystery, and focused on the human predicament.
That [HELLO!] is not the reality of this world. We were kicked out of the nest, for our own shortcomings, and we either learn to fly, or crash and burn.
As for compassion among Christians, Christians are the most giving group of people on the planet.
Everyone gets a second chance. Call it what you will.I'm curious how this assertion reconciles with belief in an omnibenevolent creator. It sounds more like cruelty than love.
So...you don't like a lot of people. Good for you.Christians are just like any other religious group in that area. Sometimes they give with one hand and take away with the other. I am reminded of a quote I heard a long time ago. "you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion". I've met a lot of religious people that are basically good, but do bad things because their religions doctrines have told them its the right thing to do.
Compassion is not just about giving material goods- any affluent person can do that at little personal cost, but being willing to admit you are wrong and your actions are hurting other people. Christians, in my experience, are slow to admit wrongdoing on the part of themselves.
Everyone gets a second chance. Call it what you will.
So...you don't like a lot of people. Good for you.
There is a way up - some may push you, but nobody's going to drag you.No, I don't. If anything actually makes me believe in a doctrine like total depravity, it's my own experiences.
I guess you can be a Christian without going to Church. But surely you can find a church that isn't mostly about sin and guilt.No, it doesn't offend me.
I feel better not going to church. I just don't feel into it, there was nothing edifying to me about going and listening to a tale of sin, guilt, and redemption that had little to do with my life, and I really felt little or no connection to God at church. The further I get away from church, the more I realize how psychically draining the experience really was. I guess from a Lutheran perspective, I'm a Christian due to my baptism and my feelings don't change that... and that's fine with me.
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