I'm Not Saved, Am I...?

[rubyinprogress]

"How did you become a Christian?"
The answer: I had anxiety attacks and decided to pray to God and He turned my focus away from my problems and unto Him and I found out that accepting Jesus was the only way to get to Heaven doesn't necessarily suffice when you've doubted as much and as severely as I have.

No human or kind words can feel the void of awkwardness or upset that I feel when listening to people ecstatically exclaim their personal testimony of how they were in a bad place and Jesus "turned their life around", whilst I have a response like above (previously stated).

Romans 10:9...confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead and you shall be saved.
Of all my curiosity, I've never quite understood what that meant; to believe in your heart. How do you know when you believe? Is it a feeling? What does believe even mean, biblically speaking?

The hardest thing of all about this is that it feels deliberate. Like God has brought me this far, but I'm still on the outside looking in. Like I'm still not. Like God does not want to save me.

And of course I have the enemy on my back saying "give up"..."give up already". But hellbound is not a place we ought to be.

Why is this happening, though?

I pray for faith, belief, and a heart of repentance.
I pray for my desire to sin to end.
I pray for God to make me realize deep down in this black pit of my heart that I AM a sinner and I NEED a Savior and that Savior is the ONLY way into heaven.
I pray for my heart to change.
I pray to be overwhelmed and brought down with tears and thanksgiving for what Jesus did.
I want to be overwhelmed by God's glory.
I want to want.
I want to desire more righteousness.
I want to be more righteous.
I pray for all of this.
I pray..
...........and pray...
.............................and pray.

But God hasn't necessarily answered me.

Why is this happening?

Why doesn't God help me? Why doesn't God answer me? Why do I still feel, think, and believe like I am not saved? I don't know where I'll end up when I die....

Why doesn't God change that?

To answer part of your question...belief is simply a choice. Faith is believing something we can't necessarily touch or prove. "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" Hebrews 11:1. We all have a mix of belief and doubt. In fact doubt really is a type of belief...it is belief in the opposite. Such as "I believe it will be sunny tomorrow, but it might rain." Your will is the fulcrum. You decide where to direct your belief. Perhaps that is why it feels as though you are not getting answers to your prayers. The fact is He has already given you the faith you need but now it is up to you to choose what to do with it. Boil it down to simple yes or no answers...no maybes. Choose to answer these questions with a yes or a no.

Are you a sinner? (keep in mind even a white lie is a sin and if we are guilty of breaking one of God's laws it is the same as breaking all of them).

Did Jesus pay the price for your sin?

Do you accept that payment?

Will you devote your life to living for the One who died for you?

 

[merrykate]

The Orthodox understanding of salvation, which goes back to Christianity's earliest beliefs, is beautiful, and Eastern Orthodox Christians do not espouse the fire-and-brimstone of western Christian traditions. Much of what they believe hits my own identity as a Quaker Christian, but that is for another thread.

I would suggest, dear Hannah, that you seek treatment for OCD and anxiety while also shifting your focus from fire-and-brimstone theology to reading testimonies from early and contemporary Christians who embrace a peaceful and loving God. Billy Graham and Max Lucado are comforting mainline Protestant voices, but other wonderfully hope-filled Christian writers include C.S.Lewis, George MacDonald (my personal favorite and who Lewis cites as his greatest earthly teacher), and Richard Rohr.

In the Light,

Kate

 

[Anguspure]

These passages seem to provide an answer to the standard of belief for salvation:

Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,f 15that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” 9So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.

Just keep looking to Him for your salvation. He loves you and will keep his promise.

 

[leefentress]

The Orthodox understanding of salvation, which goes back to Christianity's earliest beliefs, is beautiful, and Eastern Orthodox Christians do not espouse the fire-and-brimstone of western Christian traditions. Much of what they believe hits my own identity as a Quaker Christian, but that is for another thread.

I would suggest, dear Hannah, that you seek treatment for OCD and anxiety while also shifting your focus from fire-and-brimstone theology to reading testimonies from early and contemporary Christians who embrace a peaceful and loving God. Billy Graham and Max Lucado are comforting mainline Protestant voices, but other wonderfully hope-filled Christian writers include C.S.Lewis, George MacDonald (my personal favorite and who Lewis cites as his greatest earthly teacher), and Richard Rohr.

In the Light,

Kate

Okay, looks like I don't need to say much more. Kate's just pointed you in the right direction for sure!

I'll just briefly say what I believe, and maybe it will give you some things to think about.

There's sometimes a difference between what is real and what is real to you. You were saved before the foundation of the world because Jesus is the lamb slain before the foundation of the world. Your salvation isn't contingent on your belief. Faith is not the price tag of salvation. However, if you happen to actually believe that Jesus already saved you, your salvation becomes real to you. It was already real, before time ever began, and when you finally believe it, that's the moment when it becomes real to you. Sometimes we read these Scriptures that say things like "believe and you will be saved," or "those who hold firm to the end will be saved" and we think it's giving us a formula to somehow obtain our own salvation by our own will. the truth is, when you believe, you do experience your salvation first-hand, but it's a salvation you already had before you even knew you had it and before you even believed you had it. it isn't incorrect to say "believe and you will be saved" just like it isn't incorrect to say "open your Christmas present on Christmas morning, and then you'll have your present." the good news is that the Christmas present already had your name on it, and was already sitting there under your Christmas tree waiting for you to discover it.

Look up some Trinitarian theologians like Thomas Torrance, Francois du Toit, and Karl Barth. Also, check out George MacDonald, Richard Rohr, and C.S. Lewis for sure. There's a lot that's been said on this whole subject that for some reason seems to have escaped a huge portion of Sunday-morning going Christians, pastors and Sunday school teachers alike.

I know it's this whole belief thing you're having trouble with, though, in the first place. But the good news is, you don't have to believe in order to be saved. Jesus already saved you single-handedly on the Cross. A lot of well-meaning people try to drum up their own faith to re-accomplish something Jesus already did. He already did it. When we trust that He did -- that's when we experience the new birth. It's not about somehow obtaining a get out of hell card. It's not about anything like that at all. Jesus did what He did precisely so that we wouldn't have to do anything at all. He did it all. He even believes for us, on our behalf, and prays for us on our behalf, when we can't do it ourselves. Torrance calls Jesus the "vicarious man" speaking of how in the Incarnation, He became humanity, and lives as humanity, and meets all of humanity's requirements. That includes all the way right down to our faith and belief. When we are weak, He is strong.

I've got tons more I would love to say about all this, Hannah! Just let me know if you would like to continue the conversation. Another interesting fellow to check out on YouTube is this guy, John Crowder: https://www.youtube.com/user/SonsofThunderPub/videos - I would totally suggest watching all his videos.

 

[merrykate]

Couldn't have said it better, Lee! Such ideas may seem foreign to you, Hannah, as they once were to me, but they encompass such as deep presence within Christian thought and history but have somehow gone unnoticed by so many.

So look more deeply into treating your OCD and anxiety, try some of the authors we mentioned (I can't speak highly enough of George MacDonald), focus on the God of Love, and know those here are all praying for your peace and understanding.

 

[Tellastory]

"How did you become a Christian?"
The answer: I had anxiety attacks and decided to pray to God and He turned my focus away from my problems and unto Him and I found out that accepting Jesus was the only way to get to Heaven doesn't necessarily suffice when you've doubted as much and as severely as I have.

No human or kind words can feel the void of awkwardness or upset that I feel when listening to people ecstatically exclaim their personal testimony of how they were in a bad place and Jesus "turned their life around", whilst I have a response like above (previously stated).

Romans 10:9...confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead and you shall be saved.
Of all my curiosity, I've never quite understood what that meant; to believe in your heart. How do you know when you believe? Is it a feeling? What does believe even mean, biblically speaking?

John 1:12-13 testifies that even those that believe even in His name, are saved. So even if your belief/your faith is like a mustard seed, trust Him that it shall grow.

The hardest thing of all about this is that it feels deliberate. Like God has brought me this far, but I'm still on the outside looking in. Like I'm still not. Like God does not want to save me.

You would not even be bothered by whethor or not you truly "whole heartedly" believe in Him if you were not saved if God was not interested in saving you at all. John 3:18-21 testifies that those that do not come to the light will not believe nor care to believe because they prefer their evil deeds rather than come to the light to be reproved of them. That means, sinners that prefer their evil deeds would not be bothered about saying they do not believe in Jesus Christ at all.

And of course I have the enemy on my back saying "give up"..."give up already". But hellbound is not a place we ought to be.

If the devil is on your back, it is only because you are saved, and the devil just wants to tempt you to stop praying to Jesus for help in walking in the light.

Why is this happening, though?

Spiritual warfare for not being rooted in His words as kept in the King James Bible so that the enemy can't work his way on you by making you doubt you truly believe and thus fear that you are not truly saved and then tempt you to give up asking Jesus for help in following Him in being His disciple.

Salvation & discipleship are two different things for a believer to apply faith in Jesus for.

I apply faith in Jesus Christ as my Saviour that I am saved simply for believing in Him as promised by Him ( John 3:14-16 & John 6:38-40 ).

And thask to Him, I apply faith in Jesus as my Good Shepherd that He will help me to follow Him ( Philippians 1:6-11 & 1 John 3:3 & 8 & 2 Timothy 4:18 & Jude 1:24-24 ).

I pray for faith, belief, and a heart of repentance.
I pray for my desire to sin to end.
I pray for God to make me realize deep down in this black pit of my heart that I AM a sinner and I NEED a Savior and that Savior is the ONLY way into heaven.
I pray for my heart to change.
I pray to be overwhelmed and brought down with tears and thanksgiving for what Jesus did.
I want to be overwhelmed by God's glory.
I want to want.
I want to desire more righteousness.
I want to be more righteous.
I pray for all of this.
I pray..
...........and pray...
.............................and pray.

But God hasn't necessarily answered me.

You have His righteousness simply by believing in Him. You have been bought with a price and sealed as His. Faith is the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 Ad it is without faith, it is impossible to please God ( Hebrews 11:6 ) and so even if you believe in a little bit like a mustard seed, you will grow in that faith as you trust Him to help you keep on trusting Him.

Why is this happening?

Why doesn't God help me? Why doesn't God answer me? Why do I still feel, think, and believe like I am not saved? I don't know where I'll end up when I die....

Why doesn't God change that?

Spiritual warfare. Read more of His words/ of His promises to you to grow in Him ( some of those references do cite some promises from Him ) He will help you to prune away those things that sows to the flesh and help you put your mind on good things.

2 Timothy 4:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

One time, I was misled into making a "covenant" with my mouth to stop habitually cussing, but the very next day, I was worse than I ever was before. The devil was on me to say "You are not His. If you were His, He would have helped you to keep your covenant." I had stopped lsitening to teh devil but being at my wits end, I prayed to God asking, "Why aren't you helping me? You know I do not want to do this."

He answered, "You made the covenant. You said you were going to do it. I made the Covenant with you & I said I am going to do it. All I asked from you is to believe in Me."

From that day, I was humbled by the Lord and eventually, He led me to stop habitually cuss and set me free from my commitment to follow Christ & all other vain promises I had made to rest in His promises to me and that is how I have been getting to know Him & the power of His resurrection when I surrender by denying myself as able to acknowledging my need for Him to help me to follow Him.

You are saved even if you believe in Him a little bit, like just in His name ( John 1:12-13 )

Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. 24 And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.

May others believers as well as I pray, for you so that the Lord will support you in your ordeal and give you a peace that passes all understanding.

 

[aus22]

While I think if you repent you can b forgiven of past sins I do not think being born again means you are forgiven of future sins.

 

[Catherineanne]

Do you think it's possible that some souls are unable to believe? I am not saying by any means whatsoever that it is "hard to believe" (like not wanting to believe whatsoever) I'm saying like metaphorically speaking I jump from one side of a cliff to reach the otherside and I don't make it kind of thing...like I physically cannot make myself believe. I'm crying now with the inability. Which stems to the point of reasoning of posting this... I pray for belief and I don't get any feedback...per se.

When any of us reaches this point (and it happens to us all) then we should turn to a trusted minister or Christian friend. Sometimes God likes to remind us that we are a community; a Church of faith. We cannot survive long on our own, without the support and encouragment of other believers, and without the protection of a good shepherd.

Choose your minister very carefully, and then take concerns like this one to him or her. If your minister listens to you, prays with you and offers you reassurance, then listen to that very carefully. God may speak through words of comfort this way, if we cannot hear him any other way.

I wish you well.

 

[MoreCoffee]

...
Why is this happening, though?

I pray for faith, belief, and a heart of repentance.
I pray for my desire to sin to end.
I pray for God to make me realize deep down in this black pit of my heart that I AM a sinner and I NEED a Savior and that Savior is the ONLY way into heaven.
I pray for my heart to change.
I pray to be overwhelmed and brought down with tears and thanksgiving for what Jesus did.
I want to be overwhelmed by God's glory.
I want to want.
I want to desire more righteousness.
I want to be more righteous.
I pray for all of this.
I pray..
...........and pray...
.............................and pray.​

But God hasn't necessarily answered me.
Why is this happening?
Why doesn't God help me? Why doesn't God answer me? Why do I still feel, think, and believe like I am not saved? I don't know where I'll end up when I die....
Why doesn't God change that?

God answers questions and prayers asking for wisdom and knowledge in the holy scriptures. Careful reading of the scriptures will help but it will not fill a void. Prayerful reading of the scriptures will help but it will not bring peace. Faithful reading of the scriptures will fill a void and bring peace. Faith is when you believe what you're reading in the scriptures and take it to heart by accepting it as true and changing the way you think and act according to what the scriptures teach. Be obedient to the commands and fear the threats. Patiently listen to the teaching taking it in with trust in what is said.

Believing what you read is not seeing glory or being overwhelmed or any of the things that are sensational. Belief is listening and accepting what the scriptures tell you. If there's darkness and struggle then there is darkness and struggle - most christians experience these.

If you are looking for a foundation to build upon then take the promises of God and believe them. Those promises are not conditioned on performance. One doesn't get them because of trying hard, praying hard, repenting hard. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved, said saint Paul to the Philippian Jailer, you and your household. Read the story in The Acts of the Apostles chapter sixteen it starts at verse twelve.

 

[Grace101]

Hannah,

A video that might be of some help:

 

[1watchman]

Do you think it's possible that some souls are unable to believe? I am not saying by any means whatsoever that it is "hard to believe" (like not wanting to believe whatsoever) I'm saying like metaphorically speaking I jump from one side of a cliff to reach the otherside and I don't make it kind of thing...like I physically cannot make myself believe. I'm crying now with the inability. Which stems to the point of reasoning of posting this... I pray for belief and I don't get any feedback...per se.

Believing in God is first to receive His beloved Son --the Lord Jesus, into one's heart ( a personal relationship). The issue is whether one wants to have a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus, or just go on with intellectual reasoning. God says: "He that has the Son, has (eternal) life" (I Jn. 5:10-12). Read prayerfully John 14 in your Bible.

 

[gracemama]

Wow! Hannah, you are so cute!

<< Romans 10:9...confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead and you shall be saved. >>

"Believe in your heart" is great, but look at the beginning: Confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord.

Confess means "SAY IT OUT LOUD."
So say it out loud: Jesus is Lord. Make it personal: Jesus is My Lord.
You found a Bible verse. That's good! There are two parts to it, and you only did one. Do the other half!

You asked "How does faith work?" Well... THAT'S how.

BOTTOM LINE IS, FAITH COMES BY HEARING, AND HEARING BY THE WORD OF GOD.
(Jesus IS the Word, remember? The Word made flesh...)

1. What Does the Word Say? (ALWAYS the #1 question. Find it in the Bible. You did that. WELL DONE!)
2. Say it Out Loud. (No matter how you feel. Discipline your mouth to SAY what God says. How serious are you?)
3. Believe in Your Heart. (If there's a problem, then KEEP doing #2 - ha! - until you DO believe it in your heart.
Sorry for the #2 joke. But...it's funny. "Keep doing #2." good advice, right? )

Ok, so do that and your heart will eventually believe it...

Hannah, if you're still around.... I know you want real answers. Question: Is God a liar? Answer: NO.
Then what makes you so "special" that it doesn't work for YOU? LOL

LOL YOU are so darn cute! Start reading the Gospel of John. It'll change your life.
Hey, just for fun read it out loud! Like, to your cat or something. God will show up.

Last thing: Use OCD to your advantage. (I have it too.)
Say this, no less than 100 times a day:
Jesus IS my Lord!
Jesus IS my Lord!
Jesus IS my Lord!
Jesus IS my Lord!
Jesus IS my Lord!
Jesus IS my Lord!.... like that. Big hugs!! You are just adorable, sweetie! You really are!

 

[HannahElizaW]

Choose your minister very carefully, and then take concerns like this one to him or her. If your minister listens to you, prays with you and offers you reassurance, then listen to that very carefully. God may speak through words of comfort this way, if we cannot hear him any other way.

I wish you well.

Thank you for this advice.

 

[HannahElizaW]

Careful reading of the scriptures will help but it will not fill a void. Prayerful reading of the scriptures will help but it will not bring peace. Faithful reading of the scriptures will fill a void and bring peace. Faith is when you believe what you're reading in the scriptures and take it to heart by accepting it as true and changing the way you think and act according to what the scriptures teach.

I actually dwelled on this at work today. Thank you so much for this. I should keep that in mind more often..

 

[HannahElizaW]

Read prayerfully John 14 in your Bible.

i sure will try that..

 

[HannahElizaW]

Say this, no less than 100 times a day:
Jesus IS my Lord!
Jesus IS my Lord!
Jesus IS my Lord!
Jesus IS my Lord!
Jesus IS my Lord!
Jesus IS my Lord!.... like that.

Thank you for this!!

 

[Pal Handy]

"How did you become a Christian?"
The answer: I had anxiety attacks and decided to pray to God and He turned my focus away from my problems and unto Him and I found out that accepting Jesus was the only way to get to Heaven doesn't necessarily suffice when you've doubted as much and as severely as I have.

No human or kind words can feel the void of awkwardness or upset that I feel when listening to people ecstatically exclaim their personal testimony of how they were in a bad place and Jesus "turned their life around", whilst I have a response like above (previously stated).

Romans 10:9...confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead and you shall be saved.
Of all my curiosity, I've never quite understood what that meant; to believe in your heart. How do you know when you believe? Is it a feeling? What does believe even mean, biblically speaking?

The hardest thing of all about this is that it feels deliberate. Like God has brought me this far, but I'm still on the outside looking in. Like I'm still not. Like God does not want to save me.

And of course I have the enemy on my back saying "give up"..."give up already". But hellbound is not a place we ought to be.

Why is this happening, though?

I pray for faith, belief, and a heart of repentance.
I pray for my desire to sin to end.
I pray for God to make me realize deep down in this black pit of my heart that I AM a sinner and I NEED a Savior and that Savior is the ONLY way into heaven.
I pray for my heart to change.
I pray to be overwhelmed and brought down with tears and thanksgiving for what Jesus did.
I want to be overwhelmed by God's glory.
I want to want.
I want to desire more righteousness.
I want to be more righteous.
I pray for all of this.
I pray..
...........and pray...
.............................and pray.

But God hasn't necessarily answered me.

Why is this happening?

Why doesn't God help me? Why doesn't God answer me? Why do I still feel, think, and believe like I am not saved? I don't know where I'll end up when I die....

Why doesn't God change that?

You doubt because you are listening to your own fears and doubts instead of
believing what God says.

If someone you should trust tells you something like tomorrow I will come over
and pick you up for lunch, do you doubt they will do what they say?
Would you call them every five minute asking them when they are coming
or why they haven't arrived yet?

God shows up on His time table, not ours.
God said He will show up but He doesn't tell us when.
It takes faith to wait upon the Lord and to do what He has said He will do.

God can be trusted far beyond anyone else.

So you might say: why hasn't God done what I have asked Him to do in the
time frame I have set for Him?

God would say: Trust in Me through faith in Christ and I will do it in my timing but while you are waiting,
read My word and build up your faith in me by seeking out others who believe and
who have been down the road you are now on, who will pray with you and give you
Godly council based on My word and not on your fear, feelings or emotions.

God uses others to accomplish His will in our lives.
All the early believers were mentored or discipled by those who
were strong in faith and who knew God's word and so this pattern continues today.

Are you trying to do this on your own?
If you are, you are not following the pattern God has given us from the beginning.

If you believe in Christ, that He is the son of God and that His words are true,
His promises are not hollow and that He has the power to save you,
then all you can do at this point is wait in Faith for Him to move in your life as you seek
Him and His will for your life by reading the New testament, getting with other believers
and denying the negative inner or outer voices that try to tell you God is a liar.

God will reward your faith but if you are constantly vasilating, you really are not in faith
and so until you comit to believe that God is not a liar and that Christ is God's way to Himself, you will struggle.

Determine in your heart that God is incapable of a lie and stand on the truth of Christ.

Counter the negative thoughts by reading God's word, listening to sermons on salvation
and faith in Christ and find a Bible believing church that will give you God's word, prayer support and Godly council.

God will show up for you if you will determine in your heart to believe Him at His word,
not put Him on your time table while you wait upon Him and you read His word, go to church and seek out believers who can support you and help you to grow in faith.

Hope this helps you...

 

[Catherineanne]

Thank you for this advice.

You are welcome. Take care. x

 

[MoreCoffee]

I actually dwelled on this at work today. Thank you so much for this. I should keep that in mind more often..

I hope it helps.

 

[sunshine456]

First off I would like to commend you on your writing skills. They are quite exceptional.

Secondly; everyone should have a conscience and healthy concern about their salvation. In our faith and works by the belief in JESUS the son of GOD and his raising from the dead we are saved. This coincides with our FOLLOWING as this "following" is in acts of repentance and LOVE that strengthen us. We are resound and steadfast in the faith and remain in it.

John 14:6-10King James Version (KJV)
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Without JESUS the son of GOD most high whom is the truth, "how can we see clearly?"

.....and yes there is the devil, whom is roaring around us like a lion seeking whom it can devour. I would assume that all the more are they that profess and believe in the TRUTH, that they hear ROARING in the extreme. I personally know all to well of it and am helpless without JESUS the son of GOD.

He is the high priest of his church, he is the heir to the throne and the savior. We reflect on Job when trials are difficult and when we don't understand, and that is why we lean not on our own understanding, but on the grace of GOD through his son lord JESUS CHRIST.

Faith, hope and LOVE; the greatest of these three are LOVE!

Praise be to GOD the heavenly father and his son lord JESUS CHRIST forever>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>