I'm Not Saved, Am I...?

dduc996 · May 31, 2015

Thanks.

I admire your interest in the Word of God at such a young age - keep it up.
I'm trying to understand your questions , so forgive me if I don't.
My advise , look to those of old , folks with some age to them. So many in our modern day of church worship and preaching are so far away from Biblical Truth it ain't funny.
But with your issue - I still think of my first post , it's all by faith - "THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH".......it's never works. You may have good works as a result of your salvation but your works are never the glue that holds it together , it's your faith in the finished work of Christ on the Cross.
You will never be "good" enough , but He is.
You can never "do" enough , He's done it all.

Matthew 6:33 (KJV)
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Rest in Him. ☺

HannahElizaW · May 31, 2015

Hospes said:
Faith is something God grows in his children. I see nothing in your posts that tells me the process has never begun. You seem to be a sensitive 17-year old really desiring to experience God more. Nothing wrong with that and a whole lot right with it.

That seems nice in all....
..but nothing seems to be helping me out of this rut. I constantly constantly constantly feel like deep down inside I don't really care. And all these posts? I constantly feel like I don't really mean it. So right now I'm crying my eyes out rocking back and forth wanting to care and wanting to mean it. I want to repent. I want to be saved. I want to have faith. What I don't want are these feelings and thoughts telling me otherwise...

...I don't feel like I mean it..

HannahElizaW · May 31, 2015

Kirsten said:
I personally would not recommend attending any church that has certain qualifications for you to be a member or requires membership at all.

My church doesn't require membership.

Hospes · May 31, 2015

HannahElizaW said:
That seems nice in all....
..but nothing seems to be helping me out of this rut. I constantly constantly constantly feel like deep down inside I don't really care. And all these posts? I constantly feel like I don't really mean it. So right now I'm crying my eyes out rocking back and forth wanting to care and wanting to mean it. I want to repent. I want to be saved. I want to have faith. What I don't want are these feelings and thoughts telling me otherwise...

...I don't feel like I mean it..

You dear child. Don't you see even the wanting is a grace from God? Do you think you can desire to desire Him without his having a hand in it? You and I are prone to sin, not prone to desire God. Even the wish to desire him has his fingerprints on it.

By the way, though it was many years ago, I remember crying my eyes out, rocking, and wishing I was the person he called me to be. Take it from a crusty old Christian: God is the God Who Sees and he understands your suffering, confusion, and the intricacies of your heart perfectly; even better than you. You are not alone, even though it seems the heavens are shut tight.

dduc996 · May 31, 2015

This is for you Hannah.

HannahElizaW · May 31, 2015

Hospes said:
Do you think you can desire to desire Him without his having a hand in it?

What does that even mean to say He has His hand on me? My parents believe in the Predestination doctrine and a lot of the times when I come to them struggling they say "you would not be worrying if God doesn't have His finger on it. You wouldn't be worrying if He hasn't chosen you." What does that even mean? God doesn't have an elect!? If He did, He wouldn't be putting His description as A Loving God throughout His Word!? Predestination basically sounds like Jesus coming down to earth and walking to someone saying "You're mom and dad are saved but no matter how hard you try, I have destined you to forever end up in hell"...
...
...That probably wasn't...what you meant at all..

Matthew Twentyfour · May 31, 2015

I would be careful listening to people that say "it's only by faith and never works." You need to have both. They're trying to be helpful but their understanding of salvation is at a elementary level. In fact, they need help too.

Demons also have faith and believe in God. The devil also believe in God....and does nothing good.

James 2:18-19
18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!

James 2:14 My brothers and sisters, if people say they have faith, but do nothing, their faith is worth nothing. Can faith like that save them?

James 2:17 In the same way, faith by itself—that does nothing—is dead.

James 2:20 You foolish person! Must you be shown that faith that does nothing is worth nothing?

James 2:21-22
21 Abraham, our ancestor, was made right with God by what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar. 22 So you see that Abraham’s faith and the things he did worked together. His faith was made perfect by what he did.

James 2:24 So you see that people are made right with God by what they do, not by faith only.

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

When Christ returns with His reward, it will be reward for our works, not faith alone.

Revelation 22:12 “And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

Mister_Al · May 31, 2015

God created (elected) a plan to save mankind before He created the Earth. Those that decide (elect) to accept it and be saved are called God's elect. God didn't choose for certain people to be saved and some to not be saved, He left it up to the choice of the individual. If you're saved it's because you elected to accept God's plan of salvation and do what He set forth for you to do to be saved. Just do some research in your Bible and determine for yourself what God's plan of salvation really is.

God isn't going to choose one person to be saved and reject the other one--He is not a respecter of persons and He hasn't changed His mind about His plan.

Blessings,

Alan

St Antony · May 31, 2015

HannahElizaW said:
Romans 10:9...confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead and you shall be saved.
Of all my curiosity, I've never quite understood what that meant; to believe in your heart. How do you know when you believe? Is it a feeling? What does believe even mean, biblically speaking?

Implicit in "believing in your heart" is a commitment to follow Jesus. Jesus teaches us a way of life that goes with believing in Jesus' sacrifice for us. We follow the roadmap set forth in the Gospels for all of our life with fear and trembling with the desire to ultimately join him in heaven. The Church is there to help us with this lifelong journey. I encourage you to go contact your local priest and learn more about Jesus' message and the way of life he calls us to live. Once you understand it better, getting baptized and joining the church will be so much greater than anything you can imagine now!

FireDragon76 · May 31, 2015

I was baptized in a Methodist church. As far as I'm concerned, that was when God saved me. But that's my belief, and of course not all Christians are going to agree with it. But it was common to Christians until the Baptists came along. Now days I attend Episcopal and Lutheran churches, mainline ones like ELCA or TEC.

You can't be sure you believe. Nobody can be that sure. Especially if you are a broken sort of person, prone to fear or worry. Which is exactly why a sacramental type church may be just your thing. Jesus set up these sacraments precisely so we would have assurance of his love towards us, and to free us from worrying about ourselves and to teach us to love others.

We can turn to the promises Christ made to us in our baptism and know he gives us the faith we need. We don't have to worry about whether we believe, if we doubt, we can look to Jesus promise in our baptism and the Lord's Supper, ask God in prayer to show us the sins that grieve him the most so that we can repent of them. It's not that hard, it is mostly a "heart" thing, not a head thing- an intimate relationship with a person, not an intellectual exercise or fire-insurance.

If you are baptized in the name of the Holy Trinity, Jesus has marked you as his own forever. The only way you can lose that is if you say "no thanks, I don't care". But obviously you do care. You just need to find better teaching and preaching.

I'd look for a church with a good pastor or priest that can deal with your spiritual problems and offer you assurance in preaching or in individual counselling. A Lutheran church might be just what you need- you mentioned OCD and its obvious to many historians Luther suffered from the same thing (as did many catholics during the time period). Proper preaching and views of the sacraments are good antidotes to religious worry.

dduc996 · Jun 1, 2015

Matthew Twentyfour said:
I would be careful listening to people that say "it's only by faith and never works." You need to have both. They're trying to be helpful but their understanding of salvation is at a elementary level. In fact, they need help too.

Everything we receive from God is by faith. Works are fine and good and have there place in the Christians life ,but they bare NO value on one's salvation.
One need only look at the thief on the cross - he was neither baptized nor did any good works.....just had his faith.

The doctrine on unconditional eternal security , once saved always saved , and that God predestines some to hell and others to heaven - all these have actually dammed more souls then any one single doctrine.

Hannah, turn your eyes towards Jesus , look to the Cross , trust in His Word , lean on His mercy and grace , all by faith.

Romans 5:1 (KJV) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Matthew Twentyfour · Jun 1, 2015

dduc996 said:
Everything we receive from God is by faith. Works are fine and good and have there place in the Christians life ,but they bare NO value on one's salvation.
One need only look at the thief on the cross - he was neither baptized nor did any good works.....just had his faith.

The doctrine on unconditional eternal security , once saved always saved , and that God predestines some to hell and others to heaven - all these have actually dammed more souls then any one single doctrine.

Hannah, turn your eyes towards Jesus , look to the Cross , trust in His Word , lean on His mercy and grace , all by faith.

Romans 5:1 (KJV) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

How does faith alone help you take up your cross? You're not worthy of Him if you don't.

Matthew 10:38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

Look at His disciples, Judas in particular. Judas believed in Christ. Did his faith save him? Is Judas now in the same place where the other disciples are?

Faith is more than just believing. It's a continuous act of obedience in our Lord Jesus throughout our life. The moment Judas stopped following Christ and followed his desire for 30 pieces of silver was when he lost his salvation.

You can't pick and choose whatever scripture you want to believe. You're not truly saved by accepting one scripture while ignoring another. The bible explicitly said you need both faith and works to be obedient.

Faith alone is not obedience. If Christ tells you to do something and you do whatever you want, that's not believing in Christ. He said follow me, not yourself.

Luke 9:23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.

Goodbook · Jun 1, 2015

Ok Hannah, I see you really struggling.
And your signature even quotes 'Lord help me in my unbelief!' all us christians here want to help you see.
I will make it simple. Scripture says...
to believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead.

When we believe, we can say this, no problem. God raised Jesus from the dead! Try it.
The thing is, it don't matter if we don't mean it, or feel like we don't mean it. Those doubts are kind of you know, we didn't actually see it, but we just believe it cos it's an actual fact. It's written in the Bible. And those that wrote the gospels, they saw it, they weren't lying about it. Believing is the first step to trusting in God.

Some help. If you go to Israel..there's an empty tomb where Jesus lay. Now if ppl were lying about Jesus, if God hadn't raised him, we'd be able to see or have evidence of his body right? But no body is there. Where did it go? People say it was stolen...but why would someone steal it and then pretend it was raised? Are all christians lying? Is the Bible a lie? Chairman Maos' body is in a tomb in China propped up for all to see - he's really dead.
All the places and things in the Bible are real and happened. Now we weren't there at the time but we have evidence that it all happened just as Jesus disciples and eyewitnesses recorded. The Bible has been preserved for thousands of years...if it was a lie, wouldn't it have been exposed as such by now?

Have a think about this and get back. Rebuke any kind of thought that is saying God is a liar. You know the truth, I just think you have a hard time declaring it. When we declare it, something happens. Out of your heart, you believe, and you can say it.

LovebirdsFlying · Jun 1, 2015

Without having read the previous posts, my take on this is that the Scripture says believe *in your heart.* Your heart already believes, or you wouldn't care. Anxiety is is your brain playing tricks on you, and has nothing to do with your heart.

"Heart," too, is of course meant spiritually, and it's not about the organ that pumps our blood. That's why John said, "For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things." First John 3:20. I think he was addressing anxiety there. He basically said we may have those feelings, but they are only feelings, not facts.

dduc996 · Jun 1, 2015

Matthew Twentyfour said:
How does faith alone help you take up your cross? You're not worthy of Him if you don't.

Matthew 10:38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me.

Look at His disciples, Judas in particular. Judas believed in Christ. Did his faith save him? Is Judas now in the same place where the other disciples are?

Faith is more than just believing. It's a continuous act of obedience in our Lord Jesus throughout our life. The moment Judas stopped following Christ and followed his desire for 30 pieces of silver was when he lost his salvation.

You can't pick and choose whatever scripture you want to believe. You're not truly saved by accepting one scripture while ignoring another. The bible explicitly said you need both faith and works to be obedient.

Faith alone is not obedience. If Christ tells you to do something and you do whatever you want, that's not believing in Christ. He said follow me, not yourself.

Luke 9:23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me.

23 And He said to them all, If any man will come after Me (the criteria for Discipleship), let him deny himself (not asceticism as many think, but rather that one denies one’s own willpower, selfwill, strength, and ability, depending totally on Christ), and take up his cross (the benefits of the Cross, looking exclusively to what Jesus did there to meet our every need) daily (this is so important, our looking to the Cross; that we must renew our Faith in what Christ has done for us, even on adaily basis, for Satan will ever try to move us away from the Cross as the Object of our Faith, which always spells disaster), and follow Me (Christ can be followed only by the Believer looking to the Cross, understanding what it accomplished, and by that means alone........BY FAITH LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOOST.

Not picking and choosing , never said works are not important - THERE NOT A CRITERIA FOR ONES SALVATION.

dduc996 · Jun 1, 2015

I can name scores of family and friends that have given up on the Bible , Jesus , the Church , all because they fell under the notion that they just could never be good enough or do enough "good" things - that's a Jehovah Witness way of salvation.

As far as Judas go's , he was never born again , he never truly believed Jesus was who He said He was....The Messiah. He never wanted the Master , only what was on the Masters table. Judas wouldnt have sold Him out if he truly believed who Jesus was.

HannahElizaW · Jun 1, 2015

St Antony said:
Implicit in "believing in your heart" is a commitment to follow Jesus.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

HannahElizaW · Jun 1, 2015

Goodbook said:
When we believe, we can say this, no problem. God raised Jesus from the dead! Try it.

God raised Jesus from the dead!

The thing is, it don't matter if we don't mean it, or feel like we don't mean it.

But that's the thing. I can't escape it. If it was doubt that'd be one thing but I'm concerned as to why I feel like I don't mean it or why I feel like I'm beginning to not care as much as I once did. That is an unpleasant feeling, right there.

Those doubts are kind of you know, we didn't actually see it, but we just believe it cos it's an actual fact. It's written in the Bible. And those that wrote the gospels, they saw it, they weren't lying about it. Believing is the first step to trusting in God.

True..

HannahElizaW · Jun 1, 2015

LovebirdsFlying said:
Your heart already believes, or you wouldn't care. Anxiety is is your brain playing tricks on you, and has nothing to do with your heart.

That's what my mother keeps telling me...

I think he was addressing anxiety there. He basically said we may have those feelings, but they are only feelings, not facts.

Feelings like "I don't care as much as I used to"..? This might have been a referral to the original post but only recently have I been experiencing these other feelings..

Goodbook · Jun 1, 2015

Hallelujah! Say again. You know its true, declare its true.

Also you know its true cos we are going to be resurrected with HIM and then you will actually feel its true. Cos we will be changed in our glorified bodies. Till now now until that day you must have faith that is true.

Can i ask have you been baptised in water? The reason why Jesus was and all believers are is cos this act symbolises our repentence, and being buried and raised to life. When we believe and do this, the actual act of going under water, getting all soaking wet, means we can physically feel or experience this..cleansing. All the dirt gets dissolved.

Another scripture that spoke to me at this time was the one in Ezekiel about God giving us a NEW heart of flesh to replace our one of stone. A hard heart cannot feel but a soft one can.

I'm Not Saved, Am I...?

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