I'm Dying So Please Open This Thread

[Paradoxum]

I think you mean that all real experiences are received and interpreted by the brain. I experienced going for a bike ride today. If I had fallen down and landed on my face, the experience of that wouldn't come from my brain, but rather from the pavement, and then interpreted by my brain as unpleasant.

I'd say the brain is the important bit that makes it an experience. If I drop my laptop it wont say 'ouch'. The brain is what makes an event an experience.

We also know (from dreams) that the brain can just make experiences up.

So my point is that it's a certain state in the brain that makes an experience seem real. If the same state occurred without a physical event actually happening, it would still feel real.

 

[Aldebaran]

Do you believe those, who claim to have been abducted by aliens in their home and taken aboard an alien craft and probed with medical instruments? Some of these people have passed lie detector tests have genuine consistent recollections under hypnosis. Do you believe them, why or why not?

I have no reason to doubt those experiences as being real. I don't know if they were alien ships or government laboratories or demonic possession. But enough people have reported such things to give it validity.

 

[bhsmte]

I have no reason to doubt those experiences as being real. I don't know if they were alien ships or government laboratories or demonic possession. But enough people have reported such things to give it validity.

I don't doubt at all, that those reported experiences were perceived as very real to the people who experienced them.

Now, whether they truly happened or not, I highly doubt.

 

[Aldebaran]

I don't doubt at all, that those reported experiences were perceived as very real to the people who experienced them.

Now, whether they truly happened or not, I highly doubt.

So many people reporting the same thing?

I've heard of people reporting strange lights in the sky and being called crazy for it. But what if 100 people report seeing it? Did 100 people have the same perception without it being a reality? That seems to be the idea of people having a "perception that is real to them" with the implication being that what they perceived wasn't reality.

 

[bhsmte]

So many people reporting the same thing?

I've heard of people reporting strange lights in the sky and being called crazy for it. But what if 100 people report seeing it? Did 100 people have the same perception without it being a reality? That seems to be the idea of people having a "perception that is real to them" with the implication being that what they perceived wasn't reality.

I am talking about people reporting they were abducted by aliens and probed medically and or people claiming to hear voices from entities, dead people, etc. etc..

These people truly believe what they perceived and passing lie detector tests and reliving the experience under hypnosis, bears this out. It also shows, the power of the mind, to produce experiences.

Now, the UFO sighting from dozens of people are a different story. In most of those cases, they indeed saw something. Problem is, no one knows what it was or can confirm what it was.

 

[Aldebaran]

I am talking about people reporting they were abducted by aliens and probed medically and or people claiming to hear voices from entities, dead people, etc. etc..

These people truly believe what they perceived and passing lie detector tests and reliving the experience under hypnosis, bears this out. It also shows, the power of the mind, to produce experiences.

Now, the UFO sighting from dozens of people are a different story. In most of those cases, they indeed saw something. Problem is, no one knows what it was or can confirm what it was.

Maybe not. But if everything known on earth can be ruled out, then it does make you wonder, doesn't it? The point I'm trying to make is that if a great number of people (far more than 100 in the case of Christian experiences) have an experience relating to God, then I think it warrants some attention.

 

[bhsmte]

Maybe not. But if everything known on earth can be ruled out, then it does make you wonder, doesn't it? The point I'm trying to make is that if a great number of people (far more than 100 in the case of Christian experiences) have an experience relating to God, then I think it warrants some attention.

When something is indoctrinated into a person from youth, it is no surprise many people claim to have Christian experiences. God is likely the most powerful and impactful concept children learn about and it can be overwhelming and they latch on.

Trouble is, children who are born in other parts of the world, don't have Christian experiences. They tend to have religious experiences, that match what they were taught as a child; Hindu, Jewish, etc. etc. I wonder why that is?

 

[Deidre32]

The bigger thing for me is this...

If a religious person honestly perceives what he/she believes as reality, great. It's never left there, though. That religious person wants to gain acceptance from others as to their perceptions, and gain belief. And eventually, try to get them to ''experience'' the same things. That's when it becomes a problem. If you want to believe in a god, and the Bible stories, great. But, why not just leave it at that?

If someone spotted Big Foot, great. Just leave it there. Why try to get everyone to buy into YOUR experience? (when you can't prove it outright, I mean)

 

[juvenissun]

...eating, drinking and getting married [sic! ] are improper things to do?

Who said they are improper?

 

[znr]

Good point. I think humans do this, religious or not; we are wired to connect and share, and sometimes we try too hard.

If God exists he can speak to you, convince you, even romance you into experiential knowledge all by himself. And if / when that happens it's very intimate and no two relationships are the same anyway.

The bigger thing for me is this...

If a religious person honestly perceives what he/she believes as reality, great. It's never left there, though. That religious person wants to gain acceptance from others as to their perceptions, and gain belief. And eventually, try to get them to ''experience'' the same things. That's when it becomes a problem. If you want to believe in a god, and the Bible stories, great. But, why not just leave it at that?

If someone spotted Big Foot, great. Just leave it there. Why try to get everyone to buy into YOUR experience? (when you can't prove it outright, I mean)

 

[quatona]

Who said they are improper?

Well, I don´t know what the "Otherwise..." could possibly have meant in this your statement:

If you are convinced that there would not be anything of you after the death, then "eat, drink and getting married" might be proper things to do.

Otherwise ...

 

[Aldebaran]

The bigger thing for me is this...

If a religious person honestly perceives what he/she believes as reality, great. It's never left there, though. That religious person wants to gain acceptance from others as to their perceptions, and gain belief. And eventually, try to get them to ''experience'' the same things. That's when it becomes a problem. If you want to believe in a god, and the Bible stories, great. But, why not just leave it at that?

If someone spotted Big Foot, great. Just leave it there. Why try to get everyone to buy into YOUR experience? (when you can't prove it outright, I mean)

If you had a wonderful experience in your life, or you learned something that you realized changed your life for the better, wouldn't you want to share it with those around you?

 

[quatona]

If you had a wonderful experience in your life, or you learned something that you realized changed your life for the better, wouldn't you want to share it with those around you?

Sure, and I like to hear about others´ wonderful experiences.
The problem is: religious people in these forums rarely "share their wonderful experiences in their lives", but rather preach supposedly "objective truths".

 

[Aldebaran]

Sure, and I like to hear about others´ wonderful experiences.
The problem is: religious people in these forums rarely "share their wonderful experiences in their lives", but rather preach supposedly "objective truths".

If it's truth enough to convince them that it's true, then maybe there's something to it.

 

[quatona]

If it's truth enough to convince them that it's true, then maybe there's something to it.

Keyword: "maybe".
Anyway, my point still stands: You spoke of "sharing wonderful experiences" - and that is not what I typically see happening here.
What I see is insistence on their interpretation - often without even mentioning the experience.

 

[Aldebaran]

Keyword: "maybe".
Anyway, my point still stands: You spoke of "sharing wonderful experiences" - and that is not what I typically see happening here.
What I see is insistence on their interpretation - often without even mentioning the experience.

You should look at the believer sections rather than the debate section. Christians there talk to each other about their experiences. I have no reason to believe atheists in the debate section want to hear about those experiences, or even the idea that God even exists. It's more of a place for atheists to go to try to debunk the entire faith. Not very successfully, however.

 

[quatona]

You should look at the believer sections rather than the debate section.

Why should I go there when the issue in question was the way believers talk to non-believers? That´s what´s happening here.

Christians there talk to each other about their experiences.

Fine then, but how Christians talk to each other was not the subkect of discussion.

I have no reason to believe atheists in the debate section want to hear about those experiences,

...but yet you defended your approach here as "sharing your experiences".
Since you apparently have never tried to "share your experiences", but instead immediately jumped to insisting on your interpretation to be true, you obviously have no basis for anticipating how "sharing your experiences" will be received.

or even the idea that God even exists.

See? That´s your interpretation again, without any mentioning of the experiences.

It's more of a place for atheists to go to try to debunk the entire faith. Not very successfully, however.

Irrelevant for what we are discussing, and just a (poor) attempt at uncharitable mind reading.

 

[Aldebaran]

You should look at the believer sections rather than the debate section.
​

Why should I go there when the issue in question was the way believers talk to non-believers? That´s what´s happening here.

Christians there talk to each other about their experiences.
​

Fine then, but how Christians talk to each other was not the subkect of discussion.

I have no reason to believe atheists in the debate section want to hear about those experiences,
​

...but yet you defended your approach here as "sharing your experiences".
Since you apparently have never tried to "share your experiences", but instead immediately jumped to insisting on your interpretation to be true, you obviously have no basis for anticipating how "sharing your experiences" will be received.

or even the idea that God even exists.
​

See? That´s your interpretation again, without any mentioning of the experiences.

It's more of a place for atheists to go to try to debunk the entire faith. Not very successfully, however.
​

Irrelevant for what we are discussing, and just a (poor) attempt at uncharitable mind reading.

Nope! Just by reading what you and your friends write.

 

[quatona]

Nope! Just by reading what you and your friends write.

1. You don´t know who my friends are.
2. You ignored all of my points. I can only guess why that is.

 

[Deidre32]

If you had a wonderful experience in your life, or you learned something that you realized changed your life for the better, wouldn't you want to share it with those around you?

Yes, but I wouldn't tell people that if they don't feel as I do, that their fate may be threatened. That's the problem.