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If you need God for Morality, why are Atheists so underrepresented in prison pop.?
- Thread starter PeterMaclellan
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but... but... that means that the next time YOU eat or sleep, you are worshipping those other gods as well, no? Doesn't that go against the first commandment?
...or does "Others must eat or sleep" mean that you don't do those things?
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PaladinWithGun2
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I hate break into this delightlful chat on popular music and cookies and milk as godheads, but I'd like to share some experience about the original point, acquired after ten years in corrections.
The number of inmates that claim atheism is probably lower than the BOP's stats of 20%, but that also includes pagans, Satanics, and New Age mysticism. I have seldom seen inmates that do not become attracted to some kind of belief in a life beyond themselves. Sadly, a lot of those inmates attend services to look good and also facilitate the transfer of drugs and other contraband as they sing hyms and lift hands heavenwards. Some use it just as a social event...seems common outside of prison too, now that I think about it.
As a Christian, however, I do know that sometimes you have to be physically incarcerated to see how your soul is imprisoned. There are a lot of men in prison who come to realize the emptiness of the world they're living in and reach out for more. Seem to be a lot here that mock faith like mine, and there are enough sanctimonious souls who take our faith as license to claim a higher moral standard as inherent and flawless. The fact is, we are all flawed. I'm just hoping to get better, and God willing I will be one day.
The number of inmates that claim atheism is probably lower than the BOP's stats of 20%, but that also includes pagans, Satanics, and New Age mysticism. I have seldom seen inmates that do not become attracted to some kind of belief in a life beyond themselves. Sadly, a lot of those inmates attend services to look good and also facilitate the transfer of drugs and other contraband as they sing hyms and lift hands heavenwards. Some use it just as a social event...seems common outside of prison too, now that I think about it.
As a Christian, however, I do know that sometimes you have to be physically incarcerated to see how your soul is imprisoned. There are a lot of men in prison who come to realize the emptiness of the world they're living in and reach out for more. Seem to be a lot here that mock faith like mine, and there are enough sanctimonious souls who take our faith as license to claim a higher moral standard as inherent and flawless. The fact is, we are all flawed. I'm just hoping to get better, and God willing I will be one day.
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Baggins
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Th epost above got me thinking; I really don't think that morality has a lot to do with our beliefs or lack of them period.
I think there are two basics sorts of people ( and this isn't an original thought ): those who can envisage getting away with an immoral or illegal action, and those that can't envisage getting caught. I would imagine that the second group out number the first group in the prison population by some margin. But I can't see why either group would alter in ratio depending on belief. It is more likely that as atheists are more highly educated they are therefore, statistically, richer as a group and therefore less likely to turn to crime for income.
Criminals come in 2 groups as well
, those that are criminals due to circumstance, and those that are sociopaths and psychopaths .
We all, also, determine our own moral boundaries no matter how much we'd like to claim otherwise. The sheer numbers of divorced Christians shows this to be undeniable.
Personally I feel I am a very moral person but my own morality also allowed me to take drugs in the past even though it is illegal. It allows me to drive a rather fast V8 engined car above the speed limit in conditions I feel are safe ( i.e. never in built up areas ), and again this is illegal but within my moral perimeter.
I also feel our morality can be overdriven by more primal urges for things like sex especially when under the influence of drink or drugs, but I would maintain that we often, when younger, takes those substances ( subconciously or conciously ) for that very reason, so we will end up in bed with someone at the end of the night when our morals might have persuaded us not to if sober.
Our basic morals, or lack of them, is inate, and we all build on those to create our own moral boundaries. Reading posts on this thread we often like a justification for our moral boundaries so they don't sound inhuman or arbitrary. Religion can give you that justification, we can se on this forum that it is used to justify a morality that allows anti-homosexual discrimination whilst the same religion can also be used to bolster a morality entirely at odds with that. Humanism, built on the premis of respect for all human life, can't fall back on a written text, only on a set of philosophical statements.
It is actually quite hard to be a humanist, especially as I have zero respect for bigots and would quite happily discriminate agaisnt the discriminators , that means I am not a good humanist, and my morals are as suspect as anyone else's and entirely my own like everyone else's.
I think there are two basics sorts of people ( and this isn't an original thought ): those who can envisage getting away with an immoral or illegal action, and those that can't envisage getting caught. I would imagine that the second group out number the first group in the prison population by some margin. But I can't see why either group would alter in ratio depending on belief. It is more likely that as atheists are more highly educated they are therefore, statistically, richer as a group and therefore less likely to turn to crime for income.
Criminals come in 2 groups as well
, those that are criminals due to circumstance, and those that are sociopaths and psychopaths .We all, also, determine our own moral boundaries no matter how much we'd like to claim otherwise. The sheer numbers of divorced Christians shows this to be undeniable.
Personally I feel I am a very moral person but my own morality also allowed me to take drugs in the past even though it is illegal. It allows me to drive a rather fast V8 engined car above the speed limit in conditions I feel are safe ( i.e. never in built up areas ), and again this is illegal but within my moral perimeter.
I also feel our morality can be overdriven by more primal urges for things like sex especially when under the influence of drink or drugs, but I would maintain that we often, when younger, takes those substances ( subconciously or conciously ) for that very reason, so we will end up in bed with someone at the end of the night when our morals might have persuaded us not to if sober.
Our basic morals, or lack of them, is inate, and we all build on those to create our own moral boundaries. Reading posts on this thread we often like a justification for our moral boundaries so they don't sound inhuman or arbitrary. Religion can give you that justification, we can se on this forum that it is used to justify a morality that allows anti-homosexual discrimination whilst the same religion can also be used to bolster a morality entirely at odds with that. Humanism, built on the premis of respect for all human life, can't fall back on a written text, only on a set of philosophical statements.
It is actually quite hard to be a humanist, especially as I have zero respect for bigots and would quite happily discriminate agaisnt the discriminators
, that means I am not a good humanist, and my morals are as suspect as anyone else's and entirely my own like everyone else's.
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