If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[Jan001]

Even your own church upholds the TEN Commandments in that list.

And the NEW Covenant of Jeremiah 31:31-33 writes the moral law of God on the heart and mind - the LAW known to Jeremiah.

Catholic Christians do not keep the Sabbath of the Israelites/Jews. Look at the list that I linked to again. Our commandments are in the far right column.


Christians do not keep the Sabbath; they keep the Lord's Day on the first day of the week just as the apostles did, and taught them to do. Historical records prove this fact. Every Christian kept the first day of the week as their worship day. None of them needed a Scripture verse to remind them of this practice because they all knew to meet together weekly on the first day of the week. The Scriptures were not written until much later in time. 2 Thessalonians 2:15, John 21:25


Christians do not keep the Sabbath of the Israelites/Jews. Christians are not Israelites/Jews. No person should consider himself a Jew or any other nationality in God's kingdom today. We are simply all one body (comprised of every nationality) under the one headship of Christ.

Christ ended the law of Moses so that all peoples of all nations who believed in Him could be His disciples/justified/saved. Jesus did not command the apostles to make all nations into Israelites/Jews.

Matthew 28:18-19
And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, rsv

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law (of Moses), (so) that every one who has faith may be justified. rsv

Romans 6:14
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law (of Moses) but under grace (of Christ). rsv
​

Christ ended the law of Moses. It was for the Israelites/Jews only. Now, the Jews who become Jesus' disciples are under His new covenant and they should not distinguish themselves as Jews. Being a Jew under Jesus' new covenant is of no advantage to him.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. rsv

Romans 10:12
For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all and bestows his riches upon all who call upon him. rsv

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. rsv

Colossians 3:11
Here there cannot be Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scyth′ian, slave, free man, but Christ is all, and in all. rsv​

Paul said that there were only three groups of people. They were the Jews (the Israelites who had not accepted Jesus Christ as their Messiah), the Greeks (the pagans who had not accepted Jesus Christ as their Messiah) and the body of Christ (all the people regardless of nationality who had accepted Jesus Christ as their Messiah).

1 Corinthians 10:32
Give no offense to Jews or to Greeks or to the church of God, rsv​

Why do you insist that Christians become Jews and keep their Sabbath? That is going backwards in relationship with God and it causes Christians to fall away from the grace of salvation/Christ.

Galatians 5:3-5
I testify again to every man who receives circumcision that he is bound to keep the whole law. 4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we wait for the hope of righteousness. rsv

Galatians 5:2
Now I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. rsv​

Because Christians are not under the law of Moses, we do not keep the law of Moses. The law of Moses was the first/old covenant and it was for the Israelites only; the law/grace of Christ is the new covenant and it is for all peoples for all times.

John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. rsv

Galatians 2:21
I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification were through the law, then Christ died to no purpose. rsv

Galatians 3:13
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed be every one who hangs on a tree”— rsv

Philippians 3:9
and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own, based on law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith; rsv

Romans 7:4
Likewise, my brethren, you have died to the law (of Moses) through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead in order that we may bear fruit for God. rsv

John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. rsv

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set me free from the law of sin and death (law of Moses). rsv



The law of Christ is fulfilled by the following:


Matthew 22:36-39
Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. rsv​

These two moral laws are the essence/spirit of the law of Moses and it is only these two moral laws from the law of Moses which God has written on the Christians' hearts. The Sabbath laws are not written on the Christians' hearts. The law of Moses' Sabbath laws applied to the Israelites only.

Romans 13:10
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. rsv


Galatians 6:2
Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. rsv


James 2:8
If you really fulfil the royal law, according to the scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well. rsv​

Why do you insist that Christians become Jews and keep their Sabbath? That is going backwards in relationship with God and it causes Christians to fall away from the grace of salvation/Christ.

 

[Bob S]

Why do you insist that Christians become Jews and keep their Sabbath? That is going backwards in relationship with God and it causes Christians to fall away from the grace of salvation/Christ.

They are programed to believe the Sabbath is binding on Christians. No mater all the scripture that proves that we are not under the OC they still are not able to assimilate. They have become sheep of the hierarchy, which in most cases is bloated, and the hierarchy prods them to fetch new recruits, thus we deal with their false doctrines and try to decode them.

 

[klutedavid]

They are programed to believe the Sabbath is binding on Christians. No mater all the scripture that proves that we are not under the OC they still are not able to assimilate. They have become sheep of the hierarchy, which in most cases is bloated, and the hierarchy prods them to fetch new recruits, thus we deal with their false doctrines and try to decode them.

Hello BobS.

You used the word 'binding' in your post, what do you mean by binding?

The New Testament often uses the word 'under' to indicate whether someone
is under the law. To use this word (binding), which is foreign to the scripture,
tends to amplify the confusion. I have noticed that different interpretations
employ their own unique terminology, which makes the discussions very
confusing.

Further complication arises when one separates these ten commandments from
the rest of the law. It is as if there are only ten commandments, when in fact there
are a multitude of commandments in the law.

 

[Bob S]

Hello BobS.

You used the word 'binding' in your post, what do you mean by binding?

Binding used as a verb. It is a legal obligation to observe Sabbath.

The New Testament often uses the word 'under' to indicate whether someone
is under the law. To use this word (binding), which is foreign to the scripture,
tends to amplify the confusion.

I suppose it would if you are not familiar with the term. Are you indicating that because a word is not in scripture we should not use it? That seems like an odd thing to do.

I have noticed that different interpretations
employ their own unique terminology, which makes the discussions very
confusing.

Ditto, It is an attempt to justify their belief system.

Further complication arises when one separates these ten commandments from
the rest of the law. It is as if there are only ten commandments, when in fact there
are a multitude of commandments in the law.

Yes, the book of the law contained the 10 commandments. In fact, the written portion, dictated to Moses, further explains the 10.

 

[BobRyan]

Binding used as a verb. It is a legal obligation to observe Sabbath.
.

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
Through the LAW comes the knowledge of Sin - Romans 3... it defines what sin is.

"Legal obligation" as in "Do not take God's name in vain" - and if you do -- well that is "sin".

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

Those at war against God's Law are at war with the idea that God's law defines what sin is -

Romans 2
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

And yet without this fundamental principle - there is no point to the Gospel

 

[bugkiller]

Hello BobS.

You used the word 'binding' in your post, what do you mean by binding?

The New Testament often uses the word 'under' to indicate whether someone
is under the law. To use this word (binding), which is foreign to the scripture,
tends to amplify the confusion. I have noticed that different interpretations
employ their own unique terminology, which makes the discussions very
confusing.

Further complication arises when one separates these ten commandments from
the rest of the law. It is as if there are only ten commandments, when in fact there
are a multitude of commandments in the law.

You don't seem to understand the word "under."

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

This is a false statement based on a partial quote of a sentence.

bugkiller

 

[Travis93]

This is a false statement based on a partial quote of a sentence.

bugkiller

Here's the full quote then.
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

[bugkiller]

Here's the full quote then.
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Doesn't change what is aid one iota. Only the last half of the sentence was used to establish your false doctrine.

bugkiller

 

[klutedavid]

You don't seem to understand the word "under."

bugkiller

Hello Bugkiller.

Just trying to clarify what people mean Bugkiller.

Here are some examples of the word 'under' in the scripture.

Romans 6
14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

Romans 6
15 Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace?

1 Corinthians 9
21 Though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ.

It is very clear what Paul is saying in these verses, the word 'under' has
a specific meaning. The Jews were under the law, the Gentiles were never
under the law.

 

[klutedavid]

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4
Through the LAW comes the knowledge of Sin - Romans 3... it defines what sin is.

"Legal obligation" as in "Do not take God's name in vain" - and if you do -- well that is "sin".

James 2
8 If, however, you are fulfilling the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. 9 But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.

Those at war against God's Law are at war with the idea that God's law defines what sin is -

Romans 2
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

And yet without this fundamental principle - there is no point to the Gospel

Hello Bob.

How do you understand the following verse, the one you quoted?

"Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

In this verse there is the phrase 'the law', do you understand this phrase
to mean the whole law, or do you read this as the ten commandments?

 

[Travis93]

"The law" means the law of Moses altogether, not just the ten commandments. Here you can see the terms law of the LORD and law of Moses used interchangeably.
Luke 2:22-24 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

You can also see it here, with James using "law" and "Moses" interchangeably:
Acts 21:20-21 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

The law of Moses is also "the word of God" and the "commandment of God" as shown here:
Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Mark 7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
Mark 7:11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
Mark 7:12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

[klutedavid]

Hello Bob.

Thanks for the explanation.

Binding used as a verb. It is a legal obligation to observe Sabbath.

I thought that was the intended meaning of 'binding', breaking many laws in the law of Moses
resulted in the death penalty. The entire law was mandatory for Israel.

Are you indicating that because a word is not in scripture we should not use it?
That seems like an odd thing to do.

Not so Bob, I use the word 'trinity' but that is not in the scripture. There are words that
I have seen used such as 'moral', which are almost beyond any agreed definition. Even
though this word is only mentioned once in the scripture.

Ditto, It is an attempt to justify their belief system.

Yes, also the language that they are taught.

Yes, the book of the law contained the 10 commandments. In fact, the written
portion, dictated to Moses, further explains the 10.

Not sure what you are saying here?

 

[klutedavid]

"The law" means the law of Moses altogether, not just the ten commandments. Here you can see the terms law of the LORD and law of Moses used interchangeably.
Luke 2:22-24 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

You can also see it here, with James using "law" and "Moses" interchangeably:
Acts 21:20-21 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

The law of Moses is also "the word of God" and the "commandment of God" as shown here:
Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Mark 7:10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
Mark 7:11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
Mark 7:12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Hello Travis.

I agree with your definition of the phrase 'the law'.

Sorcery for example is mentioned by Paul as a sin. Sorcery is not
listed in the ten commandments, hence, Paul is referring to the
law of Moses in its wider sense.

 

[Travis93]

Hello Travis.

I agree with your definition of the phrase 'the law'.

Sorcery for example is mentioned by Paul as a sin. Sorcery is not
listed in the ten commandments, hence, Paul is referring to the
law of Moses in its wider sense.

Indeed, here's an example:
1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators (technically the Torah allows premarital sex once, but must get married immediately according to Exodus 22:16/Deuteronomy 22:29 and being a virgin when you get married is expected according to Deuteronomy 22:13-15), nor idolaters (Leviticus 26:1), nor adulterers (Leviticus 18:20), nor effeminate (Deuteronomy 22:5), nor abusers of themselves with mankind (Leviticus 18:22),
1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves (Leviticus 19:11), nor covetous (Exodus 20:17), nor drunkards (Deuteronomy 21:20), nor revilers (Exodus 22:28), nor extortioners (Leviticus 25:36-37), shall inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Bob S]

If transgression of the law = Torah then when satan transgressed the law in Heaven the law at that time was Torah. I don't know what you believe but it is very hard for me to wrap my mind around adultery in Heaven or Sabbath observance because Israel was led out of captivity in Egypt. Deut 5 I could go on, but it probably would be useless. People are programed to believe other than the real truth.

 

[BukiRob]

This is a false statement based on a partial quote of a sentence.

bugkiller

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

No its actually not... but then not a surprise that you would take this position.

 

[BukiRob]

If transgression of the law = Torah then when satan transgressed the law in Heaven the law at that time was Torah. I don't know what you believe but it is very hard for me to wrap my mind around adultery in Heaven or Sabbath observance because Israel was led out of captivity in Egypt. Deut 5 I could go on, but it probably would be useless. People are programed to believe other than the real truth.

Sabbath was a part of Creation itself. Secondly, if you read the OT you will discover that the Torah is called LIFE. It is called THE WAY and it is called TRUTH.

The WORD (TORAH) became Flesh and dwelt among us.... is what we are told... Yeshua verifies this when he declares: I am the WAY, the TRUTH, and the Life....

If one studies scripture you quickly see that the PHYSICAL often represents a type or shadow of the spiritual.... Adultery can and DID occur in heaven it was spiritual Adultery and were told in Rev 12 that as a result of this action, a third part of heaven was cast out of heaven and to the earth....

 

[BukiRob]

Hello Rob.

You said the following.

Hello Rob.

Adonia should be Adonai.

The Torah is the Pentateuch, the first five books of the Old Testament.

You stated.

We do not know for certain whether the sabbath was given before Exodus.
This is mere speculation rather than historical fact. No ancient civilizations ever mention
a sabbath, I seriously doubt your premise.

You seem to be following some tradition, a tradition introduced by the Jews concerning uttering
the sacred name of God, i.e., G-d?

If so, the sacred name of God in the Old Testament, is the very name that God gave to Moses.
That sacred name is the tetragrammaton, i.e., YHWH, not the appalling English translation found
in many Bibles, i.e., 'God' or 'Lord'. The translation of YHWH into 'God' or 'Lord' must be avoided.

These two terms are general terms for a divinity. The Hebrew form of YHWH is the sacred name
of God. Chalk and cheese.

Whether the Torah, or some form of it existed before it was written, is pure speculation.
This is a paradox that your proposing Rob. The Torah cannot exist before the Torah has been
written.

We do know that.
God rested on the seventh day of creation. The word "rested" here comes from the Hebrew word shabath (Strong's 7673), which can mean "to keep or to observe the Sabbath." This word is the root for the word shabbath (Strong's 7676), which is translated as "Sabbath" throughout the Old Testament.

God rested upon, or kept, the Sabbath on this first seventh day, not because He physically tired after all His creation work, but to set an example for Adam, Eve, and all humanity after them to do the same.

 

[klutedavid]

We do know that.
God rested on the seventh day of creation. The word "rested" here comes from the Hebrew word shabath (Strong's 7673), which can mean "to keep or to observe the Sabbath." This word is the root for the word shabbath (Strong's 7676), which is translated as "Sabbath" throughout the Old Testament.

God rested upon, or kept, the Sabbath on this first seventh day, not because He physically tired after all His creation work, but to set an example for Adam, Eve, and all humanity after them to do the same.

Hello Rob.

We do not know whether Adam and Eve practiced the Sabbath rest day.

We do know that the first mention of a Sabbath rest day, that Israel observed
occurs in the book of Exodus. In fact Rob, Israel was commanded to observe
the Sabbath at Mt Sinai. There is an earlier mention of Israel enforcing the
Sabbath day before the law was given at Mt Sinai, though this occurrence
is very close to the Mt Sinai event.

The law is essentially the written commandments of God to Israel. There is
no evidence that any other nation on earth, other than Israel, practiced the
Sabbath rest day. If you know of the mention of a Sabbath day in the laws
of any other nation, feel free to correct me.

You made this point.

The word "rested" here comes from the Hebrew word shabath (Strong's 7673),
which can mean "to keep or to observe the Sabbath."

To cease labor (Shabbat), does not mean 'to observe the sabbath', if I cease labor on
a given day of the week, say Sunday, that does not mean that I am observing
Sunday each week, as a day of rest. There is a subtle difference between Shabbat
and Sabbath, shabbat does not mean Sabbath.