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If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by BobRyan, Oct 19, 2015.

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  1. rob_aston

    rob_aston Active Member

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    good to meet u bob
    (the blue word here below is a link to my blog, where by the rules of this forum, i place prophetic words)
     
  2. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Well I think we would all agree that this thread is not about the two or three names we find for Peter

    =======================================================

    Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
    John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"

    So may argue that all that was before the cross - so pay no attention to that part of "scripture" -- it is not for Christians. Yet "Chrisitan" means - follower of Christ and Christ is speaking both in John 14 - and in Exodus 20.



    By contrast to that speculative conclusion we have --

    "what matters is KEEPiNG the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
    "the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

    So then what about Christ coming up with a different set of commandments - that are not those of God? Not those of God the Father and thereby negating the Commandments of God to replace them with other commandments - that come from Christ? Is that what we find in the New Testament?

    Not according to Jesus' words in John's Gospel.

    John 5:19 "19 Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

    John 8:28 "28 So Jesus said, “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me.

    John 12:49 49 For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.

    John 14: "10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works."

    Which is why in John 14:15 we see this
    15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

    Instead of "keep My Commandments - not My Father's commandments - just mine"

    And it is why John 15:10 does not say that either

    John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

    And of course God the Father gave Jesus the ministry of "Savior" to the world such that Jesus prayed "Father if it be possible let this cup pass from me - nevertheless not my will - but Thy will be done"

    John said - Jesus kept His Father's Commandments.

    John said - we should do as Jesus did.
    1 John 2: 6 the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

    ==================================================
    Jesus is the One that gave us the TEN Commandments - they were spoken by HiM as we see in the NEW Covenant

    Heb 8 (And Jer 31:31-33)
    6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.

    7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second. 8 For finding fault with them, He says,
    “Behold, days are coming, says the Lord,
    When I will effect a new covenant
    With the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
    9 Not like the covenant which I made with their fathers
    On the day when I took them by the hand
    To lead them out of the land of Egypt;
    For they did not continue in My covenant,
    And I did not care for them, says the Lord.
    10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
    After those days, says the Lord:
    I will put My laws into their minds,
    And I will write them on their hearts.
    And I will be their God,
    And they shall be My people.

    Exegesis demands that the moral law of God written on the mind and heart in Jer 31:31-33 is the one that Jeremiah and his readers knew.


    Do you view Jesus as opposed to the Father or the two and the Holy Spirit are "ONE God" in your/our monotheistic religion?

    ==========================

    If you oppose the Commandments of God in NT times - then answer this question -

    In Eph 6:2 - "honor your father and mother for this is the first commandment with a promise" -- what Law - what unit of Law is it to be found that 'honor your father and mother" is the FIRST commandment with a promise??

    First commandment where??

    Two simple questions - easy answer to each one - Yesterday at 11:09 AM #383
    Resolves the entire debate on this thread.


    1. You don't respond to any Bible text quoted.
    2.
    you then argue as if Abraham was the only human on the planet in the OT
    <none of which makes your case against the Law of God>
    3. Paul had Timothy circumcised in Acts 16.

    Again you merely 'quote you' --

    Pick up a statement that I have made and quote me when you want to object to something I say. Why should i defend your own quote "of you"??



    Those who place themselves at war against the Sabbath commandment - are opposing even their own pro-sunday Scholars - so not just the Bible, not just the Christians promoting the Bible Sabbath.

    Hint - we never find Paul telling gentiles not to take God's name in vain or to Love God with all your heart.

    And God's Genesis 2:1-3 Ex 20:11 Mark 2:27 Sabbath is called the "Sabbath of the LORD YHWH Thy God" and not "Sinai Sabbath".

    You quote "you" when the point can't be made by quoting the Bible.
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Until you read Colossians 2 where we find that the shadows are the annual feast Sabbaths.

    Paying close attention to "the details" in Colossians 2 instead of skimming over them - is a great idea.


    =========================

    for those not inclined to ignore every detail in Colossians 2 - we have

    In this following post it is pointed out that in Col 2 - we do not find Paul condemning the Bible, no condemnation of eating, no condemnation of drinking - and no condemnation of God's Sabbath as we find it in the Ten Commandments.

    Col 2 is about making up a rule and judging others of being guilty of sin because they differ with you, even if that invented rule is related to a Bible command.

    But Col 2 is not an attempt by Paul to delete the scriptures. Rather Paul condemns the idea of making stuff up that is not in scripture at all - where the only source/authority is "man".

    Col 2:18 Let no one keep defrauding you of your prize by delighting in self-abasement and the worship of the angels, taking his stand on visions he has seen, inflatedwithout cause by his fleshly mind,
    19 and not holding fast to the head, from whom the entire body, being supplied and held together by the joints and ligaments, grows with a growth which is from God.


    Col 2
    20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
    21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
    22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh. (KJV)

    Col 2
    20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
    21 “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” 22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
    23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in self-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.(NASB)


    In Mark 7:6-13 the Jews were simply "making stuff up" to get around one of the TEN Commandments - and of course Christ condemned them for that.
     
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Sadly for the arguments at war with God's Bible Sabbath - it is to be kept for all eternity in the New earth Is 66:23 "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" -

    and 1 John 5:2-4 refutes/debunks the man-made-tradition that declares the Word and Law of God to be "burdensome" -- "Bondage". James 2 calls it the "Law of Liberty".
     
  5. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    You respond to Paul in Galatians 4:24-30 by quoting from the Old Testament as if it erases what Paul said. There is no doubt a time coming when all will come to worship Him within a period of less than one week.

    Maybe you think Paul was wrong, if that is your only response to Paul's letter to the Galatian believers.

    Gal 4:24  which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 

    Gal 4:25  for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children—

     

    Gal 4:30  Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? "CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREEWOMAN." 


    Gal 4:31  So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.
     

    Some of us cannot let go of the bondwoman.
    What did Paul say about the Judaisers?

    Gal 5:12 I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!


    .
     
  6. listed

    listed are you?

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    What is your evidence Jesus spoke in Ex 20?
    The speculation is yours. Because you push the law over Jesus there is plenty justifiable doubt about your faith in Jesus. Post the words of the music used in your church last Sabbath.
    What? Jesus is God. Jesus clearly identified commandments as His and not His Father's. Do you have some text of John 15:10 showing otherwise?
    Yes Jesus saw God the Father issuing commands.
    Personally I don't think you understand the above verses. Go ahead and say that is me quoting me if you like. I see no correlation between those texts and the subject being discussed by you.
    Either way both verses say "my" and make no reference to the law.
    Nothing to do with your discussion.
    Yes and one should notice you're being very specific with which commandments.
    When you start walking on water let us know. Oh never mind it would probably be in the news. When you start healing people by telling them to hold out there hand or get and walk please let us know. Oh and you're most likely married and Jesus was single and celibate. In-other-words you can't walk like Jesus walked in any way. Your intention is to infer the Christian is to keep the law. John never says anywhere to keep the law.
    This is an unprovable unexamined assumption on your part having no evidence in the Bible.
    What? you just posted a better covenant. It can't be the same covenant issued at Sinai you claim is written on the heart. Then you say new covenant with highlighted emphasis. Yes you didn't pay any attention to the words preceding your highlight "Not like." Why? then you ignorethe w ord "For" in verse 33.
    You preform eisegesis, not exegesis.
    You're not asking me, but the answer is no.
    Thanks for giving us an out. Your real issue isn't opposition to the commandments as a whole, just one notably the 4th. You don't keep it. What is the big deal about the commandments? The commandment is your accuser.
    Nowhere, that's where.
    You historically throw out any such response.
    Why did Paul do this?
    Did so and you'll still most likely say "you quoted you."
    What did I post above was your real intention?
    Big deal
    Only as it was spoken to Israel. The context doesn't include anyone else
     
  7. listed

    listed are you?

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    Nothing but a detraction form the quoted post.
     
  8. JohnRabbit

    JohnRabbit just trying to understand Supporter

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    Last edited: Oct 15, 2016
  9. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    His response doesn't tell us that in the same breath Isaiah wrote the we will weekly walk out among dead carcasses on the delightful Sabbath. That will not be an inviting thing to do when we are in Heaven and supposed to be free of the past. Oh yes, in Isaiah's verses about the new earth he also tell us man will live to be over 100 and new born babies will not die as infants.

    There is something wrong here. If we believe what Isaiah wrote is really the Earth made new it is a real disappointment from the other teaching we love to read about concerning the glorious new Earth.

    I would be very careful using Is 66 as my main reliance on Sabbath observance. When Bob Ryan is confronted with the facts he shrinks and glosses over the real facts, too bad.
     
  10. 1John2:4

    1John2:4 Well-Known Member

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    119 Blessed are the undefiled in the way,
    Who walk in the law of the Lord!
    2 Blessed are those who keep His testimonies,
    Who seek Him with the whole heart!
    3 They also do no iniquity;
    They walk in His ways.
    4 You have commanded us
    To keep Your precepts diligently.
    5 Oh, that my ways were directed
    To keep Your statutes!
    6 Then I would not be ashamed,
    When I look into all Your commandments.
    7 I will praise You with uprightness of heart,
    When I learn Your righteous judgments.
    8 I will keep Your statutes;
    Oh, do not forsake me utterly!
     
  11. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Isaiah 65:20 has come into question several times on this forum so I decided to look at the Hebrew to English translation from scripture4all.org.

    Here is the word for word translation of Hebrew to English...

    not he-shall-be from-there further unweaned-of days and-old-man who not he-shall-fill days-of-him that the-lad son-of hundred year he-shall-die and-the-one missing son-of hundred year he-shall-be-lightly-esteemed.

    If we put the emphasis on the first few words it turns the rest of the verse into a negative, meaning that these things will not be present in the New Heavens and the New Earth. This translation of the verse is the only one that matches the context of the passage.

    not he-shall-be from-there further, unweaned-of days and-old-man who not he-shall-fill days-of-him that the-lad son-of hundred year he-shall-die and-the-one missing son-of hundred year he-shall-be-lightly-esteemed.

    There shall no longer be...

    .
     
  12. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Black is from the Orthodox Jewish Bible Is 65: Green is from the NLV
    20 There shall be no more in there an infant of days, nor a zaken (old man) that hath not filled his days; for he that shall die a hundred years old will be regarded a na’ar; but the choteh (sinner), a hundred years old, will be accursed.
    20 “No longer will babies die when only a few days old.
    No longer will adults die before they have lived a full life. No longer will people be considered old at one hundred! Only the cursed will die that young!

    21 And they shall build batim (houses), and inhabit them; and they shall plant kramim (vineyards), and eat the fruit of them.
    21 In those days people will live in the houses they build
    and eat the fruit of their own vineyards.

    22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat; for as the days of HaEtz are the days of Ami, and Mine Bechir shall long enjoy the ma’aseh of their hands.
    22 Unlike the past, invaders will not take their houses
    and confiscate their vineyards.
    For my people will live as long as trees,
    and my chosen ones will have time to enjoy their hard-won gains.

    23 They shall not labor in vain, nor bring forth for misfortune; for they are the Zera Beruchei Hashem (Seed of the Blessed ones of Hashem), and their offspring with them.
    23 They will not work in vain,
    and their children will not be doomed to misfortune.
    For they are people blessed by the Lord,
    and their children, too, will be blessed.

    24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet medaberim (speaking), I will hear.

    How do explain children? Will seeds be planted by osmosis? How about comparing people to trees, concerning their longevity?
     
  13. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    In my humble opinion if we throw out death in verse 20 the rest of the passage is a description of life in the garden, with the curse removed.

    Hopefully, our children who have become believers will be there to share eternity with us. It does not necessarily mean that children continue to be produced.

    Adam lived in a garden where plants grew and he took care of it, before the fall.

    I think this is what the prophet is attempting to convey to us.

    Verse 20 is the big problem for me, but I am not willing to start a fight with anyone over the rest of the text either.

    .
     
  14. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    QUOTE="1John2:4 "]
    א Aleph
    119 Blessed are the undefiled in the way,
    Who walk in the law of the Lord!
    2 Blessed are those who keep His testimonies,
    Who seek Him with the whole heart!
    3 They also do no iniquity;
    They walk in His ways.
    QUOTE
     
  15. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ditto! I will not be too long before I will be able to ask Isaiah himself what was meant by some of his thoughts. I am looking forward to meet my Savior person to person and meet all those who have had a part in my salvation. What a day in Glory that will be.
     
  16. FredVB

    FredVB Regular Member

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    There is the return of Christ to this world to rule over it, this is not the eternal arrangement, but that which is in the millennium mentioned in the book of Revelation. It fulfills many prophecies especially of Jerusalem, and Christ's reign, but it brings to this world things meant for it while sin and the enemy are subdued. Yet Heaven still waits, and though there will be very long life and creatures will no longer be put to death, some at least ultimately die in that long age. The eternity we hope for is with the arrangement that comes after that.
     
  17. 1John2:4

    1John2:4 Well-Known Member

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    25 My soul clings to the dust;
    Revive me according to Your word.
    26 I have declared my ways, and You answered me;
    Teach me Your statutes.
    27 Make me understand the way of Your precepts;
    So shall I meditate on Your wonderful works.
    28 My soul melts from heaviness;
    Strengthen me according to Your word.
    29 Remove from me the way of lying,
    And grant me Your law graciously.
    30 I have chosen the way of truth;
    Your judgments I have laid before me.
    31 I cling to Your testimonies;
    O Lord, do not put me to shame!
    32 I will run the course of Your commandments,
    For You shall enlarge my heart.
     
  18. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    amein.
     
  19. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Some people will never find out the thoughts of YHWH.
    Some people will find out TODAY on earth .
    Some people don't want to know. (most of the world doesn't want to know; they don't care and they reject HIM).
    This is recorded to read in Ephesians, Romans, and Revelation.
     
  20. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    I will see you when we both get there, Brother.

    Amen.

    .
     
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