If you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments

[bugkiller]

In response to a post stating that the people of God are to obey the Word of God rather than declare rebellion against it -- I posted this.

And of course "the SAINTS KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12



holding your bible at an extreme distance one may "imagine" these texts are difficult to read - but in real life EVEN the Catholic church admits the TEN Commandments are still binding upon the saints!

As does the Westminster Confession of Faith, and the Baptist Confession of Faith and even the Orthodox churches.

The imaginary claim that this is just too difficult to read - is put to rest a long time ago.

And we all know it.

And we are tired of your quote mining our Bible with partial sentences to make it say something it does not.

bugkiller

 

[bugkiller]

Hacksaw Ridge - comes to mind

What is "Hacksaw Ridge?"

bugkiller

 

[BobRyan]

What is "Hacksaw Ridge?"

bugkiller

google it -- the movie has some of the details

 

[bugkiller]

google it -- the movie has some of the details

not that interested in doing your research.

bugkiller

 

[Palesa]

Galatians 4:21
Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law?

Christ freed us from the Law--meaning the entire Law of Moses, there were no ten commandments until Mount Sinai. Instead, we have a new law: The law of freedom in Christ.

As Christians we do not live according to laws or by constantly checking our flesh to see if we are righteous. Paul made it VERY clear that righteousness comes through faith in Jesus Christ. We don't need a list of commandments, because trying to please God through our flesh doesn't work: The entire OT taught us that. We live by faith in God, and his spirit leads us on the path of life. So don't come on here trying to convince Christians to be under a yoke again, we are free in Christ, and if you don't like that teaching you need to reexamine where your righteousness comes from.

Yes, we keep the commands of Christ, but only through faith in him. The moment you start making a list of rules is the moment you stop putting faith in him.

You do realize that the commandments were giving by God right? Be careful because you are beginning to sound anti-holiness. Remember this fact: It is because of the law that we know what sin is an I have never heard Christ encouraging anyone to sin after they had received salvation. He encouraged them to sin no more, as in not to break God's commandments. Just be careful with this idea of us being made right with Christ because if we continue to sin after we have being saved there is no more redemption. So after salvation we ought to keep away from sin, the kingdom of God is spiritual but it is nonetheless a kingdom, with it's own laws.

 

[Palesa]

I was done with this post, but wow!


Ya'll can kick me out to, because I believe obedience unto salvation also faith & works!

I am truly moved, you guys have chosen the narrow road. Do not be puzzled that mainstream Christianity will oppose the truth. 2 Timothy 4:3 2Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and encourage with every form of patient instruction. 3For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. 4So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.… I think it is easier for people to believe the once saved always saved doctrine than to believe that you can lose your salvation through lawlessness. I do not see anyone here saying that salvation comes through keeping the law, All I am reading from you guys is that after being saved we need to bear fruits or risk being cut off. I do not know why anyone would contest that the laws of Yahweh are written in our hearts so that we keep them.
May Yahweh keep you faithful until his the end.

 

[Jan001]

In response to a post stating that the people of God are to obey the Word of God rather than declare rebellion against it -- I posted this.

And of course "the SAINTS KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12



holding your bible at an extreme distance one may "imagine" these texts are difficult to read - but in real life EVEN the Catholic church admits the TEN Commandments are still binding upon the saints!

As does the Westminster Confession of Faith, and the Baptist Confession of Faith and even the Orthodox churches.

The imaginary claim that this is just too difficult to read - is put to rest a long time ago.

And we all know it.

The Catholic Ten Commandments command us to keep holy the Lord's day which is not the sabbath day of the Jews. You delude yourself if you believe that the Catholic Church teaches its members to keep the sabbath holy.

 

[BobRyan]

The Catholic Ten Commandments command us to keep holy the Lord's day[ which is not the Sabbath

They claim it is the Sabbath Commandment obligation being satisfied - and as you point out they insists that the TEN Commandments (and not merely NINE) are obligatory for the saints.

What you have overlooked is that they insist that the LORD's DAY as given in the actual Bible - is the seventh-day Sabbath.

I point this out "in detail" in this post.

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!!

Here Pope John Paul argues two points in his document "Dies Domini"

1. That the TEN Commandments (all TEN... not just NINE ) still remain. What does that mean about the SABBATH Commandment? gone - or remains? or bent to point to??

2. In the second quote John Paul II Refers to the OT Sabbath as the LORD's Day -

Pope John Paul II

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.

Dies Domini

From the Sabbath to Sunday

18. Because the Third (the Sabbath) Commandment depends upon the remembrance of God's saving works and because Christians saw the definitive time inaugurated by Christ as a new beginning, they made the first day after the Sabbath a festive day, for that was the day on which the Lord rose from the dead. The Paschal Mystery of Christ is the full revelation of the mystery of the world's origin, the climax of the history of salvation and the anticipation of the eschatological fulfilment of the world. What God accomplished in Creation and wrought for his People in the Exodus has found its fullest expression in Christ's Death and Resurrection, though its definitive fulfilment will not come until the Parousia, when Christ returns in glory. In him, the "spiritual" meaning of the Sabbath is fully realized, as Saint Gregory the Great declares: "For us, the true Sabbath is the person of our Redeemer, our Lord Jesus Christ".(14) This is why the joy with which God, on humanity's first Sabbath, contemplates all that was created from nothing, is now expressed in the joy with which Christ, on Easter Sunday, appeared to his disciples, bringing the gift of peace and the gift of the Spirit (cf. Jn 20:19-23). It was in the Paschal Mystery that humanity, and with it the whole creation, "groaning in birth-pangs until now" (Rom 8:22), came to know its new "exodus" into the freedom of God's children who can cry out with Christ, "Abba, Father!" (Rom 8:15; Gal 4:6). In the light of this mystery, the meaning of the Old Testament precept concerning the Lord's Day is recovered, perfected and fully revealed in the glory which shines on the face of the Risen Christ (cf. 2 Cor 4:6). We move from the "Sabbath" to the "first day after the Sabbath", from the seventh day to the first day: the dies Domini becomes the dies Christi!

=============================================

The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

========================================



In these quotes we see "TEN Commandments" and "DECALOGUE" not "630"

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.


these Catholic Catechism statements seem to support what John Paul II and what "The Faith Explained" have said in their two points above --

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.

2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29

(Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.

Key question:

In legal terms - what does it mean to change one of the TEN commandments in the law - so that its obligation, its authority, its observance is now transferred to some other day - other than the one as given in that Command??[/QUOTE]

 

[bugkiller]

I am truly moved, you guys have chosen the narrow road. Do not be puzzled that mainstream Christianity will oppose the truth. 2 Timothy 4:3 2Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and encourage with every form of patient instruction. 3For the time will come when men will not tolerate sound doctrine, but with itching ears they will gather around themselves teachers to suit their own desires. 4So they will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.… I think it is easier for people to believe the once saved always saved doctrine than to believe that you can lose your salvation through lawlessness. I do not see anyone here saying that salvation comes through keeping the law, All I am reading from you guys is that after being saved we need to bear fruits or risk being cut off. I do not know why anyone would contest that the laws of Yahweh are written in our hearts so that we keep them.
May Yahweh keep you faithful until his the end.

You have not been around long enough to know.

bugkiller

 

[Jan001]

They claim it is the Sabbath Commandment obligation being satisfied - and as you point out they insists that the TEN Commandments (and not merely NINE) are obligatory for the saints.

What you have overlooked is that they insist that the LORD's DAY as given in the actual Bible - is the seventh-day Sabbath.

I point this out "in detail" in this post.




Key question:

In legal terms - what does it mean to change one of the TEN commandments in the law - so that its obligation, its authority, its observance is now transferred to some other day - other than the one as given in that Command??

Sorry, Bob, that you do not understand/comprehend.

The sabbath of the Israelites under the Old Covenant was merely a shadow of the things to come for the Christians under the New Covenant.

The sabbath was tied to the Levite priesthood of the Old Covenant as a sign between God and the Israelites.

The Lord's day is tied to the Melchizedek priesthood of the New Covenant. Christians are under the Melchizedek priesthood of the New Covenant, not the Levite priesthood of the Old Covenant. Christians are not bound by the sabbath law of the Old Covenant Israelites.


What do you think the following two Scripture verses mean? What "law/laws" are these two verses referring to?

Hebrews 7:12
For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. rsv

Galatians 5:4
You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. rsv

​

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

JOHN 17 , Y'SHUA'S PRAYER,
in HARMONY
PERFECT HARMONY
with ALL of YHWH'S WORD, YHWH'S PLAN, YHWH'S SALVATION
says we already know for certain we are SAVED,
now, TODAY, here on earth, IN HIM ABIDING, LIVING , DWELLING,
in union with Y'SHUA with the FATHER,
SAVED ALREADY - we don't have to wait until we die to find out
and
as HIS WORD SAYS , no one abiding in HIM transgresses the TORAH - it is inconceivable to do so.
Walking in union with HIM as it is written in HIS WORD is LIFE NOW TODAY on earth.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

The Catholic Ten Commandments command us to keep holy the Lord's day which is not the sabbath day of the Jews. You delude yourself if you believe that the Catholic Church teaches its members to keep the sabbath holy.

Oddly,
strangely,
that's true - they are not taught to keep YHWH'S SABBATH HOLY !

 

[BobRyan]

The Catholic Ten Commandments command us to keep holy the Lord's day[ which is not the Sabbath

They claim it is the Sabbath Commandment obligation being satisfied - and as you point out they insists that the TEN Commandments (and not merely NINE) are obligatory for the saints.

What you have overlooked is that they insist that the LORD's DAY as given in the actual Bible - is the seventh-day Sabbath.

I point this out "in detail" in this post.

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!!

Here Pope John Paul argues two points in his document "Dies Domini"

1. That the TEN Commandments (all TEN... not just NINE ) still remain. What does that mean about the SABBATH Commandment? gone - or remains? or bent to point to??

2. In the second quote John Paul II Refers to the OT Sabbath as the LORD's Day -

Pope John Paul II

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.

Dies Domini

From the Sabbath to Sunday

18. Because the Third (the Sabbath) Commandment depends upon the remembrance of God's saving works and because Christians saw the definitive time inaugurated by Christ as a new beginning, they made the first day after the Sabbath a festive day, for that was the day on which the Lord rose from the dead. The Paschal Mystery of Christ is the full revelation of the mystery of the world's origin, the climax of the history of salvation and the anticipation of the eschatological fulfilment of the world. What God accomplished in Creation and wrought for his People in the Exodus has found its fullest expression in Christ's Death and Resurrection, though its definitive fulfilment will not come until the Parousia, when Christ returns in glory. In him, the "spiritual" meaning of the Sabbath is fully realized, as Saint Gregory the Great declares: "For us, the true Sabbath is the person of our Redeemer, our Lord Jesus Christ".(14) This is why the joy with which God, on humanity's first Sabbath, contemplates all that was created from nothing, is now expressed in the joy with which Christ, on Easter Sunday, appeared to his disciples, bringing the gift of peace and the gift of the Spirit (cf. Jn 20:19-23). It was in the Paschal Mystery that humanity, and with it the whole creation, "groaning in birth-pangs until now" (Rom 8:22), came to know its new "exodus" into the freedom of God's children who can cry out with Christ, "Abba, Father!" (Rom 8:15; Gal 4:6). In the light of this mystery, the meaning of the Old Testament precept concerning the Lord's Day is recovered, perfected and fully revealed in the glory which shines on the face of the Risen Christ (cf. 2 Cor 4:6). We move from the "Sabbath" to the "first day after the Sabbath", from the seventh day to the first day: the dies Domini becomes the dies Christi!

=============================================

The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

========================================



In these quotes we see "TEN Commandments" and "DECALOGUE" not "630"

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.


these Catholic Catechism statements seem to support what John Paul II and what "The Faith Explained" have said in their two points above --

2056 The word "Decalogue" means literally "ten words."11 God revealed these "ten words" to his people on the holy mountain. They were written "with the finger of God,"12 unlike the other commandments written by Moses.13 They are pre-eminently the words of God. They are handed on to us in the books of Exodus 14 and Deuteronomy.15 Beginning with the Old Testament, the sacred books refer to the "ten words,"16 but it is in the New Covenant in Jesus Christ that their full meaning will be revealed.

2072 Since they express man's fundamental duties towards God and towards his neighbor, the Ten Commandments reveal, in their primordial content, grave obligations.They are fundamentally immutable, and they oblige always and everywhere. No one can dispense from them. the Ten Commandments are engraved by God in the human heart.

2063.... the words of the Decalogue remain likewise for us Christians. Far from being abolished, they have received amplification and development from the fact of the coming of the Lord in the flesh.26

2068 The Council of Trent teaches that the Ten Commandments are obligatory for Christiansand that the justified man is still bound to keep them;28 The Second Vatican Council confirms: "The bishops, successors of the apostles, receive from the Lord . . . the mission of teaching all peoples, and of preaching the Gospel to every creature, so that all men may attain salvation through faith, Baptism and the observance of the Commandments."29

(Application in James 2)
2069 The Decalogue forms a coherent whole. Each "word" refers to each of the others and to all of them; they reciprocally condition one another. the two tables shed light on one another; they form an organic unity. To transgress one commandment is to infringe all the others.30 One cannot honor another person without blessing God his Creator. One cannot adore God without loving all men, his creatures. the Decalogue brings man's religious and social life into unity.

Key question:

In legal terms - what does it mean to change one of the TEN commandments in the law - so that its obligation, its authority, its observance is now transferred to some other day - other than the one as given in that Command??[/QUOTE]

The sabbath of the Israelites under the Old Covenant was merely a shadow

Do you even read Catholic material??

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!!

Here Pope John Paul argues two points in his document "Dies Domini"

1. That the TEN Commandments (all TEN... not just NINE ) still remain. What does that mean about the SABBATH Commandment? gone - or remains? or bent to point to??

2. In the second quote John Paul II Refers to the OT Sabbath as the LORD's Day -

The Lord's day is tied to the Melchizedek priesthood of the New Covenant.

I ask again - do you read Catholic material??

Do you even read Catholic material??

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!!

Here Pope John Paul argues two points in his document "Dies Domini"

1. That the TEN Commandments (all TEN... not just NINE ) still remain. What does that mean about the SABBATH Commandment? gone - or remains? or bent to point to??

2. In the second quote John Paul II Refers to the OT Sabbath as the LORD's Day -

What do you think the following two Scripture verses mean? What "law/laws" are these two verses referring to?

Hebrews 7:12
For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. rsv

Galatians 5:4
You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. rsv

​

Hebrews 7 deals with laws pertaining to earthly priesthood - Hebrews 7 says there is no such thing as an earthly priesthood after the cross. Hebrews 8:3-6 makes the same point.

Galatians 5 talks about the impossibility of sinners (OT or NT) ever being justified by the law.

I love the Bible - it is much better than simply making stuff up the way some people have done at times.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

========================================

 

[bugkiller]

JOHN 17 , Y'SHUA'S PRAYER,
in HARMONY
PERFECT HARMONY
with ALL of YHWH'S WORD, YHWH'S PLAN, YHWH'S SALVATION
says we already know for certain we are SAVED,
now, TODAY, here on earth, IN HIM ABIDING, LIVING , DWELLING,
in union with Y'SHUA with the FATHER,
SAVED ALREADY - we don't have to wait until we die to find out
and
as HIS WORD SAYS , no one abiding in HIM transgresses the TORAH - it is inconceivable to do so.
Walking in union with HIM as it is written in HIS WORD is LIFE NOW TODAY on earth.

Would you please explain JN 15:10 in light of what you posted?

bugkiller

 

[Jan001]

Oddly,
strangely,
that's true - they are not taught to keep YHWH'S SABBATH HOLY !

Yeshua's day is Sunday, the first day of the week. Catholics do keep His day holy. This is the day that Jesus commanded His followers to keep holy in honor of His resurrection from the dead on Sunday, the first day of the week.

Luke 10:16
“He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” rsv
​

Jesus commanded His apostles to make disciples for Him by baptizing them and to teach them to do as He commanded. Jesus did not command anyone to read a non-existent NT Bible to find out what He commanded His apostles to teach His followers to do.

 

[BABerean2]

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

You could operate on the say-so of Ellen G. White, instead...

...or you could read the words of Paul.

(Col 2:16)　 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

(Col 2:17)　 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


Shut Door Documents from the estate of Ellen G. White
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html

.

 

[Jan001]

Do you even read Catholic material??

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!!

Here Pope John Paul argues two points in his document "Dies Domini"

1. That the TEN Commandments (all TEN... not just NINE ) still remain. What does that mean about the SABBATH Commandment? gone - or remains? or bent to point to??

2. In the second quote John Paul II Refers to the OT Sabbath as the LORD's Day -

I ask again - do you read Catholic material??


Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!!

Here Pope John Paul argues two points in his document "Dies Domini"

1. That the TEN Commandments (all TEN... not just NINE ) still remain. What does that mean about the SABBATH Commandment? gone - or remains? or bent to point to??

2. In the second quote John Paul II Refers to the OT Sabbath as the LORD's Day

Yes, I do read Catholic material. In order to understand Catholic teaching, one must read the whole document and not simply cherry-pick a few things that seem to support a person's personal bias.

1. The Ten Commandments do not specify every important thing that is required of Christians and they do not specify every important thing that is forbidden for Christians.

For example, the sin of fornication is not specifically listed and the sin of abortion is not specifically listed and the sin of not caring for the poor is not listed, yet these are all heinous sins and they do prevent a person from inheriting eternal life if these sins are not repented of before the death of the person committing them.

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. rsv
​

Romans 13:9-10
The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and any other commandment, are summed up in this sentence, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. rsv

​

Many, many sins which can be committed against a person's neighbor are not listed in the Ten Commandments.

Ephesians 5:5-8
Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for it is because of these things that the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not associate with them, 8 for once you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of light rsv
​

2. Pope John Paul meant that the sabbath of the Israelites was important as a precursor of the Lord's day of the Christians which is commanded to be celebrated every Sunday of every week. Catholics do not keep the Saturday sabbath of the Israelites/Jews and they are definitely not commanded to keep the Saturday sabbath of the Israelites/Jews.

3. There is definitely an ordained priesthood in the New Covenant. That is why there are ordained Catholic and Orthodox priests. Jesus is their High Priest.

Jesus founded a Church to preach/teach and explain His gospel.

Matthew 16:15-19
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. rsv

Matthew 28:16-20
Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.” niv​

Jesus never commanded His apostles and disciples to write a NT Bible.

Luke 10:16
“He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” rsv​

Jesus commanded His followers to listen to and obey the leaders of His Church.

Please show me where in Scripture Jesus told every one to buy a NT Bible and decide for himself what it means.

Please show me where in Scripture Jesus said that all His commands are to be written in Scripture.

 

[Jan001]

The Catholic Commentary on the Baltimore Catechism post Vatican II - argues the SAME two points.

1965 -- first published 1959

(from "The Faith Explained" page 243

"we know that in the O.T it was the seventh day of the week - the Sabbath day- which was observed as the Lord's day. that was the law as God gave it...'remember to keep holy the Sabbath day.. the early Christian church determined as the Lord's day the first day of the week. That the church had the right to make such a law is evident...

The reason for changing the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday lies in the fact that to the Christian church the first day of the week had been made double holy...

nothing is said in the bible about the change of the Lord's day from Saturday to Sunday..that is why we find so illogical the attitude of many non-Catholic who say they will believe nothing unless they can find it in the bible and yet will continue to keep Sunday as the Lord's day on the say-so of the Catholic church

========================================

The apostles, the very first members of the Catholic Church, did command that all members of the Catholic Church keep the Lord's day holy. The Lord's day is Sunday, the first day of the week.

Why do you believe that everything must be in the Bible? Jesus never commanded that His apostles and disciples write a NT Bible. Jesus commanded that His apostles and disciples preach/teach His gospel in person.

I find it illogical to believe that the NT Bible contains all of Jesus' commands.

2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter. rsv

John 21:25
But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. rsv​

 

[Jan001]

You could operate on the say-so of Ellen G. White, instead...

...or you could read the words of Paul.

(Col 2:16)　 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

(Col 2:17)　 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


Shut Door Documents from the estate of Ellen G. White
http://www.whiteestate.org/issues/shutdoor.html

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BobRyan does not choose to understand the truth of Jesus' gospel in that the sabbath laws of the OC law of Moses have been made obsolete by Jesus' much better NC.