If you kill someone

[bhsmte]

sure, as should have Trayvon.

Look you will never see my side, and I will never be convinced that Z did the right thing, or that it was the only thing he could have done. I think he got away with killing someone whether by accident or incident and I won't be swayed. I watched the whole trial and do not feel that I am mis-informed or un-informed and I have formed my opinion. As have you.

I also concede that the state did not prove their case and that's why he walked. Guilty people walk everyday in our system, just as innocent people are also found guilty, it is what it is.
I just get angry sometimes at how people get away with stuff. Moreso with mothers or fathers who disappear their children never to be found and they are never held accountable here on earth either. I will never believe that Z's life was threatened. Did he get punched? YES, did he have injuries? YES, was he beaten to a pulp? not in my opinion. And I disagree that the "evidence" or his stories match up to what you believe. But again, it does not matter, he is aquitted. Life goes on. And you are entitled, just as I am, to your own opinion which differs from mine.

I also get angry that our POTUS uses THIS case to try to take away our guns. Like he doesn't have anything better to do, than interject himself in this case? There are thousands of cases that never make the news for whatever reason.


Peace Out

I will finish with this and leave this be.

You obviously think Zimmerman either provoked the physical confrontation or even started it, I'm not sure. Well, if that is the case, there is no physical evidence to support that or even circumstantial evidence to support that.

Zimmerman called the police and he knew they would be at the location within minutes, so common sense would tell you he is much less likely to do something that would warrant getting attacked. You don't call the police to your location and then pick a fight, makes zero sense. Secondly, we know Martin was spewing racial slurs about Zimmerman during their phone call, could be indication of where the race really came into play in this case. We also know Martin had ample time to get home after losing Zimmerman, but he chose not to. We know of Zimmerman's injuries and where he dropped his keys and flashlight match up perfectly where he states Martin punched him in the nose (he had no time to plant those items before police arrived). We also know Zimmerman passed a lie detector test, in which he was asked if he was the one that engaged the physical confrontation and we have eye witness testimony.

So, taking this all in, I don't see any justification to claim Zimmerman was responsible for Martin's death. Common sense and evidence certainly appears to point to one thing; Martin's attack on Zimmerman is was caused the legal shooting to occur.

 

[memoriesbymichelle]

If Z thought the cops would be there in minutes he would not have followed the F'n Punk (his words). As stated in other posts cops do not arrive in minutes for non-emergency calls. So he did have time.

 

[bhsmte]

If Z thought the cops would be there in minutes he would not have followed the F'n Punk (his words). As stated in other posts cops do not arrive in minutes for non-emergency calls. So he did have time.

He did stop following him and lost track of him, you watched the trial, correct. He was walking up the sidewalk to get an address for police, having no idea where Martin was and that was when Martin appeared at the T. The cops arrived within 45 seconds of the shooting.

 

[blackribbon]

If Z thought the cops would be there in minutes he would not have followed the F'n Punk (his words). As stated in other posts cops do not arrive in minutes for non-emergency calls. So he did have time.

If Z was working a neighborhood watch shift, he might have been committed to watch T for several hours....or at least until he found out where was his "home" so he had an address for the police. Anyone planning to kill someone wouldn't be in constant contact with the police...that would be beyond stupid.

My husband was known to follow young "punks" in our neighborhood to let them know he wasn't afraid and wouldn't tolerate BS from them. He was military trained and had lived in our neighborhood since he was 4 years old. He often carried a baseball bat for self-defense since he did not have a concealed license. These aren't the kids that played sports at school or belonged to Boy Scouts...these are the "kids" who were wearing known gang clothing and hung out behind the neighborhood wall doing "nothing" to all hours of the night. He would have responded exactly like Zimmerman claimed to have done. I don't know if he would have been considered a "cop wanna be" since he did apply for the state police but was told off-the-record that he was the wrong race (white) and wouldn't be chosen (after his second time making it fairly far into the interview process).

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

I'm sure Zimmerman wishes he could turn back the clock and not get out of his truck, but what exactly would have led him to believe walking down the sidewalk would bring him to a "life threatening situation"?

You can bet your life that Z wishes that exactly. Now, he will live his life in fear for himself and his family/ will be hard pressed to find a decent job / will have few trustworthy friends / will not be able to be in public for long periods at a time for fear of being noticed and accosted / and the list goes on regarding his now very different life.

If the kid killed were our own, we would ask :'What could have been done to avoid this whole thing ?' And the answer is very easy to come to.

 

[bhsmte]

You can bet your life that Z wishes that exactly. Now, he will live his life in fear for himself and his family/ will be hard pressed to find a decent job / will have few trustworthy friends / will not be able to be in public for long periods at a time for fear of being noticed and accosted / and the list goes on regarding his now very different life.

If the kid killed were our own, we would ask :'What could have been done to avoid this whole thing ?' And the answer is very easy to come to.

What is the answer to you?

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Anyone who owns a gun recognizes that it doesn't protect you from entering in a life threatening situation...the gun is there to make sure that you can exit from a life threatening situation. It does not make you feel invincible unless you are carrying to be an aggressor. Most people carry to protect themselves and those around them. Anyone who actually has a concealed gun permit will tell you that they are less likely to use it after going through the mandatory classes than they were before they took the class.

THIS ^ ! Having a concealed carry permit is for using your gun in an UNAVOIDABLE situation and most people in this country shouldnt have a CCP because they feel like they can play quasi-God now that they have it on them . A gun is for the utmost of responsible Citizen who is completely able to exit any potentially dangerous situation and wait for law enforcement to arrive .

 

[blackribbon]

THIS ^ ! Having a concealed carry permit is for using your gun in an UNAVOIDABLE situation and most people in this country shouldnt have a CCP because they feel like they can play quasi-God now that they have it on them . A gun is for the utmost of responsible Citizen who is completely able to exit any potentially dangerous situation and wait for law enforcement to arrive .

But people with concealed permits are actually less likely to use their gun than any other gun owner. Concealed weapon owners seldom play "god". What about off-duty police? Should they leave their guns at work? What about former military veterans? Can they be trusted with a gun? Most guns are legally owned without concealed gun permits...and can be legally carried as long as they remain in plain view.

The "obvious" answer to me would be "Where did I fail as a parent that my son was always finding himself in so much trouble?" I am not judging Trayvon's family because I know some kids chose to make bad choices in spite of the parenting. I have talked to my teenagers about what would be been the proper response to similar situations.

 

[bhsmte]

THIS ^ ! Having a concealed carry permit is for using your gun in an UNAVOIDABLE situation and most people in this country shouldnt have a CCP because they feel like they can play quasi-God now that they have it on them . A gun is for the utmost of responsible Citizen who is completely able to exit any potentially dangerous situation and wait for law enforcement to arrive .

Legit answer, if there was no gun, Martin would not have been shot.

But, it begs another question, if Zimmerman didn't have a gun what may have happened to him. We don't know the answer to that question and never will.

I don't like concealed weapons either, but they are legal and all the evidence in this case, points towards Zimmerman using it legally.

 

[blackribbon]

Actually, constitutionally, gun ownership is a right to protect a lawful citizen from an unreasonable government. They are not special "privileges" reserved for a select few.

 

[bhsmte]

Actually, constitutionally, gun ownership is a right to protect a lawful citizen from an unreasonable government. They are not special "privileges" reserved for a select few.

I realize that and would never want that right to go away.

What I have a problem with, are concealed weapons in public. If you want a weapon in your home or property, have at it, but your average citizen packing in public, gives me bad feelings.

 

[blackribbon]

I realize that and would never want that right to go away.

What I have a problem with, are concealed weapons in public. If you want a weapon in your home or property, have at it, but your average citizen packing in public, gives me bad feelings.

I think you would be surprised to know who actually is "packing". Some of my lovely quiet Christian friends can pull guns out of their purses. My husband always wanted me to get my concealed permit. In the meantime, we are teaching Sunday school and Awanas, being sports moms, and leading scout troops...without ever feeling like god or feeling the need to shoot anyone.

Actually a couple of my female friends are also veterans...trained by the government how to use those guns and at least one carries once a month doing reserve duty. What about a "regular citizen" gives you bad feelings?

 

[mjmcmillan]

Some of the "wanna be cops" who follow the "f' n punks" around scare me more than the punks do. No uniform, no badge, no concept of proper police procedures-- a tragedy waiting to happen.

IF-- a really big IF George Zimmerman had proper ID identifying him as "neighborhood watch"-- had announced his official business according to proper procedures-- just maybe Trayvon would be alive today and a misunderstanding could have been cleared up. Instead of that we get too much testosterone from two hotheads, one of which has the gun-ho stand-your-ground mentality to boot--- and here we are, discussing what happened.

Look, if you want to do a neighborhood watch patrol in your community, have at it. But, make some effort to do it halfway right. Security guards at any business I've been in have uniforms and badges, you can tell a mile away that this is an official security person. Would it be too much to ask that neighborhood watch people have some kind of identifying uniform??? Otherwise, you want to follow somebody 'cause you don't know them, they don't know you so they get nervous, and next thing you know we're reading about you in "The Daily Herald". Yep, sounds like a plan. How about a uniform and some kind of an idea about basic procedures? That'll work better I think.

 

[blackribbon]

Some of the "wanna be cops" who follow the "f' n punks" around scare me more than the punks do. No uniform, no badge, no concept of proper police procedures-- a tragedy waiting to happen.

IF-- a really big IF George Zimmerman had proper ID identifying him as "neighborhood watch"-- had announced his official business according to proper procedures-- just maybe Trayvon would be alive today and a misunderstanding could have been cleared up. Instead of that we get too much testosterone from two hotheads, one of which has the gun-ho stand-your-ground mentality to boot--- and here we are, discussing what happened.

Look, if you want to do a neighborhood watch patrol in your community, have at it. But, make some effort to do it halfway right. Security guards at any business I've been in have uniforms and badges, you can tell a mile away that this is an official security person. Would it be too much to ask that neighborhood watch people have some kind of identifying uniform??? Otherwise, you want to follow somebody 'cause you don't know them, they don't know you so they get nervous, and next thing you know we're reading about you in "The Daily Herald". Yep, sounds like a plan. How about a uniform and some kind of an idea about basic procedures? That'll work better I think.

Neighborhood watch is people who live in the neighborhood who volunteer to walk around their neighborhood, make their presence known, and to watch for things that appear to be suspicious (ie. don't belong). There are no uniforms...just normal clothes on normal citizens. Sometimes they carry walkie talkies to talk back and forth with each other and I would expect that a cell phone might be highly recommended. No uniforms...that is ridiculous. If you want uniforms, then a neighborhood could pay high fees and rent a security guard to patrol the neighborhood but you have to find a way to pay for this.

I have known "security guards" that carry weapons. I would not feel the least bit safe with an armed security guard...other than the ones who are off-duty cops, the rest tend to be scary cop wanna bes with serious "god" issues. Give me a citizen who only carries for self-defense any day of the week.

 

[mjmcmillan]

I think maybe I should subscribe to "The Daily Herald". This is gonna be interesting.

Somebody follows somebody they don't know through the neighborhood. The somebody being followed is getting nervous because he is being followed by someone he doesn't know. (I don't know about you, but if I'm in a place and someone started following me, my first though generally isn't "OK, that's just the neighborhood watch person".) We're talking entirely plain-clothes here, no announcement being made because the neighborhood watch person doesn't have the concept of proper procedure, so now we have two scared people-- one following, the other being followed. How long, exactly, before another bad incident happens? If I'm being followed, I'm not thinking "neighborhood watch", I'm thinking I'm gonna get mugged. This is not good.

A uniform, a sash, something that identifies the neighborhood watch as neighborhood watch would be a good place to start.

 

[BelievingIsObeying]

A 'Brother' is not everyone, but, a fellow Christian only. So if an Attacker came at you with a long sharp knife is it extremely unlikely that he would be fellow Brother Christian. Secondly, having options available to us to excersise in a deadly confrontation is vastly different than having no options available to save our own life (or the life of a loved one who is before us) . Lastly, God permits killing in self defense so long as it is absolutely justified and as a very last resort because God values the life of the Innocent . That said...as much as it depends on Us, we should avoid dangerous life threatening situations which is what Zimmerman should have done, but with an inescapable scenario where we will be killed unless we react right away...God gives us the right to stand for the sanctity of Life : Ours .

How do you suggest I judge a person as Christian or not? Should I always ask people of their faith and trust what they say before treating them as my brother?

If an attacker came at me with a knife, it is just as likely for them to claim to be a Christian as not a Christian. I can not know if they are or are not Christian. As I recall there was a certain father (Christian) who started to attack his son with a knife.

So, am I right that you think that God permits a person to kill another person to prevent the killing of a person?

Do you have any proof that Zimmerman would have been killed the night of the attack if he had not murdered the attacker?

 

[blackribbon]

Do you have any proof that Zimmerman would have been killed the night of the attack if he had not murdered the attacker?

What constitutes proof? His dead body? There are very little things that ever can be "proved".

It doesn't take much to bang the head in such a way that death occurs...so serious wounds aren't even proof either way. Ask Goliath how many times it takes to be hit in order to die. Plenty of people end up in the ER with serious concussions and no sign of outward damage.

 

[BelievingIsObeying]

What constitutes proof? His dead body? There are very little things that ever can be "proved".

It doesn't take much to bang the head in such a way that death occurs...so serious wounds aren't even proof either way. Ask Goliath how many times it takes to be hit in order to die. Plenty of people end up in the ER with serious concussions and no sign of outward damage.

Proof, like there is proof that Zimmerman did kill. No proof that Martin would have killed.

 

[blackribbon]

Proof, like there is proof that Zimmerman did kill. No proof that Martin would have killed.

The proof that Zimmerman killed is that he SAID he did it and a dead body. Again, what would constitute "proof" that Z would have died if he hadn't pulled that trigger can't exist short of a dead body. You can't ever prove that someone would have died...only surmize that it is likely. This isn't tv. There is almost never tv show kind of "proof". There is only circumstantial evidence which did exist in this case.

(Did you know that real police find the fact that society and jury now expect "proof" to be one of their biggest frustrations. TV shows take real technology and make it out to be better than it really exists...or take expensive technology that doesn't exist in the general population and acts like every cop has access to it. If in the real world, you walked into a room with the magic spray that shows blood...and you spray up a whole room, you have just ruined every bit of your evidence because blood that has been sprayed can't be tested for DNA or anything else...so you can only prove a lot of blood but not who it belonged to....no proof of anything of value. I was told a real detective would never do anything like that.)

 

[bhsmte]

How do you suggest I judge a person as Christian or not? Should I always ask people of their faith and trust what they say before treating them as my brother?

If an attacker came at me with a knife, it is just as likely for them to claim to be a Christian as not a Christian. I can not know if they are or are not Christian. As I recall there was a certain father (Christian) who started to attack his son with a knife.

So, am I right that you think that God permits a person to kill another person to prevent the killing of a person?

Do you have any proof that Zimmerman would have been killed the night of the attack if he had not murdered the attacker?

To use deadly force in self defense, you only need to fear great bodily harm to defend yourself. You see, the whole idea of self defense, it to actually defend yourself, BEFORE YOU INCUR GREAT BODILY HARM AND OR DEATH.

The law requires no injuries to have occurred to have this fear be present.