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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
If you kill someone
- Thread starter memoriesbymichelle
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BelievingIsObeying
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memoriesbymichelle said:
What about military/police ending others lives...murder or killing?
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No comment on the Zimmerman thing - since I don't know/can't recall anything about it.
But a comment on your post. It seems highly cynical for no good reason, and punishing.
I got in a car accident in my early 20's and one person was killed (a passenger in the other car). The police ruled they made an illegal/unsafe turn and I was totally exonerated. To have someone assume or imply that it really wasn't an accident (by putting "accident" in quotes), and that they "Maybe didn't TRY to have an accident or kill someone" is downright chilling to me. Why assume guilt or evil motive when any tragedy occurs.
To make a judgement that someone like me should serve some time or get punished for something that was not my fault in any way is also chilling. I'm sorry.
Would you like to serve time if your tire blew out because you hit a nail or something, lost control and hit a pedestrian? Would you like people assuming you were really out to kill them? Maybe serve some jail time?
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Cynical? Well maybe I am cynical of the world and supposed justice. I've seen people that, IMO, got away with murder. Did I say that you should serve time for your accident? No I didn't. And in your case, I'm glad you were not charged or held accountable. It sounds like it was an accident, just like the one blackribbon posted about. BTW I don't assume guilt. If you were following someone in your car and purposely turned in front of them to cause an accident and someone died, I would have a different opinion even though you might have meant just to stop them. JMO.
I watched a story about an 11 year old that beat a 6 year old to death. He was being tried as an adult for 1st degree murder. I did not think he should be put away for life with no chance of parole. I did think he should have a consequence with some time served.
I also do not consider people in battle being commanded to "kill" the enemy the same as someone murdering someone as a civilian. To me that's apples and oranges, although I would not like to be a soldier that had to "kill". But I appreciate those that have been that have afforded us the freedom we have in this country.
I consider the actions of the individual after the fact too. If I had "accidentally" shot someone, even if he was beating the hell out of me, I would want him punished, but I wouldn't want him dead. I would say call an ambulance. Maybe I would not want to do CPR but I wouldn't want him dead. Of course I have not been in that situation. So even after, when I would be questioned by the police, I would be saying I was just trying to stop him from hurting me, I didn't mean for him to die. I would have said, I felt I had to shoot him, because I was in fear of my life, but I would still only shoot him to stop him, not kill him.
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mjmcmillan
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I'm fascinated by the concept of people who DO try to have an accident. Assuming for a moment that they don't do it as an insurance scam--- I've read of such things so I know that happens-- how about a little bit of enlightenment here? What would be going on in the mind of someone who does try to have an accident? Assuming, of course, that it's not an insurance scam and that the person trying to have an accident isn't suicidal.
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If I walked in and witnessed someone raping my daughter, I would feel anger, rage, and fear and probably would be capable of killing the person if it was in my power to do so. Would I be guilt of murder if I succeeded?
What about paid killers? They feel no emotions.
I think murder has to do with the intend. King David murdered Bathsheba's husband without touching him when he sent him to the battle front. At the same time, he only killed Goliath because it was a challenge and a war situation even though the death was by his own hands.
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Blackribbon, do you think paid killers should be punished? Defending your daughter against assault? no I wouldn't put you in prison, that's defense! As far as Uriah, David was completely in the wrong even though HE personally didn't do it, he was covering up for his sin and as far as Goliath, Goliath was a giant that was going to kill all of them so David was defending Israel with God on his side.
A lot different than the zimmerman case IMO. And that is all it is, is JMHO ONLY
A lot different than the zimmerman case IMO. And that is all it is, is JMHO ONLY
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MOD HAT ON
This thread has had a slight cleanup. Everyone please remember to address the subject, and not the poster. Thank you, and carry on.
MOD HAT OFF
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TheyCallMeDavid
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Its never ok to murder someone...but in extreme situations...it is permissible to kill someone . Big difference. We kill others legally, in times of war and if our life is truly in danger by another who wants to kill us or very seriously hurt us (self defense) .
Re: the Zimmerman trial ---- Those of us who carry concealed weapons legally, have the responsibility to forego our 2nd Amendment Rights if necessary and instead do everything we can to prevent a potentially dangerous situation from coming about in the first place. And this is where Mr. Z . dropped the ball big time. He phoned the Police for assistance, yet he didnt follow thru with that by waiting for them to arrive to investigate the situation. Instead, he was emboldened by the power of having a gun legally / was sick n tired of bad guys getting away with crime in his neighborhood / and racially profiled the black kid he highly suspected was on the prowl for no good. This was a dangerous recipe for disaster . When these kinds of tragic events occur, we must ask ourselves what could have been done in the beginning to avoid what eventually occured in the end ? If it were solely up to me...i would have found Z. guilty of homicidal negligence or whatever the legal term is for that. I would have sentenced him to approx. 5-10 years for his irresponsibility, egotism, racism, and vigilantism .
Even when we are justified in killing someone in self defense despite our best efforts to avoid doing so ...the Shooter always suffers in a variety of forms ; most notably : Litigation fees bankrupting him/her , permanently damaged reputation, low liklihood of getting employed , and retribution from the deceased Family and Friends. In short, the Shooters life becomes of much less quality from having to defend himself with no other choice. So in reality, no one wins. Neither does society as a whole.
Being a concealed carry Person, legally, I could kill someone if i absolutely had to ...and would do so . I only hope and pray that i can never be put in that circumstance because it is forever life-changing for all involved.
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BelievingIsObeying
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TheyCallMeDavid said:
Possibly life ending for the person you shoot. I would rather die than kill.
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The problem with the concept of "just waiting for the police to arrive" is that the guy would be gone by then and they would only take a report of a "suspicious" male in a black hoodie at that point. The kind of defeats the purpose of neighborhood watch... Have you ever waited for the police to arrive for a non-violent report? They might get there the next day in a busy city.
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mjmcmillan
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Is that such a bad thing? A "suspicious" man walks through the neighborhood. If he commits no crime, all you have is a suspicion that he "may" have been up to no good. Right now, we really have no way of knowing what Trayvon would have done if he had been left unmolested. He may have just crossed the neighborhood and gone home-- some testimony seems to indicate that was his initial intention.
Any stranger passing through your neighborhood might qualify as a "suspicious person" simply by being a stranger passing through the neighborhood. If you report the person to the police and they come the next day to take the report, where exactly is the problem? Can you prove the "suspicious person" was up to no good, or were you just having a case of the "nervous Nellies" because someone you didn't know was passing through?
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