If you cannot believe the genesis account....

[Něco hrubého oprýskaného 1]

That's what this is all about. Is it some man (Moses) inventing the creation story as it seems fit to do at the beginning of a religious work or is it God himself giving us some sort of synopsis of the creation? Since this material is far from useful...it seems to fit in as a sort of man-made formality.

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you asking what the point is of God stating something that isn't true?

Actually, I'm not sure what the point of the description of the creation in Genesis is at all. The information is far from practical.

Anyway, my little flower allegory corresponds to the light and the stars exactly. When I put this way, all of a sudden you see my point, that's all.

 

[MSBS]

I think a christian who thinks that way is putting their god in a box.....

I'm gunna have to start buying those irony meters wholesale.

At least our box is bigger than yours though.

 

[Gracchus]

I'm gunna have to start buying those irony meters wholesale.

At least our box is bigger than yours though.

In most cases eek: sorry ) the size is less significant than the contents.

 

[Něco hrubého oprýskaného 1]

Not being able to understand esoteric thought and abstraction is also very limiting for God. The Bible takes it into consideration that humans can think abstractly and use metaphors. We are expected to use these faculties and shouldn't read the Bible as if it's some Idiot's Guide to the Universe (I'm not calling anyone an idiot...I don't know how else to put it...you know what I mean).

 

[MQTA]

Is there one of those Bible for Dummies books?

 

[Arikay]

Yep, I have a chuckle everytime I walk by it at Barnes & Nobles.

Is there one of those Bible for Dummies books?

 

[aeroz19]

Yep, I have a chuckle everytime I walk by it at Barnes & Nobles.

Yeah, ok, funny, ha ha, hee hee, ho ho

Some people could really use that book, lol

 

[Follower of Christ]

I'm gunna have to start buying those irony meters wholesale.

At least our box is bigger than yours though.

hmmmmm.........lemme see how ignorant that sounds

FOC: God is POWERFUL enough to create in 6 days as His words states

Heathen: God can ONLY have done it in the way WE think he did based on OUR understanding of the data.....

Sorry pal.......I believe in Gods miracles AND I believe Jesus cast out demons.....

God in a box........You folks dont even seem to have figured out what box to use

 

[Ishmael Borg]

But who could write The Bible for Dummies? The differences in scriptural interpretations among theologists dwarf biologists' differences in interpreting the evidence supporting both evolutionary theory and abiogenesis theory combined!

 

[aeroz19]

The Bible is so clearly geocentric that modern literalist such as yourself who don't believe in geocentrism have to go through the sort of gryrations you are demonstrating here to desperately try to deny its clear geocentrism.



As I said you must go through incredible gyrations to deny the clear geocentrism of the Bible. This is a good example.

Nope, it’s really quite clear what the scriptures are telling us.

Psalm 19:4-6 Their line [the heavens] is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race. His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof." (I added the bolding)

Their line is gone out through all the earth…and nothing is hid from the heat thereof.



Nothing on earth is hid from the heat.

Do you think that Gerardus Bouw, Malcolm Bouden and the other geocentrist didn't do independant Bible study? I'd like to see you debate scripture with one of them. You would have no chance because the Bible IS geocentric as they point out.

It seems they did the same studying you did.

I have read Genesis with an open mind, including both Genesis 1 and 2. Somehow they seem like pretty different stories to me. I think they would to you also if you actually read them with an "open mind".

I’ve read Genesis quite a few times and almost always with an open mind.

Now please show me the verse in Genesis that says the earth rotates or that it orbits the sun.

The verses used below seem to prove that the earth now rotates about the sun, as they state that the earth will no longer rotate during the Millennial reign.

So did He blink the light of his glory on and off to create mornings and evenings of the days before He created the sun? Why would He do that?

I don’t think I’ll answer that one.

It looks like you are confusing Christianity with strict Biblical literalism. OK. If you want some Christians to comment maybe we can get Marshall Hall, Gerardus Bouw, Professor James Hanson of the Tychonian Society, Malcom Bouwden or some of the other "True Christians" who actually Believe the Bible's clear message of geocentricity to come here and comment.



the frumious Bandersnatch

Ok, lol, bring them on. I was actually considering emailing them to tell them they are giving Christianity a bad name, but they’re probably too brainwashed to see what the verses are really saying. I might still try though.



Here’s a recap on the verses:



Psalm 93:1 "The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is established, that it cannot be moved.

Psalm 96:10: (1) Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: (2) the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: (3) he shall judge the people righteously...."

Psalm 104:5: " Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.”



Again,these verses indicate a future event. (numbering added)

(1) The Lord reigneth



(2) The world shall be established and shall not be moved.



(3) The people will be judged.



I added the fonts to emphasize the verb tense. This is talking about the future, not now. It does not say that the earth is established; it says it shall be established.



The people will be judged.



Now, if you’re still assuming that the verses are indicating a present event, or one that happened at creation, here is a question for you. Why do you think God would put three separate, distinct, thoughts together in one sentence? What does the world being still and fixed have anything to do with the Lord reigning and the people being judged? Nothing unless you read Revelation and see that this verse is referencing the Millennial Reign. Are you familiar with the book of Revelation and the Millennial Reign? If not, I encourage you to read Revelation.



In the future, the earth will be fixed and will not rotate. Why? Because there will be no need of the sun.



(2) The earth being fixed:


Revelation 21:23 - And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

Revelation 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honor into it.



(3) The people being judged:



Revelation 20:12 - And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.



In conclusion, the verses wrongly used to prove geocentricity, as well as the verses in Revelation both reference the events that will happen during the second coming of Jesus Christ. It is very clear. If you still don’t believe me, do a search into it yourself. Read the verses in the Bible; study them.



I have proven to you that the verses you used in Psalms do not state that the sun rotates about the earth. I have, in fact, proven that these verses state that the earth will no longer rotate during the Millennial Reign.

 

[MSBS]

hmmmmm.........lemme see how ignorant that sounds

FOC: God is POWERFUL enough to create in 6 days as His words states

Heathen: God can ONLY have done it in the way WE think he did based on OUR understanding of the data.....

Sorry pal.......I believe in Gods miracles AND I believe Jesus cast out demons.....

God in a box........You folks dont even seem to have figured out what box to use

So much for humor. And I really don't appriciate you calling me a heathen, which is, after all, a violation of forum rules.

 

[Follower of Christ]

So much for humor. And I really don't appriciate you calling me a heathen, which is, after all, a violation of forum rules.

It was pretty much a general statement.....
Ill be sure to include a list of folks who are not on the heathen list next time

And whether you agree with it or not, I see evolution as a heathen teaching anyway....
It serves no purpose but to cuase God fearing believers to slowly start rejecting the truths in the Bible

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Nope, it’s really quite clear what the scriptures are telling us.

Yep, they tell us that the earth is fixed in space and the sun goes around it daily, exept when stopped or turned back at the request of some Biblical character.

Their line is gone out through all the earth…and nothing is hid from the heat thereof.

Nothing on earth is hid from the heat.

Then why does it say

" His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof" ?

It seems they did the same studying you did.

They studied what the Bible actually says and not what you wish it said.

I’ve read Genesis quite a few times and almost always with an open mind.

So which acount of creation do you believe. Genesis 1 or 2? How much will you have to twist and turn to try to tell us and yourself that they are the same?

The verses used below seem to prove that the earth now rotates about the sun, as they state that the earth will no longer rotate during the Millennial reign.

Will that be before or after a third part of the stars of heaven are cast to the earth? I think casting even one actual star to earth would pretty much end things. It makes no sense to try to take science from the Bible in general and even less sense to try to take science from The Revelation of St. John the Divine.

I don’t think I’ll answer that one.

I didn't think you could.

Ok, lol, bring them on. I was actually considering emailing them to tell them they are giving Christianity a bad name, but they’re probably too brainwashed to see what the verses are really saying. I might still try though.

Another Irony meter bites the dust. You should know brainwashed when you see it. I am sure they consider you too brainwashed by the Copernican view foisted on you by the evolutionists to see the clear truth in the Bible.

(Snip)
I have proven to you that the verses you used in Psalms do not state that the sun rotates about the earth. I have, in fact, proven that these verses state that the earth will no longer rotate during the Millennial Reign.

You have proven nothing except how much you have to twist and turn in your desperate and failed attempts to deny the obvious geocentrism of the Bible.

the frumious Bandersnatch

 

[Arikay]

And whoes fault is it that evolution causes believers to reject the truths in the bible?
Why the people that turn the evolution vs creationism debate into a salvation issue, of course.

It was pretty much a general statement.....
Ill be sure to include a list of folks who are not on the heathen list next time

And whether you agree with it or not, I see evolution as a heathen teaching anyway....
It serves no purpose but to cuase God fearing believers to slowly start rejecting the truths in the Bible

 

[Follower of Christ]

And whoes fault is it that evolution causes believers to reject the truths in the bible?
Why the people that turn the evolution vs creationism debate into a salvation issue, of course.

EHHHHH
Wrong.....

Its the ones who take it from Evol. and global flood to fake demons being cast out and virgin birth myths.....

 

[Arikay]

Really?
Now lets check reality, maybe you should ask around a bit, quite a few people on these forums are christians and accept evolution, Matter of fact I believe the stats say that the majority of christian accept evolution, but there are many atheists (check on Infidels) that have deconverted because of fundementalism.

If you were right, then reality should say something different, but it doesn't (Unless of course you want to make the jump and judge the majority of christians as false christians).

EHHHHH
Wrong.....

Its the ones who take it from Evol. and global flood to fake demons being cast out and virgin birth myths.....

 

[Nathan Poe]

hmmmmm.........lemme see how ignorant that sounds

Oh goody. I haven't played the strawman game in hours...

FOC: God is POWERFUL enough to create in 6 days as His words states

No argument here. God is that powerful. In fact, He's even more powerful. He could've done it in 6 hours, six minutes, or 6/10000000 of a second.

Heathen: God can ONLY have done it in the way WE think he did based on OUR understanding of the data.....

Scientist: Based on our understanding of the data, of all the way God could've done it, this is the way He most likely did it...

FOC: but, but, but... The BIBLE!

Scientist: "but, but, but...." Yes, what about it?

FOC: But, but, but.... ABSOLUTE PROOF!!!!!

Scientist: Well, seeing has how you can't have "ABSOLUTE PROOF" of anything by your definition, your argument is absurd.

FOC: Sorry pal.......I believe in Gods miracles AND I believe Jesus cast out demons.....

Scientist: Sorry pal, but this has nothing to do with how the world came about.

FOC: Well, You're not really a Christian, so why should I listen to you? I HAVE A BIBLE!

Scientist:

God in a box........You folks dont even seem to have figured out what box to use

May we borrow your Bible-shaped Box? That is, if there's room in it left over from your God and your infallible interpretation...

 

[aeroz19]

You have proven nothing except how much you have to twist and turn in your desperate and failed attempts to deny the obvious geocentrism of the Bible.

the frumious Bandersnatch

I know now that nothing I say to you will change your mind; it is fixed (no pun intended). Let's not harbor hard feelings with each other, however. We have both shared our views on the scriptures; I am done now. The only thing I have left to say is...you troublemaker.

 

[aeroz19]

No argument here. God is that powerful. In fact, He's even more powerful. He could've done it in 6 hours, six minutes, or 6/10000000 of a second.

Are you really an atheist? :raised eyebrows:

Scientist: Based on our understanding of the data, of all the way God could've done it, this is the way He most likely did it...

FOC: but, but, but... The BIBLE!

Scientist: "but, but, but...." Yes, what about it?

FOC: But, but, but.... ABSOLUTE PROOF!!!!!

Scientist: Well, seeing has how you can't have "ABSOLUTE PROOF" of anything by your definition, your argument is absurd.

FOC: Sorry pal.......I believe in Gods miracles AND I believe Jesus cast out demons.....

Scientist: Sorry pal, but this has nothing to do with how the world came about.

FOC: Well, You're not really a Christian, so why should I listen to you? I HAVE A BIBLE!

Scientist:


May we borrow your Bible-shaped Box? That is, if there's room in it left over from your God and your infallible interpretation...

You two are funny to watch (read).

 

[Nathan Poe]

Are you really an atheist? :raised eyebrows:

Really. Ex-Catholic, to be exact. But you'll find that the former Christians around here know their theology pretty well, and have more respect for the power of a God they don't believe in than do the people who believe in their Bibles...

You two are funny to watch (read).

"Stupidity, like nuclear power, can be harnessed for good or for evil." --Scott Adams.