If you are "Christians" then why do you waste your time...

[OldWiseGuy]

God established the US to be ruled by "We The People." We choose our representative in the government God has raised up. Failure to participate is telling God that we refuse to participate in the government He ordained for this region of the world.
We are ambassadors of God's kingdom, but we are also leaders in the Republic that is the United States of America.
Daniel did not shirk his role in the Babylonian government. Joseph did not shirk his responsibility in the Egyptian government. We should not shirk our responsibility in the US government.

Our first duty as Christians and as citizens is to change our thoughtless behavior. Let's take the beam out of our own eye first.

Pay off consumer debts.
Get healthy.
Stop doing drugs.
Be better employees, and bosses.
Stop being a jerk.
Buy quality stuff, American made if possible.
Pay your taxes.
Learn how to drive.
Don't text and drive.
Learn right from wrong.
Don't block the grocery aisle with your cart.
Teach your kids right from wrong.
Don't litter, or spit, or curse.

If "We the People" would behave ourselves government would shrink dramatically and life would be much better for all of us.

 

[JCFantasy23]

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[JCFantasy23]

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Non-Christian replies have been cleaned up since it has been moved to a Christian only area.

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[RDKirk]

Real Christians can and should vote.

Does that mean the Christians in China, Vietnam, and North Korea are not real Christians? This thread reads as though the only Christians in the world are in the US.

We are citizens of the kingdom of Heaven. We are each deployed to various nations of the world (1 Peter) to execute a mission of limited duration in the nation of deployment. When we complete our mission, we'll go home.

So we should observe these nations from the view point of aliens, pilgrims, and sojourners (1 Peter)--not as natives. We are diplomats on a diplomatic mission. We are not "home" in any of these nations.

No soldier gets entangled in civilian pursuits, since his aim is to please his commander. -- 1 Timothy 2

"Entangled." Remaining unentangled in the affairs of the world and concentrating on the mission given us by Christ is not apathy any more than a soldier fighting in Afghanistan without becoming entangled in Afghan politics is not apathetic.

Whether we are Christians in America, China, North Korea, Vietnam, Japan, India, or Pakistan, we all have exactly the same mission and should be doing exactly the same thing.

 

[Circle Christ]

Matthew 22:17-21
Tell us, then, what you think. Is it lawful to pay taxes to Caesar, or not?” But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, “Why put me to the test, you hypocrites? Show me the coin for the tax.” And they brought him a denarius. And Jesus said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” They said, “Caesar's.” Then he said to them, “Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.”

 

[Sketcher]

Does that mean the Christians in China, Vietnam, and North Korea are not real Christians? This thread reads as though the only Christians in the world are in the US.

We are citizens of the kingdom of Heaven. We are each deployed to various nations of the world (1 Peter) to execute a mission of limited duration in the nation of deployment. When we complete our mission, we'll go home.

So we should observe these nations from the view point of aliens, pilgrims, and sojourners (1 Peter)--not as natives. We are diplomats on a diplomatic mission. We are not "home" in any of these nations.

No soldier gets entangled in civilian pursuits, since his aim is to please his commander. -- 1 Timothy 2

"Entangled." Remaining unentangled in the affairs of the world and concentrating on the mission given us by Christ is not apathy any more than a soldier fighting in Afghanistan without becoming entangled in Afghan politics is not apathetic.

Whether we are Christians in America, China, North Korea, Vietnam, Japan, India, or Pakistan, we all have exactly the same mission and should be doing exactly the same thing.

I was talking about what is permissible for Christians as the people of God, not the political reality for them in authoritarian countries.

 

[RDKirk]

I was talking about what is permissible for Christians as the people of God, not the political reality for them in authoritarian countries.

You said "should vote," which does not denote mere permissibly (that Christians may vote) but that Christians had a moral imperative to vote.

Any moral imperative for a Christian should show ample evidence in scripture, but I see no such thing about Christians having a moral imperative to participate in the governments of men.

 

[Sketcher]

You said "should vote," which does not denote mere permissibly (that Christians may vote) but that Christians had a moral imperative to vote.

Any moral imperative for a Christian should show ample evidence in scripture, but I see no such thing about Christians having a moral imperative to participate in the governments of men.

Voting when you can is part of being salt and light. If none of us voted, corruption would accelerate, and that always has bad consequences for the country in which it happens. Possibly even for the world in the case of the US. The country hasn't done great lately, but if more Christians would inform themselves and vote, I believe church culture would be better off, this country would be better off, and the world would be better off. As it is, many are not informed and I believe we are all worse off because of that.

 

[RDKirk]

Voting when you can is part of being salt and light. If none of us voted, corruption would accelerate, and that always has bad consequences for the country in which it happens. Possibly even for the world in the case of the US. The country hasn't done great lately, but if more Christians would inform themselves and vote, I believe church culture would be better off, this country would be better off, and the world would be better off. As it is, many are not informed and I believe we are all worse off because of that.

You said church culture would be better off? You're saying the culture of the Body of Christ depends on American Christians voting in American elections?

You're saying the world would be better off if Christians vote than if Christians sought first the Kingdom of Heaven?

 

[Sketcher]

You said church culture would be better off? You're saying the culture of the Body of Christ depends on American Christians voting in American elections?

You're saying the world would be better off if Christians vote than if Christians sought first the Kingdom of Heaven?

It would be better off if they were well-informed on the issues of the day, and cared enough to vote. As it is, many Christians are ignorant of these issues and just assume they're supposed to vote a certain way. Hence the people who confuse welfare with what Jesus actually said to do, and the people who just assumed that going to war with Iraq was a good thing. If more Christians were better informed and voted, then public support may have been different on both of these issues, and others.

 

[RDKirk]

It would be better off if they were well-informed on the issues of the day, and cared enough to vote. As it is, many Christians are ignorant of these issues and just assume they're supposed to vote a certain way. Hence the people who confuse welfare with what Jesus actually said to do, and the people who just assumed that going to war with Iraq was a good thing. If more Christians were better informed and voted, then public support may have been different on both of these issues, and others.

Being better informed doesn't have anything to do with being Christian. Any old pagan can be better informed.

 

[Sketcher]

Being better informed doesn't have anything to do with being Christian. Any old pagan can be better informed.

Which makes it all the more important for Christians to be better informed. As it is, many uninformed Christians are trying to witness to better informed non-believers, who tend to not convert.

 

[RDKirk]

Which makes it all the more important for Christians to be better informed. As it is, many uninformed Christians are trying to witness to better informed non-believers, who tend to not convert.

You mean witnessing as to which is the better presidential candidate--because that's what the discussion was about.

Unless you're moving the goalpost.

 

[Sketcher]

You mean witnessing as to which is the better presidential candidate--because that's what the discussion was about.

Unless you're moving the goalpost.

I'm not moving the goalpost. I believe that being an informed voter benefits the country both policy-wise and culture-wise.

 

[W2L]

Politics are nothing but lies and war. I dont support lies and war. Im happy to have nothing to do with politics. God will not expect me to be deceived by politics.​

 

[W2L]

I'm not moving the goalpost. I believe that being an informed voter benefits the country both policy-wise and culture-wise.

Politics are deceptive, and we cannot be informed via deception.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

I believe that being an informed voter benefits the country both policy-wise and culture-wise.

If becoming informed means
listening to the nationwide news (ALL the Wash.D.C. political pundits?) last month
when they all admitted your vote doesn't count
and the 'pick' is made independent of votes or votes,
then
perhaps yes, knowing that might benefit the country,
but I'm not sure how that would help policy or culture (both of which are in the pit)...

 

[Sketcher]

Politics are deceptive, and we cannot be informed via deception.

That's why I said "informed." The alternative is willful ignorance, which is of no benefit.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

QUOTE RDKirk, Does that mean the Christians in China, Vietnam, and North Korea are not real Christians? This thread reads as though the only Christians in the world are in the US.

We are citizens of the kingdom of Heaven. We are each deployed to various nations of the world (1 Peter) to execute a mission of limited duration in the nation of deployment. When we complete our mission, we'll go home.

So we should observe these nations from the view point of aliens, pilgrims, and sojourners (1 Peter)--not as natives. We are diplomats on a diplomatic mission. We are not "home" in any of these nations.

No soldier gets entangled in civilian pursuits, since his aim is to please his commander. -- 1 Timothy 2

"Entangled." Remaining unentangled in the affairs of the world and concentrating on the mission given us by Christ is not apathy any more than a soldier fighting in Afghanistan without becoming entangled in Afghan politics is not apathetic.

Whether we are Christians in America, China, North Korea, Vietnam, Japan, India, or Pakistan, we all have exactly the same mission and should be doing exactly the same thing. QUOTE
Just think.... if 'Christians' in the usa did the same thing Christians in china did,
people in the usa would see a difference between Christians and pagans...
just like people in china can see the difference between Christians and pagans in china !

 

[W2L]

That's why I said "informed." The alternative is willful ignorance, which is of no benefit.

Its not for me to say whether or not people should or shouldn't vote. My personal opinion is that politics are just another worldly distraction for Christians, and anyone else for that matter. Its not like they will ever tell us the truth, so it seems like we are fighting over lies. We must choose to believe one lie or another. Thats not a choice at all. It not willful ignorance if we choose to not participate in politics.