If you are Calvinist

[renniks]

And yes, sometimes God has a reason for evil. See Genesis 50:20.

Now you are calling me evil for questioning calvinism. Huge face palm.
And those were Joseph's words ...not God's.

 

[Carl Emerson]

For the record, the position I take is that God gives us free choice within limits.

For the unsaved a limit on wickedness (think Sodom)

For the saved a limit on straying away (think Slaves to righteousness because of the fear of God within us)

This combined with His irresistible love towards those He chose long before we were born, completes the picture.

The end result is a people forever thankful for an undeserved salvation.

Within these limits however there is lots of room to move and our choices determine our eternal rewards and status.

As a prodigal son I daily appreciate His great grace in the process.

His love and compassion for the lost works through us to bring His chosen back to Himself, both the saved and unsaved.

So we walk in celebration with Him daily - Praise His Holy Name.

I have come to this position after independent study of His Word combined with personal encounters with His great Love.

Let's treasure His beautiful book and not use it as a weapon to control others.

The seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

 

[Hammster]

Now you are calling me evil for questioning calvinism. Huge face palm.
And those were Joseph's words ...not God's.

I said you were lying. Lying is evil. And you are misrepresenting what I said. Hopefully you’ll correct that.

 

[Hammster]

And those were Joseph's words ...not God's.

I guess I’ll see if Peter is allowed.


For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.
— Acts 4:27-28

 

[renniks]

I said you were lying. Lying is evil. And you are misrepresenting what I said. Hopefully you’ll correct that.

Lying about what?

 

[Hammster]

Lying about what?

Again? I already told you. Just follow the convo back.

 

[renniks]

I guess I’ll see if Peter is allowed.


For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur.
— Acts 4:27-28

" The passage in Acts 2:23, teaches, not that God willed that the Jews should slay Christ, but, that he was “delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God” into the power of those who wished to slay him. Nothing more can be inferred from Acts 4:28. For God predetermined to deliver His own Son into the hands of his enemies, that He might suffer from them that which God had laid upon him, and which the Jews, of their own wickedness and hatred against Christ, had determined to inflict upon him."

"Jacob Arminius"

 

[renniks]

Again? I already told you. Just follow the convo back.

No actually you never said what the lie was.
Are you referring to:
"Lol, it's amusing how Calvinists constantly confirm free will while arguing against it."?

You did in fact claim we could choose if we are in Christ. That is certainly Free Will.

 

[Hammster]

" The passage in Acts 2:23, teaches, not that God willed that the Jews should slay Christ, but, that he was “delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God” into the power of those who wished to slay him. Nothing more can be inferred from Acts 4:28. For God predetermined to deliver His own Son into the hands of his enemies, that He might suffer from them that which God had laid upon him, and which the Jews, of their own wickedness and hatred against Christ, had determined to inflict upon him."

"Jacob Arminius"

Strange that I didn’t quote that verse.

 

[renniks]

Strange that I didn’t quote that verse.

what?
This is your exact quote:"
For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur."
— Acts 4:27-28

 

[Hammster]

No actually you never said what the lie was.
Are you referring to:
"Lol, it's amusing how Calvinists constantly confirm free will while arguing against it."?

You did in fact claim we could choose if we are in Christ. That is certainly Free Will.

No. That’s free choice. I’ve made that distinction clear.

 

[Hammster]

what?
This is your exact quote:"
For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur."
— Acts 4:27-28

And that’s NOT Acts 2:23.

 

[Hammster]

what?
This is your exact quote:"
For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur."
— Acts 4:27-28

And that’s NOT Acts 2:23.

My mistake. I missed the reference.

 

[renniks]

No. That’s free choice. I’ve made that distinction clear.

Free choice is free will. And you cannot logically say you make free choices if all those choices are predestined. In fact, that would mean you have zero free choices.

 

[Hammster]

Free choice is free will. And you cannot logically say you make free choices if all those choices are predestined. In fact, that would mean you have zero free choices.

It’s not. If your will is a slave to sin, your choices are to sin.

However, if you’d like me to give you incontrovertible proof that you cannot just choose to believe what you want, let me know.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Free choice is free will. And you cannot logically say you make free choices if all those choices are predestined. In fact, that would mean you have zero free choices.

Free choice is not free will...

I can choose to do something (free choice) but be prevented from doing it (no free will)

Free choice is a decision

Free will is an action

Our free choice decisions as believers are not predestined.

Our free will actions are limited, to seal our salvation - this is predestined...

Once we are in salvation, we remain there by His grace alone.

We do not retain salvation by works.

 

[renniks]

It’s not. If your will is a slave to sin, your choices are to sin.

However, if you’d like me to give you incontrovertible proof that you cannot just choose to believe what you want, let me know.

Oh, please, please, pretty please with a cherry on top?

 

[renniks]

Free choice is not free will...

I can choose to do something (free choice) but be prevented from doing it (no free will)

Free choice is a decision

Free will is an action

Our free choice decisions as believers are not predestined.

Our free will actions are limited, to seal our salvation - this is predestined...

Once we are in salvation, we remain there by His grace alone.

We do not retain salvation by works.

That's a very narrow definition of free will that you just invented. So, now you want to make actions and choices two different categories, but actions obviously follow choices. And sin is not only actions, according to Jesus himself, but also ones thought life, so I think you are confused. I would like to see some real-life illustrations of what this would look like. I decide to go get drunk today, but God stops me? Ok, I could see him doing that in certain situations, but not across the board. Obviously, we are free to make a lot of stupid choices and do a lot of stupid things that God doesn't stop. And yet, we are instructed to be wise and to be in the Spirit at all times, while you claim God often Destined us to sin instead. That makes God schizophrenic. It makes no sense to tell your children to obey and then predestine them not to. Not to mention it turns a lot of the Bible into nonsense.

Free choice is not free will...

I can choose to do something (free choice) but be prevented from doing it (no free will)

Free choice is a decision

Free will is an action

Our free choice decisions as believers are not predestined.

Our free will actions are limited, to seal our salvation - this is predestined...

Once we are in salvation, we remain there by His grace alone.

We do not retain salvation by works.

 

[Hammster]

Oh, please, please, pretty please with a cherry on top?

Just use your free will to believe, for one week, that Calvinism is true.

 

[Carl Emerson]

That's a very narrow definition of free will that you just invented.

Please - that is the dictionary definition - you can google it yourself.