If you are Calvinist

[Carl Emerson]

actions obviously follow choices

No - you can choose to do something and be prevented...

 

[Carl Emerson]

God often Destined us to sin instead

Pardon ???

When did I say that ???

 

[Carl Emerson]

Friend - Clearly you have not carefully read and understood my post or you would not wildly misrepresent what I said.

 

[Hammster]

Pardon ???

When did I say that ???

The thing is, his previous sentences confirm that he knows that God ordains sinful actions. If He allows it, He has a purpose.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The thing is, his previous sentences confirm that he knows that God ordains sinful actions. If He allows it, He has a purpose.

Ordaining and allowing are two very different things...

Sure we know that all things work together for good but that does not mean He authors evil.

Agree ??

 

[Hammster]

Ordaining and allowing are two very different things...

Sure we know that all things work together for good but that does not mean He authors evil.

Agree ??

Agreed.

 

[Hammster]

He either is in control of everything, or nothing.

 

[renniks]

Just use your free will to believe, for one week, that Calvinism is true.

Already did that. Are you trying to say belief isn't a choice?

 

[renniks]

He either is in control of everything, or nothing.

God is controlling my and yours and everyone's evil actions? Nope, God says he hates evil actions.

 

[Hammster]

Already did that. Are you trying to say belief isn't a choice?

When?

 

[Hammster]

God is controlling my and yours and everyone's evil actions? Nope, God says he hates evil actions.

I didn’t say controlling. I said in control.

 

[renniks]

When?

Back when I went to a Calvinist church. I didn't know what it was called per say, but tried to balance the idea of Gods sovereignty being all controlling with freewill. Didn't last but it's not impossible to just choose to believe this contradiction is unexplainable and leave it a mystery.

 

[Hammster]

Back when I went to a Calvinist church. I didn't know what it was called per say, but tried to balance the idea of Gods sovereignty being all controlling with freewill. Didn't last but it's not impossible to just choose to believe this contradiction is unexplainable and leave it a mystery.

I mean choose it right now and believe it for a whole week.

 

[renniks]

I mean choose it right now and believe it for a whole week.

Why?

 

[renniks]

Then he isn't in full control because that equals controlling everything. In fact this is one of the basics of calvinism that God is actively controlling everything, down to the smallest atom or particle.

 

[Hammster]

Why?

However, if you’d like me to give you incontrovertible proof that you cannot just choose to believe what you want, let me know.

Forgot already?

 

[Hammster]

Then he isn't in full control because that equals controlling everything. In fact this is one of the basics of calvinism that God is actively controlling everything, down to the smallest atom or particle.

Just because that’s how you’ve found to see it doesn’t make it so.

 

[renniks]

Forgot already?

How does this relate to the subject? Are you trying to say that God causes me to disbelieve in Calvinism? No one is saying we can just choose to believe anything at any time. That's a strawman. However, we are all presented with clear choices are various points in our lives and we choose. And it's not always choosing the one good option. There may be several good job options for example. I can see nothing in scripture that says God in any way fixes those choices beforehand.
In regard to Calvinism, yes, once I understood it, I was presented with a clear choice to go forward and embrace it, despite it's more distasteful portions or to see what other options were available. The Crux of the matter came down to searching for what scripture said. But certainly, there was a point where I could have gone either way and had to make a free-will decision.

 

[Hammster]

How does this relate to the subject? Are you trying to say that God causes me to disbelieve in Calvinism? No one is saying we can just choose to believe anything at any time. That's a strawman. However, we are all presented with clear choices are various points in our lives and we choose. And it's not always choosing the one good option. There may be several good job options for example. I can see nothing in scripture that says God in any way fixes those choices beforehand.
In regard to Calvinism, yes, once I understood it, I was presented with a clear choice to go forward and embrace it, despite it's more distasteful portions or to see what other options were available. The Crux of the matter came down to searching for what scripture said. But certainly, there was a point where I could have gone either way and had to make a free-will decision.

Are you now saying that you can’t just choose to believe what you want, when you want to? That’s what it sounds like.