If you are Calvinist

[Hammster]

Only if the drawing is irresistible, which is not confirmed by scripture.

That would depend on what’s meant by drawing and irresistible.

 

[Hammster]

Lol, you can't have real choices if there's no free will. You might have the illusion of choice.

I guess I’ll need to post scripture.


What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
— Romans 6:15-18



lol

 

[renniks]

I guess I’ll need to post scripture.


What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
— Romans 6:15-18



lol

Thanks for confirming what I said with scripture. I have the freedom to present myself either to God or Satan at any given moment. I have the freedom to be obedient to one or the other. I make the choice of who I will serve. That's free will.

 

[Hammster]

Thanks for confirming what I said with scripture. I have the freedom to present myself either to God or Satan at any given moment. I have the freedom to be obedient to one or the other. I make the choice of who I will serve. That's free will.

No, you don’t. You are a slave to one or the other. That’s the nature of slavery.

 

[renniks]

No, you don’t. You are a slave to one or the other. That’s the nature of slavery.

Well I guess you don't believe Paul when he says we are slaves to who we choose to be slaves to.

 

[Hammster]

Well I guess you don't believe Paul when he says we are slaves to who we choose to be slaves to.

I do believe Paul when he says that although I was a slave to sin, I am no longer. I will only speak for myself, though.

I also believe this:


And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
— Ephesians 2:1-3

 

[renniks]

I do believe Paul when he says that although I was a slave to sin, I am no longer. I will only speak for myself, though.

I also believe this:


And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
— Ephesians 2:1-3

Walking is an action verb. Can we not choose how to walk and what to walk in? Obviously, or Paul would not be admonishing them to walk in the spirit instead of The flesh.

 

[Hammster]

Walking is an action verb. Can we not choose how to walk and what to walk in? Obviously, or Paul would not be admonishing them to walk in the spirit instead of The flesh.

Those in Christ definitely can.

 

[renniks]

Those in Christ definitely can.

Lol, it's amusing how Calvinists constantly confirm free will while arguing against it.

 

[MDC]

There can be no rebellion if God predestines everything that I do. If I curse him to his face, it's only ultimately because he decreed me to do just that.

Romans 9:19-23. And you will definitely be held accountable for your sin and action of cursing Him to His face

 

[Hammster]

Lol, it's amusing how Calvinists constantly confirm free will while arguing against it.

Why are you being disingenuous? Seriously. Why?

 

[renniks]

Romans 9:19-23. And you will definitely be held accountable for your sin and action of cursing Him to His face

Lol, you should read the whole of Romans sometime instead of just part of one chapter.

How can I sin if God decreed my actions? Wouldn't that be actually God sinning?

 

[renniks]

Why are you being disingenuous? Seriously. Why?

Can I obey or not? Not if I have no will of my own.

 

[MDC]

Lol, you should read the whole of Romans sometime instead of just part of one chapter.

How can I sin if God decreed my actions? Wouldn't that be actually God sinning?

Those scriptures speak of you and your anticipation of such a rebellious question. God decreed all that comes to pass even your rebellious attitude towards His truths but yet you will be held accountable for your sin

 

[Hammster]

Can I obey or not? Not if I have no will of my own.

Apparently you have the ability to lie about me. You might want to check your motivation behind that.

 

[renniks]

Those scriptures speak of you and your anticipation of such a rebellious question. God decreed all that comes to pass even your rebellious attitude towards His truths but yet you will be held accountable for your sin

That's absurd and unbiblical. God says he holds his hands out all day to a rebellious people. Obviously, he didn't decree their rebellion.
And you sadly misunderstand Romans.

 

[renniks]

Apparently you have the ability to lie about me. You might want to check your motivation behind that.

What lie is that? And did God not decree every letter I wrote?

 

[Hammster]

What lie is that? And did God not decree every letter I wrote?

Lol, it's amusing how Calvinists constantly confirm free will while arguing against it.

And yes, sometimes God has a reason for evil. See Genesis 50:20.

 

[MDC]

That's absurd and unbiblical. God says he holds his hands out all day to a rebellious people. Obviously, he didn't decree their rebellion.
And you sadly misunderstand Romans.

The absurdity is in your question. It is why Paul anticipates such a response

 

[renniks]

Paul wasn't even on this subject. You know that the objector was basically a Calvinist, right? And when he asks who can resist God's will, Paul says he is talking back to God. Think about that. How can I talk back to God if he decreed my talking back? See why I say that this theological determinism is absurd?

The absurdity is in your question. It is why Paul anticipates such a response