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If we are sinning willfully after we receive, there remains no more sacrifice for sins

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by HIM, Apr 10, 2021.

  1. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

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    I'm guessing you're out to combat easy believism cheap grace watered down gospel carnal Christians who think they have a license to sin. While readers (who aren't like that) think you're saying sinless perfection is required for salvation, which is what they argue against, while you figure they're arguing that it's okay to sin.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
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  2. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    Well according to some of the issues presented in the text:

    1) warning about NT Hebrew Christian brother unbelief (Hebrews 3:12, 19, 4:2)
    2) warning about the Sabbath (why would NT Hebrews be warned about the Sabbath?),
    3) warning based on failure to enter Canaan,
    4) five warnings against apostasy and turning back (Hebrews 4:11, 1, 3:12),

    the issue was apostasy, returning to Judaism, indicated by the whole book's defense of the superiority of the New Covenant over the Old Covenant in the superiority of Jesus over Moses and the angels as Mediator, over the Aaronic priesthood as High Priest, of a better sanctuary and a better sacrifice.

    NT Hebrew Christian "holy brothers" (3:1) running back up to the Temple as though they had never heard of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is preposterous on its face, typical of Jewish gloss.

    For a fuller presentation of where this issue is presented in the letter, see
    post #1259, Removing the laws of God- what does it really mean?
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
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  3. BrotherJJ

    BrotherJJ Active Member

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    Actually the new sin administration covenant context begins in chapter 7 continues in 8, 9 & 10.

    Mark 14:24 And He said to them, “This is My blood of the [new] covenant, [My blood] which is being poured out for many [for the forgiveness of sins]

    Luke 22:20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup, which is poured out for you, is the new covenant [ratified] in My blood.
    (MY NOTE: Jesus sin atoning payment began a new covenant replacing the old. Christ's resurrection is proof God accepted Christ's sin payment)

    Heb 7:
    11 Now if perfection [a perfect fellowship between God and the worshiper] had been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people were given the Law) what further need was there for another and different kind of priest to arise, one in the manner of Melchizedek, rather than one appointed to the order of Aaron?
    (MY NOTE: Jesus retired the Mosaic covenant here: Matt 27:51)

    12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is of necessity a change of the law as well.

    17 For it is attested [by God] of Him, “You (Christ) are a Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.”

    21 (for those Levites who formerly became priests [received their office] without [its being confirmed by the taking of] an oath, but this One [was designated] with an oath through the One who said to Him, “The Lord has sworn And will not change His mind or regret it, ‘You (Christ) are a Priest forever’”).
    (MY NOTE: The Levitical priesthood RETIRED/REPLACED/NOW OBSOLETE)

    22 And so [because of the oath’s greater strength and force] Jesus has become the certain guarantee of a better covenant [a more excellent and more advantageous agreement; one that will never be replaced or annulled].
    (MY NOTE: Jesus is NOW! High Priest (mediator between God & man) forever! He administers a New Better sin administration & a Better law covenant. (Reread vs 12 above)

    Heb 8:6 - But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
    (MY NOTE: Jesus has ALREAD obtained & NOW mediates a New BETTER covenant (then Mosaic) Jesus Melchizedek Priesthood covenant is established upon BETTER promises.)

    I believe it's time to place the Mosaic covenant on the ash pile of history where Jesus death & resurrection retired it to:

    Matt 27:51 And [at once] the veil [of the Holy of Holies] of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; the earth shook and the rocks were split apart.
    (MY NOTE: Jesus death tears Temple veil (this veil separated Holy God's presents from sinful man) is torn in 1/2. Next, the New ETERNAL Melchizedek Priesthood covenant begins in resurrection power 3 days later. It's 1st implementation is seen here:

    Acts 2:4 And they were all filled [that is, diffused throughout their being] with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues (different languages), as the Spirit was giving them the ability to speak out [clearly and appropriately].

    The Holy Spirit of God indwelt believers = New Melchizedek Priesthood Covenant. God's presents no longer dwells (nor ever again will) in a Tabernacle or Temple (Mosaic covenant) inner sanctuary/Holy of Holies, made with human hands.)

    Every REDEEMED believers is NOW a Temple where a Holy God's Spirit forever indwells. Once indwelt/baptized with Christ's Holy Spirit. The believers eternal fate is securely SEALED (Eph 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22, 5:5, 2 Tim 1:14, Jn 10:28-29, Rom 8:35-39) Amen
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
  4. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    Yes, Heb 10:26-31. It never ceases to amaze me how some have failed to understand the gospel and have managed to corrupt it. Faith, and the New Covenant, were never intended to serve as a license to escape or be free from our obligation to fulfill the law, the moral law, the ten commandments as outlined and supported by Jesus and Paul, along with all the ancient churches. Instead faith upholds the law by finally giving us the authentic means to fulfill it, the right way, in the communion with God that reconciliation brings us through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Man is made for communion with God and is lost, dead, sick, and disordered- and unable to maintain moral integrity- without Him. "Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5

    "If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume all adversaries. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think one deserves to be punished who has trampled on the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge His people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."
    Heb 10:26-31

    Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
    Rom 8:12-13

    We can only do this by being under grace, with God, not under the law, on our own. The new covenant promises:
    “I will put my law in their minds
    and write it on their hearts.
    I will be their God,
    and they will be my people.
    No longer will they teach their neighbor,
    or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
    because they will all know me,
    from the least of them to the greatest,”
    declares the Lord."
    Jer 31:33-34

    To the extent that we persist in sin, especially grave, serious sin, we prove that we're not really with God, we don't really know Him.
    Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him. 1 John 3:4-6
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
  5. Daughter of the Creator

    Daughter of the Creator New Member

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    Thank you! I am new to blogging forums. But I followed your link and put my testimony is "how has God honored you" thread. Thank you again. Blessings Friend. :)
     
  6. HIM

    HIM Friend

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    We should spend less time guessing and thinking what we think others are figuring and actual address the text shared and the facts shared about them
     
  7. HIM

    HIM Friend

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    Wonderful! I will check it out when I have a free moment. May the Lord continue to bless us in All his Way; Jesus Christ
     
  8. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    I have never encountered a church denomination that teaches that Christians have a license to sin. I have no idea what you are talking about. In my experience, in every church I have attended, they seem to have an obsession with pointing out the sin of others. I rarely hear too much about loving others as Christ loved us.

    If you can tell me the name of a church that teaches that we can sin as Christians. I would appreciate that. The holiness movement appears to be the only church denomination on this planet.
    We are all sinners and should never notice the speck in our brother's eye. Apparently every church out there today is populated by lumberjacks.

    1 Timothy 1:5
    But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

    Ephesians 1:15
    For this reason I too, having heard of the faith in the Lord Jesus which exists among you and your love for all the saints.

    Ephesians 3:17
    So that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love.
     
  9. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

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    The complaint I come across is churches that teach all your future sins are forgiven in advance, and don't say anything about confessing sins (and even discourage it) and don't say anything about repentance etc. Mega-church guys like Joel Osteen and Rick Warren seem to be accused of this a lot. Then there's the get rich though God prosperity movement. Kenneth Copland is a name that comes up a lot with that. Several more names all around I'm sure. On the other hand there are pastors who try to combat that and go too far in the other direction by emphasizing works over grace.

    And in all of that as you say is a shortage of talking about loving others.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
  10. HIM

    HIM Friend

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    Never stated anything different. The issue is you said in respect to what the sinning willfully is in Heb 10:26, "Hebrews chapter 10 in context: Who is the speaker/writer talking to? = Jews adhering to the old Levitical sacrifices offered under the old Mosaic covenant".

    That is an issue because that is not stated or even implied any where in the letter. Sinning willfully is just that, sinning willfully. It could include reverting back to the old system and ignoring Jesus' gift but it is not inclusive to just that. Sinning willfully includes any sin in a lifestyle which one would be sinning willfully.
     
  11. FutureAndAHope

    FutureAndAHope Just me Supporter

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    You must be very careful with the way you are presenting this doctrine. For you are blocking many people who may have fallen into sin from returning to relationship, and fellowship with God.

    Firstly, the bible tells us:

    1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

    So here we see John, saying "we should not sin, but if we fall into it Jesus remains our advocate (willing to forgive)".

    You have to understand the cross, the cross covers all sin from the day we were born to the day we die.

    Heb 9:27-28 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;

    See the timeline:

    BORN ------------------- DIE ONCE
    CHRIST ----------------- OFFERED ONCE

    BORN ----sins covered ------ DIE ONCE

    The verse:

    Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

    We see above the sacrifice for sins spans our lifetime, and Christ is our forgiving advocate. Hebrews 10:26 sin wilfully, does not mean a one-off act of willful sin, it is a choice to enter a lifestyle controlled by willful sin, i.e. ultimate and final rejection of God, and His sacrifice.

    By sticking hard to your "one-off", willful sin doctrine, you are denying Christians who may have fallen into sin from repenting. You are sending to hell (if such a thing were indeed possible), people who Christ has died for and redeemed.

    The truth is there is a battle between the flesh, and the Spirit, the Spirit does not automatically give us power over all our sins, we must abide in the vine to be fruitful. As Jesus said "pray that you enter not into temptation, for the Spirit is willing and the flesh weak". A Christian who does not spend time with Christ, will become weak and prone to enter their sinful nature. The devil's plan is to keep as many people as possible away from that relationship. Honestly, I believe that your doctrine, if I understand it correctly, is indeed a doctrine that keeps people from a relationship with Christ.

    The scripture tells us "be careful how you hear" ... for every doctrine we make has consequences.
     
  12. HIM

    HIM Friend

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    Sinning willfully not sin willfully.
    We have to go the day is before us.
    Will respond more at a later time if God permits'
    May the Lord our God continue to bless in all His Way; Jesus Christ
     
  13. Jesusfann777888

    Jesusfann777888 Member

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    Out of context.

    It state's there remains no sacrifice for sin if after you have received the knowledge of the Truth or does not lead to repentance. Your listening to a demon twisting the Scripture to scare you. In the context your putting it in the verse doesn't even make sense nor could it Contextually apply to the following verses.
     
  14. fhansen

    fhansen Oldbie

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    The question will always involve whether or not sin can keep us from seeing God. And, if so, does a truly contrite and repentant heart change that situation? And the answer, that the ancient churches carried forward as far as we can know, is that adamant persistence in gravely serious and harmful sin, "sin that leads to death", constitutes a turning away from God, while opposing and destroying faith, hope, and especially, love in us, and yet can most certainly be forgiven with metanoia, restoring one to life/fellowship with Him. The idea that sin no longer has consequences for believers, let alone the consequence of death, is satanic. We're no longer condemned because we've now been translated from the slavery of sin to newness of life as we turn to God in faith and enter relationship with Him. And then, we must remain in Him.
    "Apart from Me you can do nothing." John 15:5
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  15. HIM

    HIM Friend

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    Prove what you say in the context of the scripture given and Hebrews chapter 10 and I will recant
     
  16. Jesusfann777888

    Jesusfann777888 Member

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    I told you to Read it. You can prove it to yourself by reading it and associating it with it's apparent context. Don't tell me what to do.
     
  17. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    That is not warranted from the text.

    Hebrews deals with unbelief, falling away, turning back--all relating to the gospel, not to OT sacrifices, and all resulting in no sacrifice remaining for the forgiveness of their sin and right standing with God's justice, which means condemnation for them.

     
  18. FutureAndAHope

    FutureAndAHope Just me Supporter

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    The sacrifice that Christ made was for all sin from the time we were born to the time we die.

    Heb 9:27-28 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many;

    Take Hebrews 6 as an example, where it talks of no repentance, it says the person detailed in that passage is "re-crucifying Christ". But we see from Hebrews 27-28 That the sacrifice spans a lifetime. The only way for the sacrifice to be unavailable is for a person to die in their sins.

    Hebrews when talking of willful sin is not referring to an act of sin, but rather a return to a lifestyle of sin, from which one does not repent. While a person seeks repentance it is available.

    The OT law is being used to show how a Christian should be treated, and it says:

    Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

    Yet let's look at the OT law, David, plotted the murder of a man, so he could cover up his sin of adultery, did God have him killed, no. The sin was very willful, it was not an accident. If we are using the OT law as a shadow of Christ's law let's use it wisely.

    Mat 18:21-22 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

    1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

    The doctrine that you are espousing, "one sin end's it all", is a trap set by Satan. Think about it for a minute, were you to fall into sin, you would think you could not ask for forgiveness, and would walk away from God. Not only that it makes it hard for Christians who have fallen to return to God.
     
  19. Clare73

    Clare73 Blood-bought

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    That sacrifice benefits only those who believe in the person and work of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sin and right standing with God's justice; i.e., "not guilty."
    I think maybe you are not understanding me.

    There is "one sin that ends it all," to permanently turn away from the gospel and Jesus Christ whom you once accepted, which is apostasy, and to remain in that apostasy.

    In rejecting Jesus Christ, you are without atonement for sin, and under God's justice on that sin, which is eternal death.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2021
  20. Jesusfann777888

    Jesusfann777888 Member

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    That's if you don't care about the truth. Logically apostates don't disagree with what's true, they simply base everything on a false doctrine denying the truth. I don't think a Christian in the Context of Election could become an apostates. it undermines being written in the book of Life.
     
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