If we are sinning willfully after we receive, there remains no more sacrifice for sins

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I know, because I was very disturbed by this passage when I was a new believer (as much as I was by Matthew 7:21-23, and even more than I was by Hebrews 6:4-6).

Unfortunately, the historical context alone did almost nothing to calm my fears concerning those verses because, as much as I would have liked to have been able to do so, dismissing the verses, as if they were true for certain Christians (on the one hand), but not true for me somehow (on the other), didn't make sense or seem like it could possibly be true to me.

That said, when I finally understood what those passages were 'actually' saying, and who they were actually written about, I realized that I had no reason to fear or despair any longer because of them :)

Why would anyone tell a Christian who is in despair that they are w/o hope because of some sin that they are struggling with :scratch: That said, Hebrews 10:26-27 is hardly concerned with just any sin, is it! Instead, its exclusive concern is with those whose continually reject Jesus Christ and refuse to accept Him as their Lord and Savior (even though they know and understand the truth about who He really is).

So, the folks being discussed in v26-27 are not Christians struggling in despair, rather, they are non-Christians who do not care :preach:


Should we stroke the despair :scratch: My answer would be, "of course not", but that doesn't seem like a question that requires an answer!

If a Christian is in despair because of a sin that they are struggling with, and this passage is making things worse for them (due to their misunderstanding about what it actually teaches), I still believe that what needs to be done (first and foremost) is to help them come to an understanding of the truth (about why true believers 'never' need to despair over sin, even if a passage like Hebrews 10 is before them, rather, they simply need to confess it .. 1 John 1:9, over and over again, as needed .. cf Matthew 18:21-22).

I would tell them that it is a good thing that they are worried about their sin and want to repent of it, because that's what true Christians do whenever we realize that we've sinned. I think I would also explain that when we sinned as non-believers, we did so ~according~ to our fallen nature, but whenever we sin now, as believers, we are acting ~against~ our new nature instead, so sinning is never comfortable or fun for us (like it was prior to coming to saving faith). So again, helping them to understand that being upset/contrite over their sin, and then confessing it and seeking to be forgiven of it because they are, is one of the signs that tells us that we are who we claim and believe ourselves to be :oldthumbsup: As pastor/theologian Arthur W. Pink once said,

"It is not the absence of sin, but the grieving over it, which distinguishes the child of God from empty professors."

As for the worry that they are experiencing because of their misunderstanding of Hebrews 10:26-27, I would make sure that they understand that this passage has nothing to do with Christians like them, not because of its historical context, but instead, because v26-27 is referring ~specifically~ to those who (unlike them) reject/refuse to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior (which means that this passage could not be talking about Christians). That's where I'd start anyway :)

Yikes, it's late here. This is going to make for an interesting Sunday morning .. :sorry: :yawn: :sleep:

God bless you!

--David

I agree with what you're saying in that no one would despair over this passage who really cares. Those who don't care, just don't care. So, when someone despairs on account of this passage that definitely needs to be pointed out.

But, I disagree that it need not be pointed out that this passage was written for specific people in a specific situation, i.e. 1st Jewish Christians who were still relying on the temple sacrifice. That is exactly what allowed me to let go of the despair related to this passage.

So, I guess we'll just have to disagree on that point and thank God neither of us are in despair. :)
 
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HIM

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Depends which 'commandments' the apostles are referring too.

1 John 2:3
By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.

1 John 3:23
This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

The commandments that John is referring to are definitely not the ten commandments.

The law only grants the knowledge of sin. The law, the ten commandments, cannot save anyone.

The commandment to believe in the name of Jesus Christ is the commandment that must be kept.
Amen, Believe to the name, to the authority of Jesus Christ and we shall be saved.
And through that commandment the rest are kept. If not we are not.
 
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HIM

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What do you think sinning willfully means?
Sinning voluntarily after receiving the knowledge of the truth.
What would be the knowledge of the truth that would make this sinning willfully so grievous? The promise of the New Covenant. God's Laws in the heart and mind, The word in our heart and mouth. A new Spirit, Christ in us the hope of glory. God working in us both to will and do His Good pleasure. We are now one as They are one. Christ in us and we in Him that the world might believe.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Sinning voluntarily after receiving the knowledge of the truth.
What would be the knowledge of the truth that would make this sinning willfully so grievous? The promise of the New Covenant. God's Laws in the heart and mind, The word in our heart and mouth. A new Spirit, Christ in us the hope of glory. God working in us both to will and do His Good pleasure. We are now one as They are one. Christ in us and we in Him that the world might believe.

Paul says in Romans 7:19-25

19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
 
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AubreyM

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Do people ever stop sinning even after being in connection with God and the Lord Jesus Christ?

Can we be perfect like Jesus Christ perfect?

Also there are people out there in this day in age, who refuse God, and the Lord Jesus Christ or read the bible, and refuse to have love towards other and if they are not part of their own fold they are looked at as not Christian because they may not follow their own traditions and ways.

Seems to me we can have a lot of things liquify, but they never go away truly.

God is a consuming fire, and consume our ways that we use to walk in by turning and walking towards Him, into the light rather than away into the darkness being blind, and not being able to see.

Do we ever become perfect as far as never sinning again? It's a no from me. Do not believe we ever become perfect, and to fight for that is meaningless. We are all imperfect, and it was why need the Lord Jesus Christ.

Will God deal with by the spirit when you sin in the motions that are defrauding towards God, and or defrauding towards a neighbor. Would assume yes, he will deal with that person one on one.

The only thing to do is to encourage and build up faith for those who are weak or ununderstanding.

The only other sin left around is unbelief in regards to God, and the Lord Jesus Christ and that is a position where you have no help from God because of willful rejection. Though He is still here.

Maybe this scripture can we can see why it is that way:

Mark 4: 18 Others are like the seeds sown among the thorns. They hear the word, 19 but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth, and the desire for other things come in and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
 
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HIM

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Hey Brian (@MMXX), I hope that you and @HIM don't mind me jumping in here, but it seems to me that "sinning willfully" involves knowing that what you are about to do is sinful, but choosing to commit the sin anyway. This type of sin also involves someone, "thumbing their nose at God", to one degree or another anyway. Perhaps it could be referred to as a "premeditated" sin?

--David
Not at all David.

As was stated to Brian in regards to his question, Sinning willfully is Sinning voluntarily. But the admonition in relation to this is after receiving the knowledge of the truth.
What would be the knowledge of the truth that would make this sinning willfully so grievous? The promise of the New Covenant. God's Laws in the heart and mind, The word in our heart and mouth. A new Spirit, Christ in us the hope of glory. God working in us both to will and do His Good pleasure. We are now one as They are one. Christ in us and we in Him that the world might believe.

I believe that the "we" in v26 is a far more generalized "we" than the "we" that is found in v39. One has the sense of being inclusive (of all in the church) .. v26, while the other is exclusive (of believers/believers to be), alone .. v39. I believe that the context (even of v39 alone) bears this out nicely for us as it literally means, "~we~ are not of shrinking back .. but of faith"), though I admit (as you did earlier) to not being absolutely certain about what is meant, so I keep an open mind and continue in "learning mode" throughout several portions of this Book!
Here is something for your consideration. The "we" in verse 26 is in the 1st person plural which would include the writer, the "us" and the "ourselves" mentioned in the exhortations prior to the admonition mentioned in 26-31.

Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised.
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Then after the admonition not to fall into sin again he ends with an exhortation in an affirmation to their faith. Ending with another "we" in verse 39. Stating, We are not of them who shrink back into destruction, But we are those of faith who believe into the saving of the soul. For the Just, the righteous shall live out of faith into the saving of the soul.

Heb 10:32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;
Heb 10:33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.
Heb 10:34 For ye had compassion of me in my bonds, and took joyfully the spoiling of your goods, knowing in yourselves that ye have in heaven a better and an enduring substance.
Heb 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
Heb 10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
 
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HIM

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Paul says in Romans 7:19-25

19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
Do people ever stop sinning even after being in connection with God and the Lord Jesus Christ?

Can we be perfect like Jesus Christ perfect?

Also there are people out there in this day in age, who refuse God, and the Lord Jesus Christ or read the bible, and refuse to have love towards other and if they are not part of their own fold they are looked at as not Christian because they may not follow their own traditions and ways.

Seems to me we can have a lot of things liquify, but they never go away truly.

God is a consuming fire, and consume our ways that we use to walk in by turning and walking towards Him, into the light rather than away into the darkness being blind, and not being able to see.

Do we ever become perfect as far as never sinning again? It's a no from me. Do not believe we ever become perfect, and to fight for that is meaningless. We are all imperfect, and it was why need the Lord Jesus Christ.

Will God deal with by the spirit when you sin in the motions that are defrauding towards God, and or defrauding towards a neighbor. Would assume yes, he will deal with that person one on one.

The only thing to do is to encourage and build up faith for those who are weak or ununderstanding.

The only other sin left around is unbelief in regards to God, and the Lord Jesus Christ and that is a position where you have no help from God because of willful rejection. Though He is still here.

Maybe this scripture can we can see why it is that way:

Mark 4: 18 Others are like the seeds sown among the thorns. They hear the word, 19 but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth, and the desire for other things come in and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
Paul says He finds a law in verse 21. He says that this law is ANOTHER law in verse 23 and that this law is that when he would do Good, evil is present with him. He says that He delights after the Law of God after (down in) the inner man, but this other law that he finds wars against the Law in his mind, his intellect. He then begins to call this other Law, the law of sin in verse 23 and says he is in captivity to it. It has become part of him, it is in his members. Remember Our Savior's words in John 8:34? He said "He that committeth sin is a servant to it." Paul in recognizing this then cries out, "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"

So we now have two things. We have the other law, the law of sin warring against the Law of God in His mind. And due to the captivity, the fact that we have no way of escape in and of ourselves we have the end result which is death. So we have the law of sin AND death. For the wages of sin is death, as was said earlier in chapter 6 verse 23.

Then he makes a contrast between these to Laws. He thanks God that in His mind, his intellect he is serving the Law of God, but sadly with his flesh the other law that he found, the law of sin which he is captivity to. For he that commits sin becomes a slave to it and suffers the end result which is death.

But he does not stop there in hopelessness. He continues and says there is therefore no condemnation to them whom are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made us free from the law of sin and death in which are in captivity to due to the nature of sin. For he that commits sin is a slave to it. But As Jesus said if the Son shall make you free, free we are indeed.

Paul affirms this as he continues in that he gives the reason why we have made free from the Law of sin and death. He says the law, a knowledge of it is weak in the flesh, because of the nature of sin and the power of it over us, therefore God sent His Son and condemn sin in the flesh, that the righteousness of the law be fulfilled in us. This being said in the same context as chapter six. There he states in verse 6 and 7, For we now Know this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Praise be to Jesus! Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. 1Pet 2:24,25



Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.


Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
 
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BrotherJJ

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We are new creation in Christ. His word, His Law being in our hearts. But those who are without or who ignore the gift shall die in their sins. For the wages of sin is death, and if we are sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin, but certain fearful looking forward to judgment and fiery indignation which shall destroy the adversary. He who despised Moses' Law died under two or three witnesses. Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. But the just live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition (destruction); but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Hebrews chapter 10 in context: Who is the speaker/writer talking to? = Jews adhering to the old Levitical sacrifices offered under the old Mosaic covenant

What is the speaker/writer talking about? A new BETTER Melchizedek covenant with a BETTER sacrificial sin management system

Christ New Covenant is BETTER: Better than Moses, because Christ created Him. Better then the Aaronic priesthood, because Christ's sin sacrifice is ONCE FOR ALL TIME. Better then the Mosaic law, because Christ mediates a better covenant.

1 Cor 10:
2 And all [of them] were baptized into Moses [into his safekeeping as their leader] in the cloud and in the sea;
(MY NOTE: Under the Old Mosaic covenant All were baptized into Moses)

3 and all [of them] ate the same [a]spiritual food; 4 and all [of them] drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ.
(MY NOTE: They ALL ate the heavenly given manna & drank from the Rock in the wilderness of Sinai.)

New covenant believers are baptized in the Name that carries ALL authority. New covenant believers eat the true Bread of Life (Jn 6:51) & drink from the true Living Water (Jn 4:13-14).

Heb 10:
1 For the "law having a shadow" of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those "sacrifices" which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
(MY NOTE: Mosaic Levitical sacrifices were foreshadows of Christ's coming BETTER/perfect Melchizedek "Once for All Time" sin sacrifice management system)

4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
(MY NOTE: Mosaic law sacrifices only cover sin & DIDN'T provide remission = pardon. After Jesus perfect Once for All Time sacrifice complete forgives/pardon & removes All sins = Past-Present-Future)

8 Above when he said, "Sacrifice" and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
(MY NOTE: Mosaic law sacrifices, that covered only, did not completely please/satisfy heavens required wage for sin)

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
(MY NOTE: The 1st = Mosaic law, the 2nd = Order of Melchizedek. Established upon a sinless Christ's BETTER sin payment & resurrection)

10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
(MY NOTE: Christ Once for All Time sin sacrifice, sanctifies every believer. Mosaic law couldn't do that Rom 8:3-4)

11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same "sacrifices", which can never take away sins:
(MY NOTE: ALL the Mosaic law sacrifices (millions?) Only covered & didn't provide sin remission/pardon/removal)

12 But this man, after he had offered one "sacrifice for sins" for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
(MY NOTE: Christ's One Time (Sinless God Blood) payment satisfied heavens required sin payment & takes away/removes ALL the believers sin. (Jn 1:29) not just pre-conversion sins)

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
(MY NOTE: Christ's sinless/perfect God Blood payment FOREVER sanctifies the believer. Not just, until you sin again)

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
(MY NOTE: Where there is Remission = pardon/total forgiveness. We never need another sin offering beyond faith in Christ's sin payment & resurrection)

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
(MY NOTE: Jesus/God blood sin payment removed the curtain veil (Matt 27:51) that stood between God & sinful man. And now believers can enter into God's presents.)

21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
(MY NOTE: Jesus is our eternal High Priest: Ps 110:4, Heb 2:17, 3:2, 4:14,15, 5:6, 6:20, 7:11,15,23,26,27, 9:12,24)

22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
(MY NOTE: We come/access His righteousness by grace thru faith Rom 3:24, 5:1-2, Acts 15:11, Eph 2:5,8, 2 Tim 1:9)

23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
(MY NOTE: Trust in His faithful obedience & righteousness works, not your own)

24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
(MY NOTE: Love God & your fellow believer)

Now consider the contextual background verses 1-26 (Vs 14 in particular) this chapter = A NEW BETTER SACRIFICE! Onto verse 26:

26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the "knowledge of the truth", there remains no more "sacrifice" for sins,
(MY NOTE: This epistle is written to both believing & unbelieving HEBREWS under the Old Mosaic law covenant. 2ndly: Please reread the chapter context A NEW BETTER SACRIFICIAL SYSTEM. 3rdly: I'd like to remind NT believers (Rom 6:14 (B) You're not under (never were) Mosaic law.)

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(MY NOTE: HEBREWS! Now! that you know/understand about the ultimate sin sacrifice, beware!)

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
(MY NOTE: They understood what the results from breaking God's law were)

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
(MY NOTE: By bring an animal sin sacrifice to the Temple AFTER you know the truth about Jesus ultimate sacrifice. You DENY the Son, the Father, who sent the Son & the Holy Spirit that revealed it to you.)

I would place the one's that chose to deny the Son as the the one's Jesus fortold of in the sowers parable:

Matt 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

Life revolved around the Temple. Stephen had been stoned to death for his faith in Jesus, Saul was rounding up Christ professing believers & many believers scattered/dispersed/ran for their life.

Bottom line, these people were never saved they were seeds that fell onto stony heart.

Question to the OP poster: Have you, or do you know anyone, that has brought an animal sacrifice to a Levitical priest at the Temple?

Perversion of the Gospel
6 I am astonished and extremely irritated that you are so quickly shifting your allegiance and deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different [even contrary] gospel;
(MY NOTE: Many Jews herd the Gospel of Grace. But, soon after when chastised by the Old Covenant law thumpers, went back to old covenant law practices)

7 which is really not another [gospel]; but there are [obviously] some [people masquerading as teachers] who are disturbing and confusing you [with a misleading, counterfeit teaching] and want to distort the gospel of Christ [twisting it into something which it absolutely is not].

8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we [originally] preached to you, let him be condemned to destruction!

9 As we have said before, so I now say again, if anyone is preaching to you a gospel different from that which you received [from us], let him be condemned to destruction!

Placing the old Levitical Sacrificial System in front of the New Melchizedek sacrificial system. Is a perversion that leads to self destruction.
 
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Ceallaigh

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Sinning voluntarily after receiving the knowledge of the truth.
What would be the knowledge of the truth that would make this sinning willfully so grievous? The promise of the New Covenant. God's Laws in the heart and mind, The word in our heart and mouth. A new Spirit, Christ in us the hope of glory. God working in us both to will and do His Good pleasure. We are now one as They are one. Christ in us and we in Him that the world might believe.

Okay so what's your bottom line here? Is this another 'even though you're a Christian you're probably still going to hell because you're not completely free of sin' threads? Where everyone argues against the OP while the OP basically keeps telling everyone (usually cryptically) that they're probably doomed?
 
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Hebrews chapter 10 in context: Who is the speaker/writer talking to? = Jews adhering to the old Levitical sacrifices offered under the old Mosaic covenant
No where is that stated in the text of Hebrews. Please do not add or assume what is not there.
To jump to another letter to prove a text or letter is saying something is not proper exegesis. If we can't show our thoughts or teachings within the context and grammar of said letter than chances are strong we are wrong.
 
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Ceallaigh

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I agree with what you're saying in that no one would despair over this passage who really cares. Those who don't care, just don't care. So, when someone despairs on account of this passage that definitely needs to be pointed out.

But, I disagree that it need not be pointed out that this passage was written for specific people in a specific situation, i.e. 1st Jewish Christians who were still relying on the temple sacrifice. That is exactly what allowed me to let go of the despair related to this passage.

So, I guess we'll just have to disagree on that point and thank God neither of us are in despair. :)

I'm wondering if the idea of this thread is to get us to despair.
 
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HIM

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Okay so what's your bottom line here? Is this another 'even though you're a Christian you're probably still going to hell because you're not completely free of sin' threads? Where everyone argues against the OP wile the OP basically keeps telling everyone they're probably doomed?
Sinning willfully? Voluntarily sinning? Well then there remains no more sacrifice for sins but a certain fearful looking for judgement and fiery indignation which shall destroy the adversaries.

Take on His Repentance if this is the case, for he is faithful and will not suffer us to be tempted above that which we are able to bare but with the temptation give us a away to escape. Confess our sins. He is faithful and just to Forgive, take away our sins and cleanse, purge us from all unrighteousness.

Lord we believe, Help thou our unbelief
 
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We are new creation in Christ. His word, His Law being in our hearts. But those who are without or who ignore the gift shall die in their sins. For the wages of sin is death, and if we are sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sin, but certain fearful looking forward to judgment and fiery indignation which shall destroy the adversary. He who despised Moses' Law died under two or three witnesses. Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. But the just live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition (destruction); but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

I don't know how to work blogging forums too well, however bellow is my story about Married to an Abusive Christian. If you ask me it is a contradiction. True repentance is the only way to save your soul from destructions.
daughterofthecreator12.blogspot.com
 
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Clare73

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Sure, of course. But the reader is not assumed to continue the error engaged. The intended audience is included in the last verse,

"But we are not among those who shrink back and so are lost, but among those who have faith and so are saved."

It's pedagogical. The intended audience is both the ones going to the temple and the ones who will wake up as a result of hearing this read in the community and proper reflection. They all are "we."
At any rate, today- this moment-it's a moot point because there is no temple and no sacrifice. To try and apply this passage outside the intended audience is a grotesque misuse of proper exegesis. It's an interesting historical read, but
there are no Christians attending sacrifice in the temple, today.
Nor were there when the letter was written. That is a preposterous on its face, a Jewish gloss regarding the behavior of Hebrew Christian "holy brothers." (Hebrews 3:1)
 
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public hermit

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Nor were there when the letter was written. That is a preposterous Jewish gloss regarding the behavior of Hebrew Christian "holy brothers." (Hebrews 3:1)

What do you think was the occasion (motivation or Zits Im Leben) of Hebrews?
 
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Ceallaigh

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Sinning willfully? Voluntarily sinning? Well then there remains no more sacrifice for sins but a certain fearful looking for judgement and fiery indignation which shall destroy the adversaries.

Take on His Repentance if this is the case, for he is faithful and will not suffer us to be tempted above that which we are able to bare but with the temptation give us a away to escape. Confess our sins. He is faithful and just to Forgive, take away our sins and cleanse, purge us from all unrighteousness.

Lord we believe, Help thou our unbelief

Well it seems by your title: "If we are sinning willfully after we receive, there remains no more sacrifice for sins", you where saying that it's too late to confess our sins because that ship has sailed, we've used up all the sacrifice that was available.
 
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HIM

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I don't know how to work blogging forums too well, however bellow is my story about Married to an Abusive Christian. If you ask me it is a contradiction. True repentance is the only way to save your soul from destructions.
daughterofthecreator12.blogspot.com
Thanks for sharing. There are forums within the site where you can give your testimony. I would love to here it. Here is a link to one. But there are probably several where your witness would be suited for. Please let me know when and if you do so so I can see it. Testimonies are more powerful than any sermon. https://www.christianforums.com/forums/testimonies.222/
 
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HIM

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Well it seems by your title: "If we are sinning willfully after we receive, there remains no more sacrifice for sins", you where saying that it's too late to confess our sins because that ship has sailed, we've used up all the sacrifice that was available.
No, but if we are sinning willfully that is issue that needs stopped.
The thread was posted to expose the lie that so many continue to spread to explain away what the text, it's grammar and the context so plainly state. The lie would be that the sinning willfully mention is reverting back to the old system and continuing the sacrifices.
 
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BrotherJJ

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No where is that stated in the text of Hebrews. Please do not add or assume what is not there.
To jump to another letter to prove a text or letter is saying something is not proper exegesis. If we can't show our thoughts or teachings within the context and grammar of said letter than chances are strong we are wrong.

Him,
I disagree simply reread scripture posted in my 1st reply.

"BETER SACRIFICE" is the context in the following:
Verse's: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 11, 12.

"New Better Covenant" is the context in:
Verse's: 9, 10, 14, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21.

In 18 of the first 21 verses context is:

"BETTER SACRIFICE or NEW BETTER COVENANT"

Him, you are free to believe & promote your heart. I 've simply done the same in my reply to the OP. Best wishes, JJ.
 
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