If Water Baptism Saves, Then Explain What Happened To Me!

[Thess]

There will be no arguing on this thread. In this thread, we will exercise maturity, respect and honor. The objective of this thread is to learn, including myself, proven by the fact that I have lain before you some of my most grievous of sins. I do this so that we might learn. Let us be respectful to one another as examples for New Christians.

I was baptized at twelve years old. Literally, just minutes after my baptism, after being welcomed by my church into the “body of Christ”, I promptly walked 1.5 blocks down the road and stole a bag of rubber bands from 7-11. My hair was still wet from my water baptism, and I continued to steal as before baptism.

After baptism, my mother wanted me to do something specific, the task I don’t remember (probably wanting me to go to church.) This discussion was in the garage, so I picked up an ax and began swinging it as I walked towards my mother, telling her that she’d better back off because I wasn’t going to stop swinging or moving forward.

Much later in life and suffering from Alcoholism and Cannabis abuse, I attempted to kidnap an adult that robbed me of $70. The plan was to kidnap him from the streets at gunpoint, knifepoint, razorblade point, tying him up in the car, drive him to the top of Snoqualmie Pass (at night), rob HIM, take everything he had including his clothing and kick him out of our car buck naked, in the mountains about twenty miles from home in the freezing cold temperatures.

I was totally addicted to inappropriate content both before and after my marriage. While at the end of my married, I frequented strip clubs, spending an inordinate amount of money that could have been used to get myself some help!

After divorce, I slept with as many as three different women in one week, nearly degrading four women that week.

My alcoholism became so terrible that I could consume the equivalent of 36 cans of Budweiser in a single day. I begged God repeatedly, with tears streaming down my face, that He would heal me, fix me, take this alcoholism away. He refused as I suffered for over two decades with alcohol abuse.

I was so unbelievably difficult that my former wife divorced me, even though I asked three times if there was anything I could do or say to save the marriage. I was so terrible; my former wife didn’t even respond to my pleas.

I didn’t realize it, but I have lived a total life of manipulation. Just about everything about me was so fake and false, and I didn’t even realize it. I was the epitome of a “Wolf in in sheep’s clothing.” But you see, I was BAPTIZED! And we all know that anyone that is baptized is going to heaven, right? So, I wasn’t eternally concerned about my behavior. When ever I read about eternal life, I assumed that I was saved and that reading about Wolves had nothing to do with me. I felt that my baptism protected me from the label of “Wolf” even though I was so much worse than most other “Wolves”.

I believed that once saved, always saved, meaning that all of the sins that I was committing above, I still felt that I was safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. For I, too, also associated water baptism with being saved, meaning that my salvation was always directly linked to getting dunked and wet when I was young.

When I was baptized, the ONLY sin that I mentioned above that I was guilty of, was stealing, swearing etc. So what happened to me? The bible teaches that we will not go on sinning. The Bible talks about turning from sin and sinning no more. It talks about becoming Holy and Righteous. The bible talks about a transformation and learning how to view life in a whole new way (Romans 12:2). When we change and become the best we can be, then we know that we are children of God. Our changed lives prove who we are and where we are eternally headed.

So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

Water Baptism as a saving factor for salvation has turned Christianity into a total mockery! It causes us to believe that we have been saved all throughout our lives, rendering us to say utterly stupid things such as, “Well, just pray about it”, and, “Confidence is from the Lord”, all the while we live in ways like I describe above because we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OBEDIENCE. Terrible! These are two very terrible and destructive doctrines to be used as replacements for actually changing and obeying! Those two phrases above guarantee one thing….”DNC” which means “Do Nothing Christians”.

We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber. We need to STOP being WOLVES! When Jesus, Stephen and the Apostle Paul all said this same thing, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”, that conceptual prayer applies to each of us in this forum. If you are living the way I describe above, then you ARE the Wolf and you most certainly need to wake up from your slumber, for Christ, Stephen and Paul are describing precisely you. I know it's harsh, but I had to wake up and face these facts about myself.

Or, do you think that you were once like me, feeling that I was "lucky" and “special” to know the "truth" which allowed me to sin freely, and that you don’t have to obey and change? I humbly beg anyone who is reading, to check their hearts. It could be the different between eternal life and death. We must obey, we just must....

 

[Monk Brendan]

There will be no arguing on this thread. In this thread, we will exercise maturity, respect and honor. The objective of this thread is to learn, including myself, proven by the fact that I have lain before you some of my most grievous of sins. I do this so that we might learn. Let us be respectful to one another as examples for New Christians.

I was baptized at twelve years old. Literally, just minutes after my baptism, after being welcomed by my church into the “body of Christ”, I promptly walked 1.5 blocks down the road and stole a bag of rubber bands from 7-11. My hair was still wet from my water baptism, and I continued to steal as before baptism.

After baptism, my mother wanted me to do something specific, the task I don’t remember (probably wanting me to go to church.) This discussion was in the garage, so I picked up an ax and began swinging it as I walked towards my mother, telling her that she’d better back off because I wasn’t going to stop swinging or moving forward.

Much later in life and suffering from Alcoholism and Cannabis abuse, I attempted to kidnap an adult that robbed me of $70. The plan was to kidnap him from the streets at gunpoint, knifepoint, razorblade point, tying him up in the car, drive him to the top of Snoqualmie Pass (at night), rob HIM, take everything he had including his clothing and kick him out of our car buck naked, in the mountains about twenty miles from home in the freezing cold temperatures.

I was totally addicted to inappropriate content both before and after my marriage. While at the end of my married, I frequented strip clubs, spending an inordinate amount of money that could have been used to get myself some help!

After divorce, I slept with as many as three different women in one week, and almost had a fourth woman one specific week.

My alcoholism became so terrible that I could consume the equivalent of 36 cans of Budweiser in a single day. I begged God repeatedly, with tears streaming down my face, that He would heal me, fix me, take this alcoholism away. He refused as I suffered for over two decades with alcohol abuse.

I was so unbelievably difficult that my former wife divorced me, even though I asked three times if there was anything I could do or say to save the marriage. I was so terrible; my former wife didn’t even respond to my pleas.

I didn’t realize it, but I have lived a total life of manipulation. Just about everything about me was so fake and false, and I didn’t even realize it. I was the epitome of a “Wolf in in sheep’s clothing.” But you see, I was BAPTIZED! And we all know that anyone that is baptized is going to heaven, so I wasn’t eternally concerned about my behavior. When ever I read about eternal life, I assumed that I was saved and that reading about Wolves had nothing to do with me. I felt that my baptism protected me from the label of “Wolf” even though I was so much worse than most other “Wolves”.

I believed that once saved, always saved, meaning that all of the sins that I was committing above, I still felt that I was safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. For I, too, also associated water baptism with being saved, meaning that my salvation was always directly linked to getting dunked and wet when I was young.

When I was baptized, the ONLY sin that I mentioned above that I was guilty of, was stealing, swearing etc. So what happened to me? The bible teaches that we will not go on sinning. The Bible talks about turning from sin and sinning no more. It talks about becoming Holy and Righteous. The bible talks about a transformation and learning how to view life in a whole new way (Romans 12:2). When we change and become the best we can be, then we know that we are children of God. Our changed lives prove who we are and where we are eternally headed.

So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

Water Baptism as a saving factor for salvation has turned Christianity into a total mockery! It causes us to believe that we have been saved all throughout our lives, rendering us to say utterly stupid things such as, “Well, just pray about it”, and, “Confidence is from the Lord”, all the while we live in ways like I describe above because we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OBEDIENCE. Terrible! These are two very terrible and destructive doctrines to be used as replacements for actually changing and obeying! Those two phrases above guarantee one thing….”DNC” which means “Do Nothing Christians”.

We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber. We need to STOP being WOLVES! When Jesus, Stephen and the Apostle Paul all said this same thing, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”, that conceptual prayer applies to each of us in this forum. If you are living the way I describe above, then you ARE the Wolf and you most certainly need to wake up from your slumber, for Christ, Stephen and Paul are describing precisely you. I know it's harsh, but I had to wake up and face these facts about myself.

Or, do you think that you were once like me, feeling that I was "lucky" and “special” to know the "truth" which allowed me to sin freely, and that you don’t have to obey and change? I humbly beg anyone who is reading, to check their hearts. It could be the different between eternal life and death. We must obey, we just must....

You don't actually think that just because you were saved, you'd never sin again, do you?

 

[Thess]

You don't actually think that just because you were saved, you'd never sin again, do you?

If I answer your question, will that somehow answer my questions?

 

[SeventyOne]

There's never been anyone born again through water baptism. I'm sorry you were involved in a group that lied to you like that.

 

[eleos1954]

There will be no arguing on this thread. In this thread, we will exercise maturity, respect and honor. The objective of this thread is to learn, including myself, proven by the fact that I have lain before you some of my most grievous of sins. I do this so that we might learn. Let us be respectful to one another as examples for New Christians.

I was baptized at twelve years old. Literally, just minutes after my baptism, after being welcomed by my church into the “body of Christ”, I promptly walked 1.5 blocks down the road and stole a bag of rubber bands from 7-11. My hair was still wet from my water baptism, and I continued to steal as before baptism.

After baptism, my mother wanted me to do something specific, the task I don’t remember (probably wanting me to go to church.) This discussion was in the garage, so I picked up an ax and began swinging it as I walked towards my mother, telling her that she’d better back off because I wasn’t going to stop swinging or moving forward.

Much later in life and suffering from Alcoholism and Cannabis abuse, I attempted to kidnap an adult that robbed me of $70. The plan was to kidnap him from the streets at gunpoint, knifepoint, razorblade point, tying him up in the car, drive him to the top of Snoqualmie Pass (at night), rob HIM, take everything he had including his clothing and kick him out of our car buck naked, in the mountains about twenty miles from home in the freezing cold temperatures.

I was totally addicted to inappropriate content both before and after my marriage. While at the end of my married, I frequented strip clubs, spending an inordinate amount of money that could have been used to get myself some help!

After divorce, I slept with as many as three different women in one week, and almost had a fourth woman one specific week.

My alcoholism became so terrible that I could consume the equivalent of 36 cans of Budweiser in a single day. I begged God repeatedly, with tears streaming down my face, that He would heal me, fix me, take this alcoholism away. He refused as I suffered for over two decades with alcohol abuse.

I was so unbelievably difficult that my former wife divorced me, even though I asked three times if there was anything I could do or say to save the marriage. I was so terrible; my former wife didn’t even respond to my pleas.

I didn’t realize it, but I have lived a total life of manipulation. Just about everything about me was so fake and false, and I didn’t even realize it. I was the epitome of a “Wolf in in sheep’s clothing.” But you see, I was BAPTIZED! And we all know that anyone that is baptized is going to heaven, so I wasn’t eternally concerned about my behavior. When ever I read about eternal life, I assumed that I was saved and that reading about Wolves had nothing to do with me. I felt that my baptism protected me from the label of “Wolf” even though I was so much worse than most other “Wolves”.

I believed that once saved, always saved, meaning that all of the sins that I was committing above, I still felt that I was safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. For I, too, also associated water baptism with being saved, meaning that my salvation was always directly linked to getting dunked and wet when I was young.

When I was baptized, the ONLY sin that I mentioned above that I was guilty of, was stealing, swearing etc. So what happened to me? The bible teaches that we will not go on sinning. The Bible talks about turning from sin and sinning no more. It talks about becoming Holy and Righteous. The bible talks about a transformation and learning how to view life in a whole new way (Romans 12:2). When we change and become the best we can be, then we know that we are children of God. Our changed lives prove who we are and where we are eternally headed.

So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

Water Baptism as a saving factor for salvation has turned Christianity into a total mockery! It causes us to believe that we have been saved all throughout our lives, rendering us to say utterly stupid things such as, “Well, just pray about it”, and, “Confidence is from the Lord”, all the while we live in ways like I describe above because we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OBEDIENCE. Terrible! These are two very terrible and destructive doctrines to be used as replacements for actually changing and obeying! Those two phrases above guarantee one thing….”DNC” which means “Do Nothing Christians”.

We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber. We need to STOP being WOLVES! When Jesus, Stephen and the Apostle Paul all said this same thing, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”, that conceptual prayer applies to each of us in this forum. If you are living the way I describe above, then you ARE the Wolf and you most certainly need to wake up from your slumber, for Christ, Stephen and Paul are describing precisely you. I know it's harsh, but I had to wake up and face these facts about myself.

Or, do you think that you were once like me, feeling that I was "lucky" and “special” to know the "truth" which allowed me to sin freely, and that you don’t have to obey and change? I humbly beg anyone who is reading, to check their hearts. It could be the different between eternal life and death. We must obey, we just must....

***

Baptism? Being saved or not saved at Baptism? We are saved by the blood of the Lamb. AMEN Baptism is our outwardly confession of the inwardly confession that we have made and that is our acceptance and acknowledgement our love Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior and through His love for us we are saved.

From your story you did not genuinely accept Jesus, likely due to your age and/or ignorance. Basically you just "got wet."

"Or, do you think that you were once like me, feeling that I was "lucky" and “special” to know the "truth" which allowed me to sin freely, and that you don’t have to obey and change?"

In this case, you are "all wet" ;o)

Romans 6:1-18

1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5 For if we have been united with him in a death like his, we will certainly also be united with him in a resurrection like his. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. 11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13 Do not offer any part of yourself to sin as an instrument of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer every part of yourself to him as an instrument of righteousness. 14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law but under grace? By no means! 16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. 18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

The pattern of teaching is walking in the footsteps of Jesus.

Walk in obedience to all that the Lord your God has commanded you, so that you may live and prosper and prolong your days in the land that you will possess.
Deuteronomy 5:33

Direct my footsteps according to your word;
let no sin rule over me.
Psalm 119:133

The Lord himself goes before you and will be with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged.
Deuteronomy 31:8

May the Lord direct your hearts into God’s love and Christ’s perseverance.
2 Thessalonians 3:5

When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”
John 8:12

It is the Lord your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him.
Deuteronomy 13:4

Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Matthew 10:38

Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Galatians 5:25

Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.”
Mark 8:34

Follow God’s example, therefore, as dearly loved children.
Ephesians 5:1

Blessed are all who fear the Lord,
who walk in obedience to him.
Psalm 128:1

Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.
John 12:26

For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
Ephesians 2:10

To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
John 8:31-32

To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.
1 Peter 2:21

And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
Colossians 3:17

The Lord makes firm the steps
of the one who delights in him.
Psalm 37:23

Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
Matthew 19:21

“By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”
John 13:35

In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
James 2:17

But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.
Joshua 24:15

This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.
John 15:8

I will hasten and not delay
to obey your commands.
Psalm 119:60

Do not turn to the right or the left;
keep your foot from evil.
Proverbs 4:27

Now may the God of peace, who through the blood of the eternal covenant brought back from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great Shepherd of the sheep, equip you with everything good for doing his will, and may he work in us what is pleasing to him, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Hebrews 13:20-21

Follow the Lamb.

I encourage you to study the Word of God that you might know the truth.

God Bless.

 

[Neostarwcc]

There will be no arguing on this thread. In this thread, we will exercise maturity, respect and honor. The objective of this thread is to learn, including myself, proven by the fact that I have lain before you some of my most grievous of sins. I do this so that we might learn. Let us be respectful to one another as examples for New Christians.

I was baptized at twelve years old. Literally, just minutes after my baptism, after being welcomed by my church into the “body of Christ”, I promptly walked 1.5 blocks down the road and stole a bag of rubber bands from 7-11. My hair was still wet from my water baptism, and I continued to steal as before baptism.

After baptism, my mother wanted me to do something specific, the task I don’t remember (probably wanting me to go to church.) This discussion was in the garage, so I picked up an ax and began swinging it as I walked towards my mother, telling her that she’d better back off because I wasn’t going to stop swinging or moving forward.

Much later in life and suffering from Alcoholism and Cannabis abuse, I attempted to kidnap an adult that robbed me of $70. The plan was to kidnap him from the streets at gunpoint, knifepoint, razorblade point, tying him up in the car, drive him to the top of Snoqualmie Pass (at night), rob HIM, take everything he had including his clothing and kick him out of our car buck naked, in the mountains about twenty miles from home in the freezing cold temperatures.

I was totally addicted to inappropriate content both before and after my marriage. While at the end of my married, I frequented strip clubs, spending an inordinate amount of money that could have been used to get myself some help!

After divorce, I slept with as many as three different women in one week, and almost had a fourth woman one specific week.

My alcoholism became so terrible that I could consume the equivalent of 36 cans of Budweiser in a single day. I begged God repeatedly, with tears streaming down my face, that He would heal me, fix me, take this alcoholism away. He refused as I suffered for over two decades with alcohol abuse.

I was so unbelievably difficult that my former wife divorced me, even though I asked three times if there was anything I could do or say to save the marriage. I was so terrible; my former wife didn’t even respond to my pleas.

I didn’t realize it, but I have lived a total life of manipulation. Just about everything about me was so fake and false, and I didn’t even realize it. I was the epitome of a “Wolf in in sheep’s clothing.” But you see, I was BAPTIZED! And we all know that anyone that is baptized is going to heaven, so I wasn’t eternally concerned about my behavior. When ever I read about eternal life, I assumed that I was saved and that reading about Wolves had nothing to do with me. I felt that my baptism protected me from the label of “Wolf” even though I was so much worse than most other “Wolves”.

I believed that once saved, always saved, meaning that all of the sins that I was committing above, I still felt that I was safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. For I, too, also associated water baptism with being saved, meaning that my salvation was always directly linked to getting dunked and wet when I was young.

When I was baptized, the ONLY sin that I mentioned above that I was guilty of, was stealing, swearing etc. So what happened to me? The bible teaches that we will not go on sinning. The Bible talks about turning from sin and sinning no more. It talks about becoming Holy and Righteous. The bible talks about a transformation and learning how to view life in a whole new way (Romans 12:2). When we change and become the best we can be, then we know that we are children of God. Our changed lives prove who we are and where we are eternally headed.

So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

Water Baptism as a saving factor for salvation has turned Christianity into a total mockery! It causes us to believe that we have been saved all throughout our lives, rendering us to say utterly stupid things such as, “Well, just pray about it”, and, “Confidence is from the Lord”, all the while we live in ways like I describe above because we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OBEDIENCE. Terrible! These are two very terrible and destructive doctrines to be used as replacements for actually changing and obeying! Those two phrases above guarantee one thing….”DNC” which means “Do Nothing Christians”.

We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber. We need to STOP being WOLVES! When Jesus, Stephen and the Apostle Paul all said this same thing, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”, that conceptual prayer applies to each of us in this forum. If you are living the way I describe above, then you ARE the Wolf and you most certainly need to wake up from your slumber, for Christ, Stephen and Paul are describing precisely you. I know it's harsh, but I had to wake up and face these facts about myself.

Or, do you think that you were once like me, feeling that I was "lucky" and “special” to know the "truth" which allowed me to sin freely, and that you don’t have to obey and change? I humbly beg anyone who is reading, to check their hearts. It could be the different between eternal life and death. We must obey, we just must....

Water baptism doesn't save. Faith in Christ does. It seems like you were lied to when someone told you that your baptism saved you. Did you believe in Jesus before and after your baptism? If yes it feels like doing those things made you... Idk... worse. I mean I was a bad kid too and committed many horrible sins but after my conversion I sinned a lot less. It doesn't seem like you were born again at the time because born again Christians don't do stuff like that because the Holy Spirit would convict the heck out of them. Then again when I was a bad kid I wasn't a Christian at all. So I really don't know what I'm talking about...

 

[Oldmantook]

There will be no arguing on this thread. In this thread, we will exercise maturity, respect and honor. The objective of this thread is to learn, including myself, proven by the fact that I have lain before you some of my most grievous of sins. I do this so that we might learn. Let us be respectful to one another as examples for New Christians.

I was baptized at twelve years old. Literally, just minutes after my baptism, after being welcomed by my church into the “body of Christ”, I promptly walked 1.5 blocks down the road and stole a bag of rubber bands from 7-11. My hair was still wet from my water baptism, and I continued to steal as before baptism.

After baptism, my mother wanted me to do something specific, the task I don’t remember (probably wanting me to go to church.) This discussion was in the garage, so I picked up an ax and began swinging it as I walked towards my mother, telling her that she’d better back off because I wasn’t going to stop swinging or moving forward.

Much later in life and suffering from Alcoholism and Cannabis abuse, I attempted to kidnap an adult that robbed me of $70. The plan was to kidnap him from the streets at gunpoint, knifepoint, razorblade point, tying him up in the car, drive him to the top of Snoqualmie Pass (at night), rob HIM, take everything he had including his clothing and kick him out of our car buck naked, in the mountains about twenty miles from home in the freezing cold temperatures.

I was totally addicted to inappropriate content both before and after my marriage. While at the end of my married, I frequented strip clubs, spending an inordinate amount of money that could have been used to get myself some help!

After divorce, I slept with as many as three different women in one week, and almost had a fourth woman one specific week.

My alcoholism became so terrible that I could consume the equivalent of 36 cans of Budweiser in a single day. I begged God repeatedly, with tears streaming down my face, that He would heal me, fix me, take this alcoholism away. He refused as I suffered for over two decades with alcohol abuse.

I was so unbelievably difficult that my former wife divorced me, even though I asked three times if there was anything I could do or say to save the marriage. I was so terrible; my former wife didn’t even respond to my pleas.

I didn’t realize it, but I have lived a total life of manipulation. Just about everything about me was so fake and false, and I didn’t even realize it. I was the epitome of a “Wolf in in sheep’s clothing.” But you see, I was BAPTIZED! And we all know that anyone that is baptized is going to heaven, so I wasn’t eternally concerned about my behavior. When ever I read about eternal life, I assumed that I was saved and that reading about Wolves had nothing to do with me. I felt that my baptism protected me from the label of “Wolf” even though I was so much worse than most other “Wolves”.

I believed that once saved, always saved, meaning that all of the sins that I was committing above, I still felt that I was safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. For I, too, also associated water baptism with being saved, meaning that my salvation was always directly linked to getting dunked and wet when I was young.

When I was baptized, the ONLY sin that I mentioned above that I was guilty of, was stealing, swearing etc. So what happened to me? The bible teaches that we will not go on sinning. The Bible talks about turning from sin and sinning no more. It talks about becoming Holy and Righteous. The bible talks about a transformation and learning how to view life in a whole new way (Romans 12:2). When we change and become the best we can be, then we know that we are children of God. Our changed lives prove who we are and where we are eternally headed.

So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

Water Baptism as a saving factor for salvation has turned Christianity into a total mockery! It causes us to believe that we have been saved all throughout our lives, rendering us to say utterly stupid things such as, “Well, just pray about it”, and, “Confidence is from the Lord”, all the while we live in ways like I describe above because we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OBEDIENCE. Terrible! These are two very terrible and destructive doctrines to be used as replacements for actually changing and obeying! Those two phrases above guarantee one thing….”DNC” which means “Do Nothing Christians”.

We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber. We need to STOP being WOLVES! When Jesus, Stephen and the Apostle Paul all said this same thing, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”, that conceptual prayer applies to each of us in this forum. If you are living the way I describe above, then you ARE the Wolf and you most certainly need to wake up from your slumber, for Christ, Stephen and Paul are describing precisely you. I know it's harsh, but I had to wake up and face these facts about myself.

Or, do you think that you were once like me, feeling that I was "lucky" and “special” to know the "truth" which allowed me to sin freely, and that you don’t have to obey and change? I humbly beg anyone who is reading, to check their hearts. It could be the different between eternal life and death. We must obey, we just must....

First of all, let me say that I'm sorry to hear of what happened in your life (not that you're looking for empathy) but you have brought up a great point which I suspect has happened to many of those (including myself) who profess Christ.

The gospel message that is preached today and was told to me decades ago focuses primarily on belief. I was to to repent (I did) and believe (I did) according to John 3:16. I was now saved and all of my sins, past, present and future are forgiven under the blood of Christ. It was/is a truncated gospel message as I was a John 3:16 believer but not a Heb 5:9 believer. Heb 5:9 states that Jesus is that author of eternal salvation to all who are obeying him. This does not refer to a one-time moment of obedience in the past when one first obeyed in trusting Jesus for one's salvation. Instead the word obey is a present tense Greek verb meaning one has eternal life as long as one continues to go on obeying Jesus. By the time I had this "revelation" I had become a lukewarm Christian. I had read what Jesus said about being lukewarm in Revelation 3. I could never figure that one out as I reasoned with myself telling myself isn't being lukewarm temperature better than being a cold Christian. So why does Jesus vomit the lukewarm person? I finally realized that at least the cold Christian realizes his estrangement from God and knows he needs to repent. The lukewarm Christian has no idea of his peril as he still thinks he's right with God because despite his lukewarmness he's still eternally secure as God overlooks his sins because he's forgiven. The lukewarm Christian has no idea that he needs to repent as he thinks he's still secure. He is like the frog in the kettle who adapts to his sins much like the frog who is able to adapt his body temperature to the warming water in the kettle but before he realizes it, it's too late as he is boiled alive. That is what continued and unconfessed sin does as it results in spiritual death. That is why Jesus in Rev 3:20 urges the believer - not the unbeliever- to open the door and let him come in. Ironically, this verse is often used to evangelize the unsaved person when it's actually directed at us. Water baptism in and of itself does not save anyone. It is one of the first steps of obedience as we are commanded to be baptized. Our willingness to be obedient and get baptized is the evidence that we are saved. To refuse baptism is to refuse to obey. Disobedient Christians do not inherit eternal life.

I share your anger at believing in a wrong gospel. A wrong gospel that emphasizes belief at the expense of obedience. It took me and my family down the wrong path for many long years. I blame no one else or nothing else but myself. Now that I know better, I strive to do better but years of sin/bad habits are not easy to overcome (at least for me).

 

[MariaJLM]

Being saved doesn't mean you're free from sin. We all sin in our fallen state, whether we accept Christ or not. It's precisely why we need Him.

 

[Ken Rank]

There will be no arguing on this thread. In this thread, we will exercise maturity, respect and honor. The objective of this thread is to learn, including myself, proven by the fact that I have lain before you some of my most grievous of sins. I do this so that we might learn. Let us be respectful to one another as examples for New Christians.

I was baptized at twelve years old. Literally, just minutes after my baptism, after being welcomed by my church into the “body of Christ”, I promptly walked 1.5 blocks down the road and stole a bag of rubber bands from 7-11. My hair was still wet from my water baptism, and I continued to steal as before baptism.

After baptism, my mother wanted me to do something specific, the task I don’t remember (probably wanting me to go to church.) This discussion was in the garage, so I picked up an ax and began swinging it as I walked towards my mother, telling her that she’d better back off because I wasn’t going to stop swinging or moving forward.

Much later in life and suffering from Alcoholism and Cannabis abuse, I attempted to kidnap an adult that robbed me of $70. The plan was to kidnap him from the streets at gunpoint, knifepoint, razorblade point, tying him up in the car, drive him to the top of Snoqualmie Pass (at night), rob HIM, take everything he had including his clothing and kick him out of our car buck naked, in the mountains about twenty miles from home in the freezing cold temperatures.

I was totally addicted to inappropriate content both before and after my marriage. While at the end of my married, I frequented strip clubs, spending an inordinate amount of money that could have been used to get myself some help!

After divorce, I slept with as many as three different women in one week, and almost had a fourth woman one specific week.

My alcoholism became so terrible that I could consume the equivalent of 36 cans of Budweiser in a single day. I begged God repeatedly, with tears streaming down my face, that He would heal me, fix me, take this alcoholism away. He refused as I suffered for over two decades with alcohol abuse.

I was so unbelievably difficult that my former wife divorced me, even though I asked three times if there was anything I could do or say to save the marriage. I was so terrible; my former wife didn’t even respond to my pleas.

I didn’t realize it, but I have lived a total life of manipulation. Just about everything about me was so fake and false, and I didn’t even realize it. I was the epitome of a “Wolf in in sheep’s clothing.” But you see, I was BAPTIZED! And we all know that anyone that is baptized is going to heaven, so I wasn’t eternally concerned about my behavior. When ever I read about eternal life, I assumed that I was saved and that reading about Wolves had nothing to do with me. I felt that my baptism protected me from the label of “Wolf” even though I was so much worse than most other “Wolves”.

I believed that once saved, always saved, meaning that all of the sins that I was committing above, I still felt that I was safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. For I, too, also associated water baptism with being saved, meaning that my salvation was always directly linked to getting dunked and wet when I was young.

When I was baptized, the ONLY sin that I mentioned above that I was guilty of, was stealing, swearing etc. So what happened to me? The bible teaches that we will not go on sinning. The Bible talks about turning from sin and sinning no more. It talks about becoming Holy and Righteous. The bible talks about a transformation and learning how to view life in a whole new way (Romans 12:2). When we change and become the best we can be, then we know that we are children of God. Our changed lives prove who we are and where we are eternally headed.

So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

Water Baptism as a saving factor for salvation has turned Christianity into a total mockery! It causes us to believe that we have been saved all throughout our lives, rendering us to say utterly stupid things such as, “Well, just pray about it”, and, “Confidence is from the Lord”, all the while we live in ways like I describe above because we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OBEDIENCE. Terrible! These are two very terrible and destructive doctrines to be used as replacements for actually changing and obeying! Those two phrases above guarantee one thing….”DNC” which means “Do Nothing Christians”.

We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber. We need to STOP being WOLVES! When Jesus, Stephen and the Apostle Paul all said this same thing, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”, that conceptual prayer applies to each of us in this forum. If you are living the way I describe above, then you ARE the Wolf and you most certainly need to wake up from your slumber, for Christ, Stephen and Paul are describing precisely you. I know it's harsh, but I had to wake up and face these facts about myself.

Or, do you think that you were once like me, feeling that I was "lucky" and “special” to know the "truth" which allowed me to sin freely, and that you don’t have to obey and change? I humbly beg anyone who is reading, to check their hearts. It could be the different between eternal life and death. We must obey, we just must....

It sounds to me like you expected to go into the water and come out entirely transformed, that isn't how it works. In fact, one of messiah's work when he returns is to "perfect us" which means, by definition, we remain imperfect. And, this is a process. Generally I find that first year Christians tend to have it fairly easy, and then it gets a little harder. Why? Because God uses trials in order for us to grow. Consider...

James 5:11 Indeed we count them blessed who endure. You have heard of the perseverance of Job and seen the end intended by the Lord--that the Lord is very compassionate and merciful.

or...

Rom 5:3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance;
Rom 5:4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope.

Look at the Romans passage.... a tribulation of trial produces perseverance and once you are there we then develop character and once we develop some character we have hope... progression. Like a baby that comes out needing milk, that moves on to mush and softer foods, who eventually eats meat. It takes time, patience, effort and love to grow to the point where we change in more than one area. And we will grow... we might not become "perfect" until he returns, but we can change dramatically over time.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

There will be no arguing on this thread. In this thread, we will exercise maturity, respect and honor. The objective of this thread is to learn, including myself, proven by the fact that I have lain before you some of my most grievous of sins. I do this so that we might learn. Let us be respectful to one another as examples for New Christians.

I was baptized at twelve years old. Literally, just minutes after my baptism, after being welcomed by my church into the “body of Christ”, I promptly walked 1.5 blocks down the road and stole a bag of rubber bands from 7-11. My hair was still wet from my water baptism, and I continued to steal as before baptism.

After baptism, my mother wanted me to do something specific, the task I don’t remember (probably wanting me to go to church.) This discussion was in the garage, so I picked up an ax and began swinging it as I walked towards my mother, telling her that she’d better back off because I wasn’t going to stop swinging or moving forward.

Much later in life and suffering from Alcoholism and Cannabis abuse, I attempted to kidnap an adult that robbed me of $70. The plan was to kidnap him from the streets at gunpoint, knifepoint, razorblade point, tying him up in the car, drive him to the top of Snoqualmie Pass (at night), rob HIM, take everything he had including his clothing and kick him out of our car buck naked, in the mountains about twenty miles from home in the freezing cold temperatures.

I was totally addicted to inappropriate content both before and after my marriage. While at the end of my married, I frequented strip clubs, spending an inordinate amount of money that could have been used to get myself some help!

After divorce, I slept with as many as three different women in one week, and almost had a fourth woman one specific week.

My alcoholism became so terrible that I could consume the equivalent of 36 cans of Budweiser in a single day. I begged God repeatedly, with tears streaming down my face, that He would heal me, fix me, take this alcoholism away. He refused as I suffered for over two decades with alcohol abuse.

I was so unbelievably difficult that my former wife divorced me, even though I asked three times if there was anything I could do or say to save the marriage. I was so terrible; my former wife didn’t even respond to my pleas.

I didn’t realize it, but I have lived a total life of manipulation. Just about everything about me was so fake and false, and I didn’t even realize it. I was the epitome of a “Wolf in in sheep’s clothing.” But you see, I was BAPTIZED! And we all know that anyone that is baptized is going to heaven, so I wasn’t eternally concerned about my behavior. When ever I read about eternal life, I assumed that I was saved and that reading about Wolves had nothing to do with me. I felt that my baptism protected me from the label of “Wolf” even though I was so much worse than most other “Wolves”.

I believed that once saved, always saved, meaning that all of the sins that I was committing above, I still felt that I was safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. For I, too, also associated water baptism with being saved, meaning that my salvation was always directly linked to getting dunked and wet when I was young.

When I was baptized, the ONLY sin that I mentioned above that I was guilty of, was stealing, swearing etc. So what happened to me? The bible teaches that we will not go on sinning. The Bible talks about turning from sin and sinning no more. It talks about becoming Holy and Righteous. The bible talks about a transformation and learning how to view life in a whole new way (Romans 12:2). When we change and become the best we can be, then we know that we are children of God. Our changed lives prove who we are and where we are eternally headed.

So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

Water Baptism as a saving factor for salvation has turned Christianity into a total mockery! It causes us to believe that we have been saved all throughout our lives, rendering us to say utterly stupid things such as, “Well, just pray about it”, and, “Confidence is from the Lord”, all the while we live in ways like I describe above because we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OBEDIENCE. Terrible! These are two very terrible and destructive doctrines to be used as replacements for actually changing and obeying! Those two phrases above guarantee one thing….”DNC” which means “Do Nothing Christians”.

We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber. We need to STOP being WOLVES! When Jesus, Stephen and the Apostle Paul all said this same thing, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”, that conceptual prayer applies to each of us in this forum. If you are living the way I describe above, then you ARE the Wolf and you most certainly need to wake up from your slumber, for Christ, Stephen and Paul are describing precisely you. I know it's harsh, but I had to wake up and face these facts about myself.

Or, do you think that you were once like me, feeling that I was "lucky" and “special” to know the "truth" which allowed me to sin freely, and that you don’t have to obey and change? I humbly beg anyone who is reading, to check their hearts. It could be the different between eternal life and death. We must obey, we just must....

The problem is that there is a difference between "getting religion" and being genuinely converted to Christ. A genuinely converted believer does not sin in the way you described, and does not make excuses for sin. This is because true conversion is a work of the Holy Spirit in the person. The person cannot convert himself. Therefore he can believe all he likes, get baptized, attend church, live a moral life to a certain extent, and think he is on his way to heaven, when in actual fact, without conversion, he is still in his sins and still has the anger and wrath of God upon him.

What needs to happen is that after believing and praying the sinners prayer, which is just the starting point, you must get to grips with God and start praying earnestly that the Holy Spirit does the work of true conversion in you.

True conversion is a total transformation of the heart and spirit so that the person hates his own sin and desires with all his heart for holiness. Many people do easy believerism by praying a sinners prayer, go to church, get baptized, and then think they are right with God. But without true conversion, all that is in vain, and if they die, they will find the gates of heaven shut against them, because all they had was religion, but never pressed into Christ Himself to be genuinely converted by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus came to save us from our sins not in them. If you are still practising sin, you are lost, though you never be so religious, going to church, doing Christian work. You are being hypocritical if you are being religious at church, but still sinning habitually in your personal and family life.

Only genuine conversion will transform you so that your religion will be unfeigned and genuine - that you will be the same at home, at work, as you are at church. You can't convert yourself no matter how religious you are. Only God can do that in you, ad you have to seek God with all your heart, pray with all your might in secret, plead with Him for mercy and grace until the Holy Ghost work is done in you. Without it, you are not saved, but lost. The Scripture says "Repent and be converted, so that your sins be blotted out."

 

[LoveGodsWord]

There will be no arguing on this thread. In this thread, we will exercise maturity, respect and honor. The objective of this thread is to learn, including myself, proven by the fact that I have lain before you some of my most grievous of sins. I do this so that we might learn. Let us be respectful to one another as examples for New Christians.

I was baptized at twelve years old. Literally, just minutes after my baptism, after being welcomed by my church into the “body of Christ”, I promptly walked 1.5 blocks down the road and stole a bag of rubber bands from 7-11. My hair was still wet from my water baptism, and I continued to steal as before baptism.

After baptism, my mother wanted me to do something specific, the task I don’t remember (probably wanting me to go to church.) This discussion was in the garage, so I picked up an ax and began swinging it as I walked towards my mother, telling her that she’d better back off because I wasn’t going to stop swinging or moving forward.

Much later in life and suffering from Alcoholism and Cannabis abuse, I attempted to kidnap an adult that robbed me of $70. The plan was to kidnap him from the streets at gunpoint, knifepoint, razorblade point, tying him up in the car, drive him to the top of Snoqualmie Pass (at night), rob HIM, take everything he had including his clothing and kick him out of our car buck naked, in the mountains about twenty miles from home in the freezing cold temperatures.

I was totally addicted to inappropriate content both before and after my marriage. While at the end of my married, I frequented strip clubs, spending an inordinate amount of money that could have been used to get myself some help!

After divorce, I slept with as many as three different women in one week, and almost had a fourth woman one specific week.

My alcoholism became so terrible that I could consume the equivalent of 36 cans of Budweiser in a single day. I begged God repeatedly, with tears streaming down my face, that He would heal me, fix me, take this alcoholism away. He refused as I suffered for over two decades with alcohol abuse.

I was so unbelievably difficult that my former wife divorced me, even though I asked three times if there was anything I could do or say to save the marriage. I was so terrible; my former wife didn’t even respond to my pleas.

I didn’t realize it, but I have lived a total life of manipulation. Just about everything about me was so fake and false, and I didn’t even realize it. I was the epitome of a “Wolf in in sheep’s clothing.” But you see, I was BAPTIZED! And we all know that anyone that is baptized is going to heaven, so I wasn’t eternally concerned about my behavior. When ever I read about eternal life, I assumed that I was saved and that reading about Wolves had nothing to do with me. I felt that my baptism protected me from the label of “Wolf” even though I was so much worse than most other “Wolves”.

I believed that once saved, always saved, meaning that all of the sins that I was committing above, I still felt that I was safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. For I, too, also associated water baptism with being saved, meaning that my salvation was always directly linked to getting dunked and wet when I was young.

When I was baptized, the ONLY sin that I mentioned above that I was guilty of, was stealing, swearing etc. So what happened to me? The bible teaches that we will not go on sinning. The Bible talks about turning from sin and sinning no more. It talks about becoming Holy and Righteous. The bible talks about a transformation and learning how to view life in a whole new way (Romans 12:2). When we change and become the best we can be, then we know that we are children of God. Our changed lives prove who we are and where we are eternally headed.

So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

Water Baptism as a saving factor for salvation has turned Christianity into a total mockery! It causes us to believe that we have been saved all throughout our lives, rendering us to say utterly stupid things such as, “Well, just pray about it”, and, “Confidence is from the Lord”, all the while we live in ways like I describe above because we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OBEDIENCE. Terrible! These are two very terrible and destructive doctrines to be used as replacements for actually changing and obeying! Those two phrases above guarantee one thing….”DNC” which means “Do Nothing Christians”.

We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber. We need to STOP being WOLVES! When Jesus, Stephen and the Apostle Paul all said this same thing, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”, that conceptual prayer applies to each of us in this forum. If you are living the way I describe above, then you ARE the Wolf and you most certainly need to wake up from your slumber, for Christ, Stephen and Paul are describing precisely you. I know it's harsh, but I had to wake up and face these facts about myself.

Or, do you think that you were once like me, feeling that I was "lucky" and “special” to know the "truth" which allowed me to sin freely, and that you don’t have to obey and change? I humbly beg anyone who is reading, to check their hearts. It could be the different between eternal life and death. We must obey, we just must....

Hello brother Thess (please read the scriptures provided),

Thanks for your OP I thought it was an interesting read. The answer to your problem at that time was that you did not know God *1 JOHN 2:1-4. You were not an epitome of a “Wolf in in sheep’s clothing . This is in reference to false teachers *MATTHEW 7:15; ACTS 20:29.

How can you expect God's salvation from sin without knowing God by continuing in God's WORD *JOHN 8:31 when it is the WORD of GOD alone through Faith that grants God's POWER to save us from the power of sin that we are all slaves to *ROMANS 3:9-10; MATTHEW 9:12-13' JOHN 8:31-36; 2 TIMOTHY 3:5?

Water Baptism is only a symbol of an inward experience that should have already taken place which represents being BORN AGAIN and dying to the flesh (sinful human nature) to walk in newness of life by walking in GOD's Spirit through the WORD of GOD by faith *ROMANS 6:4; JOHN 3:3-8; 1 JOHN 3:3-10; JOHN 8:31-36; JOHN 7:17; JOHN 6:63; GALATIANS 5:16; ROMANS 6; ROMANS 7; ROMANS 8.

God's WORD does not teach once saved always saved (OSAS). All those who who continue in KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN are not in a saved state before GOD because they reject the FREE GIFT of GOD's dear son *ROMANS 6:23; HEBREWS 10:26-27; HEBREWS 6:4-8 and do not know God *1 JOHN 2:1-4; 1 JOHN 3:6. OBEDIENCE to God's WORD is the fruit of faith and the difference between God's people and the children of the devil *1 JOHN 3:3-10; JAMES 2:18-20; 26. If we continue in known unrepentant sin without God's forgivness through faith we will die *PROVERBS 28:13; ROMANS 8:13; ROMANS 6:23

Why do I point you to God's WORD? Because JESUS is the WORD of GOD *JOHN 1:1-4; 14 and it is FAITH in GOD's WORD that saves us from the power of sin and death *ROMANS 8:2; PSALMS 119:11; JOHN 3:16-21.

Thanks for your thoughts brother.

May God bless you as you seek him through his Word.

 

[royal priest]

Being baptized does not save anymore than not being baptized damns. Faith is the essential requisite for salvation. Baptism is a mere expression of that requisite.
Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

 

[Oldmantook]

The problem is that there is a difference between "getting religion" and being genuinely converted to Christ. A genuinely converted believer does not sin in the way you described, and does not make excuses for sin. This is because true conversion is a work of the Holy Spirit in the person. The person cannot convert himself. Therefore he can believe all he likes, get baptized, attend church, live a moral life to a certain extent, and think he is on his way to heaven, when in actual fact, without conversion, he is still in his sins and still has the anger and wrath of God upon him.

What needs to happen is that after believing and praying the sinners prayer, which is just the starting point, you must get to grips with God and start praying earnestly that the Holy Spirit does the work of true conversion in you.

True conversion is a total transformation of the heart and spirit so that the person hates his own sin and desires with all his heart for holiness. Many people do easy believerism by praying a sinners prayer, go to church, get baptized, and then think they are right with God. But without true conversion, all that is in vain, and if they die, they will find the gates of heaven shut against them, because all they had was religion, but never pressed into Christ Himself to be genuinely converted by the Holy Spirit.

Jesus came to save us from our sins not in them. If you are still practising sin, you are lost, though you never be so religious, going to church, doing Christian work. You are being hypocritical if you are being religious at church, but still sinning habitually in your personal and family life.

Only genuine conversion will transform you so that your religion will be unfeigned and genuine - that you will be the same at home, at work, as you are at church. You can't convert yourself no matter how religious you are. Only God can do that in you, ad you have to seek God with all your heart, pray with all your might in secret, plead with Him for mercy and grace until the Holy Ghost work is done in you. Without it, you are not saved, but lost. The Scripture says "Repent and be converted, so that your sins be blotted out."

Can someone be genuinely saved, regenerated in the Spirit and later fall into sin and be lost?

 

[TuxAme]

Just because you are baptized does not mean that you'll be impeccable for the rest of your life. If baptism were all that was necessary for salvation, Jesus wouldn't have needed to give the apostles a share in His ministry of forgiveness. If baptism revoked your free will, not allowing you to sin anymore, then He wouldn't have chastised the Churches He did in Revelation, because they would've been unable to do anything but what is good.

Baptism can change you, but it isn't a forced conversion. You need to cooperate with the grace that it grants you. You rebelled against that grace, and hopefully you've repented since then.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Can someone be genuinely saved, regenerated in the Spirit and later fall into sin and be lost?

If a person has genuinely been converted through the work of the Holy Spirit in them, it would be very difficult, because the believer would have totally transformed and have a new heart that would love God and hate sin.

The problem is that many get religion, go through the motions, and think they are converted when they are not. Conversion is the work of God, and just making a decision for Christ and believing the Gospel would be in vain, if the believer did not press into God for the conversion to happen.

Many don't understand that. They think that just because they realise they are a sinner (conviction) and making a decision for Christ is enough to get them to heaven. But they are still lost until God converts them, and this will only happen when the believer gets to grips with God and prays it into reality.

This is why John can say that a person born of God cannot sin. There has been a transformation within them and they no longer want to sin. Their flesh may get in the way sometimes, but they see this as dust in their eyes - an irritation. John did not say that the person who accepts Christ and gets religion, even Christianity, cannot sin. He says that those who are born of God are the ones who cannot sin. And a person cannot re-birth himself. It is the work of God and one must seek God with all his heart until God does the work.

 

[Oldmantook]

If a person has genuinely been converted through the work of the Holy Spirit in them, it would be very difficult, because the believer would have totally transformed and have a new heart that would love God and hate sin.

The problem is that many get religion, go through the motions, and think they are converted when they are not. Conversion is the work of God, and just making a decision for Christ and believing the Gospel would be in vain, if the believer did not press into God for the conversion to happen.

Many don't understand that. They think that just because they realise they are a sinner (conviction) and making a decision for Christ is enough to get them to heaven. But they are still lost until God converts them, and this will only happen when the believer gets to grips with God and prays it into reality.

This is why John can say that a person born of God cannot sin. There has been a transformation within them and they no longer want to sin. Their flesh may get in the way sometimes, but they see this as dust in their eyes - an irritation. John did not say that the person who accepts Christ and gets religion, even Christianity, cannot sin. He says that those who are born of God are the ones who cannot sin. And a person cannot re-birth himself. It is the work of God and one must seek God with all his heart until God does the work.

While I agree with you that some who turn to sin or keep sinning after "conversion" were not truly saved to begin with, it does not necessarily entail that all who keep sinning were never saved to begin with. That would be a logical fallacy known as an overgeneralization. That would be like saying since some chickens lay brown eggs, all chickens therefore lay brown eggs which of course is not true.

John does not say that a person born of God cannot sin. We all sin and no one is without sin according to 1 John 1:8,10. What John actually wrote is that a person born of God does not practice sin. 1 Jn 3:4 states "Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness." 9 "No one born of God makes a practice of sinning for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God."
Thus all Christians still sin on occasion since no one is without sin but not all Christians make a practice of sin/habitual sin.

Those Christians who refuse to live obediently and instead retain habitual sin in their lives choose to live according to their flesh instead of according to the Spirit. The apostle Paul warned those who do so of the consequences of living according to the flesh. In Rom 8:13 he warned the brethren in Rome: "For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live." Death here refers to spiritual death because everyone dies physically irrespective of the manner in which we live our lives. Thus IF a believer chooses to live his/her life according to the flesh, he/she will spiritually die.

 

[St_Worm2]

Hi @Thess, I was baptized as an infant and raised in the church (went to Sunday School, sang in the kids choir, was confirmed, went on retreats, and I attended regularly through college, you know, the whole 9 yards, or so I thought anyway ). I loved church, especially as a kid, and I always 'thought' I was a Christian (even after I had left any real semblance of acting like a "Christian" behind during and after my college years for a VERY worldly/sinful lifestyle), until the day I finally became one, 2 months after my 30th birthday (11/2/86). That's when ~EVERYTHING~ changed, because that's when I finally came to saving faith in Christ

So, my question for you is this, when/why/how did things change for you? Clearly you weren't saved at 12, because nothing about your life back then demonstrated that you were (demonstrated that you had been quickened/regenerated to life by God & caused to be born again, or that you had been made into a wholly new creature in Christ & made His workmanship .. Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 3:3; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 2:1-5, 8-10).

So again (if you don't mind), what's the flip-side, how did your story of life as a baptized, very sinful, non-Christian, change into something FAR more wonderful?

Thanks!

--David
p.s. - I would not discount the importance of church in your life (even if what they taught you back then was not perfect), as I believe that, like me, the HS used your early on experience there (the knowledge you gained about God & His great love for you, and your need for the Savior) to help bring you to saving faith later.

 

[HTacianas]

There will be no arguing on this thread. In this thread, we will exercise maturity, respect and honor. The objective of this thread is to learn, including myself, proven by the fact that I have lain before you some of my most grievous of sins. I do this so that we might learn. Let us be respectful to one another as examples for New Christians.

I was baptized at twelve years old. Literally, just minutes after my baptism, after being welcomed by my church into the “body of Christ”, I promptly walked 1.5 blocks down the road and stole a bag of rubber bands from 7-11. My hair was still wet from my water baptism, and I continued to steal as before baptism.

After baptism, my mother wanted me to do something specific, the task I don’t remember (probably wanting me to go to church.) This discussion was in the garage, so I picked up an ax and began swinging it as I walked towards my mother, telling her that she’d better back off because I wasn’t going to stop swinging or moving forward.

Much later in life and suffering from Alcoholism and Cannabis abuse, I attempted to kidnap an adult that robbed me of $70. The plan was to kidnap him from the streets at gunpoint, knifepoint, razorblade point, tying him up in the car, drive him to the top of Snoqualmie Pass (at night), rob HIM, take everything he had including his clothing and kick him out of our car buck naked, in the mountains about twenty miles from home in the freezing cold temperatures.

I was totally addicted to inappropriate content both before and after my marriage. While at the end of my married, I frequented strip clubs, spending an inordinate amount of money that could have been used to get myself some help!

After divorce, I slept with as many as three different women in one week, and almost had a fourth woman one specific week.

My alcoholism became so terrible that I could consume the equivalent of 36 cans of Budweiser in a single day. I begged God repeatedly, with tears streaming down my face, that He would heal me, fix me, take this alcoholism away. He refused as I suffered for over two decades with alcohol abuse.

I was so unbelievably difficult that my former wife divorced me, even though I asked three times if there was anything I could do or say to save the marriage. I was so terrible; my former wife didn’t even respond to my pleas.

I didn’t realize it, but I have lived a total life of manipulation. Just about everything about me was so fake and false, and I didn’t even realize it. I was the epitome of a “Wolf in in sheep’s clothing.” But you see, I was BAPTIZED! And we all know that anyone that is baptized is going to heaven, so I wasn’t eternally concerned about my behavior. When ever I read about eternal life, I assumed that I was saved and that reading about Wolves had nothing to do with me. I felt that my baptism protected me from the label of “Wolf” even though I was so much worse than most other “Wolves”.

I believed that once saved, always saved, meaning that all of the sins that I was committing above, I still felt that I was safe and secure in the arms of Jesus. For I, too, also associated water baptism with being saved, meaning that my salvation was always directly linked to getting dunked and wet when I was young.

When I was baptized, the ONLY sin that I mentioned above that I was guilty of, was stealing, swearing etc. So what happened to me? The bible teaches that we will not go on sinning. The Bible talks about turning from sin and sinning no more. It talks about becoming Holy and Righteous. The bible talks about a transformation and learning how to view life in a whole new way (Romans 12:2). When we change and become the best we can be, then we know that we are children of God. Our changed lives prove who we are and where we are eternally headed.

So how is it possible, that after water baptism, which saves, how is it that I could become a complete and total monster, negatively effecting thousands of people throughout my life post baptism?

Water Baptism as a saving factor for salvation has turned Christianity into a total mockery! It causes us to believe that we have been saved all throughout our lives, rendering us to say utterly stupid things such as, “Well, just pray about it”, and, “Confidence is from the Lord”, all the while we live in ways like I describe above because we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OBEDIENCE. Terrible! These are two very terrible and destructive doctrines to be used as replacements for actually changing and obeying! Those two phrases above guarantee one thing….”DNC” which means “Do Nothing Christians”.

We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber. We need to STOP being WOLVES! When Jesus, Stephen and the Apostle Paul all said this same thing, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”, that conceptual prayer applies to each of us in this forum. If you are living the way I describe above, then you ARE the Wolf and you most certainly need to wake up from your slumber, for Christ, Stephen and Paul are describing precisely you. I know it's harsh, but I had to wake up and face these facts about myself.

Or, do you think that you were once like me, feeling that I was "lucky" and “special” to know the "truth" which allowed me to sin freely, and that you don’t have to obey and change? I humbly beg anyone who is reading, to check their hearts. It could be the different between eternal life and death. We must obey, we just must....

Baptism cleanses us of our previous sins and brings us into the grace of God. It does not turn us into robots.

Even after baptism we must still cooperate with the grace of God to attain salvation. If we cooperate with that grace we will eventually attain it. If we choose to have our own will over God's will, we will not attain it.

1Co 9:24 - Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it.

1Co 9:27 - But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.

 

[Kenny'sID]

Water Baptism as a saving factor for salvation has turned Christianity into a total mockery! It causes us to believe that we have been saved all throughout our lives, rendering us to say utterly stupid things such as, “Well, just pray about it”, and, “Confidence is from the Lord”, all the while we live in ways like I describe above because we KNOW NOTHING ABOUT OBEDIENCE. Terrible! These are two very terrible and destructive doctrines to be used as replacements for actually changing and obeying! Those two phrases above guarantee one thing….”DNC” which means “Do Nothing Christians”.

We Christians are the laziest, most hypocritical beasts on the planet, and I suggest that we wake up, get ahold of our rational and reasonable selves and start obeying, snapping out of our slumber. We need to STOP being WOLVES! When Jesus, Stephen and the Apostle Paul all said this same thing, “Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do”, that conceptual prayer applies to each of us in this forum. If you are living the way I describe above, then you ARE the Wolf and you most certainly need to wake up from your slumber, for Christ, Stephen and Paul are describing precisely you. I know it's harsh, but I had to wake up and face these facts about myself.

There have and evidently always will be, those who feel they can live in sin as they wish and still be saved, something that is just the opposite of biblical.

The reasons for that is simple... it's a do nothing/have your cake and eat it too religion that people of course love and prefer to be truth whether it is or not. The churches that teach that make plenty of money off it, because once again, it's what people want and any reinforcement of the doctrine makes it that much easier to believe.

Like minded people can often convince themselves of anything, as in "All those people believe it, so it must be true".

I think the term "lazy" was used in the OP, and I agree. Lazy, and those that just don't want the truth because it's not near as much fun, or selfishness, something there is no room for in true Christianity.

 

[Thess]

Being saved doesn't mean you're free from sin. We all sin in our fallen state, whether we accept Christ or not. It's precisely why we need Him.

Thank you for your response, I hear what you're saying. Do you agree with the below verse that I've pasted?

[Phl 2:13 NIV] 13 "....for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose."