If this isn't Islam then why do the Muslims say it is Islam?

[HumbleSiPilot77]

But your still praying to MARY, not God, here. THAT'S the issue, I believe.

Negative, we do ask her prayers for us. The difference being she doesn't belong to our time constraints anymore. It is the same deal when I ask, Navydude, I am going on a convoy tomorrow, pray for me man, and we say Holy Theotokos, pray for us. My patron saint is Saint John. I ask him, Holy Saint of God, John, pray for me. It is not nonsensical. Early Christians did it, it is documented, and I do it as they did it.

I do not believe in the Real Presence.

http://christianforums.com/f718-sacramental-ordinance-theology.html

http://christianforums.com/f726-mariology-hagiography.html

Too bad! He was present in the VERY FIRST one. And He said " I SHALL BE WITH YOU ALWAYS" Apostles always believed He was there when the body was broken and blood was shed. How glorious can it get?

and what would teh "real presence" be, exactly? Please enlighten us oh-so-ignorant Protestants, eh?

Eucharist is the body and blood of Christ, the bread and the wine. During the liturgy, we believe as early Christians did, that Holy Spirit of God transforms the bread and body to literal Christ. Sounds nonsensical? Good thing to do about that is, ask why it would be nonsensical? Who made it nonsensical? History is clear, it was always believed like that before. Who wanted to chop the Traditions off the Church?

Good thing I'm a Christian then, eh?
Hrm, I thought those links actually went to a thread, or some such.
So I ask again.
Define "real presence", please, cuz I'm not going to find it in the mess of those threads in the links, sorry.

Please ask me more if you are interested, there is a quote from someone that says, knowing the history of Church is to cease to be Protestant. Not to degrade them, as I believe they are Christians too, but I was in the same boat....

If that will help the non-Christians come to JESUS and His Father YHWH, I am all for it!!!

Everyone goes through that process. Why does a Pentecostal speak in tongues while a Baptist laughs at him? There is no consistence without the authority of Christ and His Church. We believe the successors of Apostles kept the faith straight, as it is written.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Please ask me more if you are interested, there is a quote from someone that says, knowing the history of Church is to cease to be Protestant. Not to degrade them, as I believe they are Christians too, but I was in the same boat....

Then I guess the RCs better re-study their church history.

I am Scripture only so I never read the ECFs myself.

http://christianforums.com/t5805969
What would it take for Orthodoxs to come under Pope

quote: The Pope would renounce his Roman Catholicism and become Orthodox. There is nothing that would cause the Church as a whole to join with him.

 

[Secundulus]

I am Scripture only so I never read the ECFs myself.

How do you understand scripture when you take it out of the context of those who lived closest to it?

Even the great Reformers such as Luther and Calvin read and studied the ECF.

Some of these ECF had such great faith that they died as martyrs for the testimony of Christ. Read the stories of Polycarp, Justin Martyr, and Ignatius. Read the prison diary of Perpetua and her stories of the martyrdom of herself, Felicitas, Secundulus, Revocatus, and Saturninus.

These men and women paid with their blood for their testimony. And Christians today spit on them and say they are not worth the time of day.

These are the martyrs spoken of by John:

" When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?"" (Revelation 6:9-10, NASB95)


How can you ignore what they wrote? They wrote it for you, and for all of us.

 

[NavyGuy7]

I always thought the bread and wine thing was really just a "ritual/tradition" of remembrance... they're symbols, in other words, but to mock it is to mock God, of course. It's reverance.

 

[yaqovzadeek]

It is a Christian action, recorded in the scriptures, that we pray for each other.

As for the second part, that is a simplistic notion of Christian theology.

Yeah but If by praying directly to god you gain his mercy why then ask someone who is dead already to pray for you.He/she is dead, the dead are unable to do anything.
peace
yaqovzadeek
aka james the Just

 

[Secundulus]

why then ask someone who is dead already to pray for you.He/she is dead, the dead are unable to do anything.
peace
yaqovzadeek
aka james the Just

A person holding the testimony of Christ Jesus does not die. They are alive.

For those who do not hold this testimony, they are dead already.

 

[HumbleSiPilot77]

Any questions NavyGuy? Come visit us @ The Ancient Way of CF.