If there is no evidence for creation...

[LittleLambofJesus]

And if you think you're not circular because you can go to the Mariana Trench and measure the depth yourself, then I don't think I'm circular because I can go to Jerusalem and confirm its existence for myself as well.

Whatever you say about me, I'll say the same about you --- fair enough?

Can ya also confirm the existance of the Temple/Sanctuary for me?

John 11:48 "If ever we may be letting Him thus, all shall be believing into Him, and shall be coming the Romans and they shall be taking away of Us and the Place and the Nation."

http://www.davieapostolicchurch.com/studies/destuct/

.....The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover......

 

[gaara4158]

Cute, but not exactly.

I cannot say this with enough emphasis: It doesn't matter whether science is circular or not; it has no effect on whether the Bible is circular logic.

Here's why your reasoning is circular logic:

You've admitted that you believe the Bible is true because God said so. But you also admitted that you believe God said so because the Bible says it.

You cannot use them to justify each other. One of your assertions must be verified independently of the other.


Here's why science isn't circular logic:

And if you think you're not circular because you can go to the Mariana Trench and measure the depth yourself, then I don't think I'm circular because I can go to Jerusalem and confirm its existence for myself as well.

1. Science doesn't demand that I believe in the studies of various scientists from around the world. I don't see why I shouldn't, but I'm welcome to believe whatever I want.
2. The existence of Jerusalem doesn't confirm anything about the Bible, whereas if I were to visit the Mariana Trench myself, I would be confirming exactly what was in question.

And if you want to get real cute and apply this to the Creation, then I can get real cute and apply this to your Big Bang. If I can't go back and independently confirm the Creation, you can't go back and independently confirm the Big Bang.

I don't claim to know how matter came into being. I'll certainly give any theory that I encounter some thought though, and if it makes sense, I might buy it.
The thing about the Big Bang, though, is that it seems to have a good deal of evidence behind it. That's how the theory came into being in the first place; evaluation of the evidence followed by formation of a hypothesis, followed by confirmation of the hypothesis, followed by the development of a theory.
With creation, however, you just read what the Bible says and that's the end of it. Evidence is for wussies.

 

[Danyc]

And if you want to get real cute and apply this to the Creation, then I can get real cute and apply this to your Big Bang. If I can't go back and independently confirm the Creation, you can't go back and independently confirm the Big Bang.

Unfortunately for you, there is a lot of evidence for the Big Bang. The Creation event has no evidence.

 

[AV1611VET]

Unfortunately for you, there is a lot of evidence for the Big Bang.

Too bad it didn't come with documentation, eh?

 

[bill'swife]

...then why should we believe it? Because the Bible said so? That begs the question, why should we believe the Bible?

Whatever....I believe....you can believe or not believe what you want to.

 

[Vene]

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. If you think we're using circular logic because our Documentation confirms our Documentation; then I think you're using circular logic because your documentation confirms your documentation.

Too bad it didn't come with documentation, eh?

Your "arguments" aren't even consistent.

 

[AV1611VET]

Your "arguments" aren't even consistent.

You know what I mean --- in the former, I was referring to your McGraw-Hill bibles.

 

[gaara4158]

Whatever....I believe....you can believe or not believe what you want to.

That's fine if you believe... I just want to know why. It puzzles me.

 

[gaara4158]

You know what I mean --- in the former, I was referring to your McGraw-Hill bibles.

Respond to my post.

 

[Vene]

You know what I mean --- in the former, I was referring to your McGraw-Hill bibles.

Nope, no bibles. Just what has been observed. And the big bang is in textbooks. Like this one:

Which has neat little things backing up the big bang like cosmic background radiation. You know, direct observations.

Hey, look at that, our "bibles" conform to what is actually seen in the universe.

 

[bill'swife]

That's fine if you believe... I just want to know why. It puzzles me.

Because I do...How come you don't? That, to me, is just as puzzling.

 

[gaara4158]

Because I do...How come you don't? That, to me, is just as puzzling.

You believe because you believe... ok, why do you believe? I'm not trying to fight you or anything... I just want to know. In the absence of evidence, what is there to make you believe in God?

 

[AV1611VET]

In the absence of evidence, what is there to make you believe in God?

We call it "faith" --- the evidence of things not seen.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

FAITH = Facts Accepted In The Heart ---

 

[gaara4158]

We call it "faith" --- the evidence of things not seen.

Ok, so it's faith. In other words, belief with no basis in reality. How do you attain this faith when there are no facts supporting it?

 

[bill'swife]

You believe because you believe... ok, why do you believe? I'm not trying to fight you or anything... I just want to know. In the absence of evidence, what is there to make you believe in God?

Because God made me that way, just like the way He made me a female....He allows me to believe. Praise God!!! I am saved from Hell by the grace of God by faith simply beacuse I believe. Jesus lives inside of me now and when I die I will be with Him in Heaven for all eternity. That's about the best I can do to try to explain it.

I mean,if I really didn't believe, I might think like this....."If God isn't real and I believe, no harm done, it wouldn't matter anyway, what do you have to lose? I just die. On the other hand if God is real(and He is) and I don't believe I have everything to lose winding up in Hell for eternity." Sorta like it's better to be safe than sorry....you know what I mean?

 

[gaara4158]

Because God made me that way just like he made me a female....he allows me to believe. Praise God!!! I am saved from Hell by the grace of God by faith simply beacuse I believe. Jesus lives inside of me now and when I die I will be with Him in Heaven for all eternity. That's about the best I can do to try to explain it.

Well see, that's circular logic. You believe God exists because you believe God made you believe he exists. I think it's the other way around; you believe God made you a certain way because you believe God exists in the first place. Do some soul-searching on why you really believe... there are no wrong answers.

I mean, if God isn't real and I believe, no harm done, it wouldn't matter anyway, what do you have to lose? I just die. On the other hand if God is real(and He is) and I don't believe I have everything to lose winding up in Hell for eternity. Sorta like it's better to be safe than sorry....you know what I mean?

Ah, the famous pascal's wager. So tell me, do you pass on all those chain letters because they say if you don't, you'll die in X days?

 

[atomweaver]

Because God made me that way, just like the way He made me a female....He allows me to believe.

Of course, by that logic, God also deliberately makes people without faith, in essence, they're damned from the get-go, and its due to the way He made them. I don't think this is a sound argument from your POV...

Praise God!!! I am saved from Hell by the grace of God by faith simply beacuse I believe. Jesus lives inside of me now and when I die I will be with Him in Heaven for all eternity. That's about the best I can do to try to explain it.

I mean,if I really didn't believe, I might think like this....."If God isn't real and I believe, no harm done, it wouldn't matter anyway, what do you have to lose? I just die. On the other hand if God is real(and He is) and I don't believe I have everything to lose winding up in Hell for eternity." Sorta like it's better to be safe than sorry....you know what I mean?

That's called Pascal's Wager, and wagering successfully is dependent upon betting your soul on the right God (Christian? Muslim? Hindu? Buddhist? You've got one shot, better pick the right horse...). Also, there remains the fact that if you are accept the wager, the correct God has set up a reality where s/he has hidden himself amongst thousands of possible choices. Also also, you haven't yet worked around those who are born and raised with no knowledge of your brand of God at all. There are many for whom the Wager isn't even offered (yielding yet more souls damned from inception by the God that created them, is that the mark of a benevolent God?) Again, not a beneficial POV for ya...

There are good reasons to hold to your faith. These aren't them.

 

[bill'swife]

Do some soul-searching on why you really believe.Oh, are you saying I don't believe? Sounds like an argument to me. Just so you know....I really believe.

Ah, the famous pascal's wager. So tell me, do you pass on all those chain letters because they say if you don't, you'll die in X days?

Never heard of pascal and no, I don't believe in chain letters. LOL

 

[gaara4158]

Oh, are you saying I don't believe? Sounds like an argument to me. Just so you know....I really believe.

Not at all. I'm just saying the reason you provided isn't the real reason you believe. There's something else that maybe you haven't identified yet.

Never heard of pascal and no, I don't believe in chain letters. LOL

That's why I included the link. And if you don't believe in chain letters, then why do you use a "better safe than sorry" philosophy when it comes to God? Seems rather inconsistent to me.

 

[Vene]

Never heard of pascal and no, I don't believe in chain letters. LOL

Why not? Maybe one of them is right, if you don't then you're taking a risk. There is just as much evidence for chain letters being true as there is for creationism. That being said, I wonder why so many Christians fall for it when the Jews, the people who wrote Genesis, have no problems with evolutionary theory, but you guys, supposedly the followers of Christ, are so stuck on the first book.

And what you just said about it being safer to believe is known as Pascal's Wager. It's also a great example of a bad argument because it assumes there are only two options when there is a near infinite amount.