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If theistic evolution, how can God save a raven?

The Barbarian

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Then there's no truly naturalist processes.
God uses natural processes for almost everything in this world. YECs just don't see nature as being subject to God. Which is odd, seeing as He made it to fulfill His will.
 
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Carl Emerson

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God uses natural processes for almost everything in this world. YECs just don't see nature as being subject to God. Which is odd, seeing as He made it to fulfill His will.

What is your take on the donkey who spoke - was this not direct intervention by God?
 
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The Barbarian

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What is your take on the donkey who spoke - was this not direct intervention by God?
Miracles are a different thing entirely. God clearly does not have to do miracles to make the universe work according to His will. They are done to teach us something. Balaam's ass was a direct intervention by God to make a point. Otherwise, He uses nature. That's what He created it for. Engineers have shown that natural selection works better than design for complex problems.

As usual, God had it right, the first time.
 
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Carl Emerson

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Engineers have shown that natural selection works better than design for complex problems.
Have you a reference for this.

Can we say that if clever humans do such, that God must have done the same ?
 
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David Lamb

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God uses natural processes for almost everything in this world. YECs just don't see nature as being subject to God. Which is odd, seeing as He made it to fulfill His will.
Young Earth Creationists certainly do see nature as being subject to God. I wonder what evidence you have to suggest that they don't.
 
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The Liturgist

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hing in this world. YECs just don't see nature as being subject to God.

I’m not a Young Earth Creationist, but this remark is clearly inaccurate.
 
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The Barbarian

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Young Earth Creationists certainly do see nature as being subject to God.
I've been told by YECs that nature is corrupted and subject to Satan. If some don't think so, good for them. And my apologies to them.
 
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Carl Emerson

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I've been told by YECs that nature is corrupted and subject to Satan. If some don't think so, good for them. And my apologies to them.

From Romans 1 : 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made...

If God was not in control of creation there would be no evidence of Him in it.
 
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The Barbarian

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From Romans 1 : 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made...

If God was not in control of creation there would be no evidence of Him in it.
My thought, exactly. And yet, YECs have told me that the world is corrupt and subject to Satan.

"God was literally telling Adam the consequences of his action. Adam allowed Satan take dominion of the earth and God was telling Adam the effect of that."
 
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