If the Papacy were the beast...

[tz620q]

..... Or by people sent by YHWH to set the prisoners free......

The Reformers , Waldensians, Anabaptists, and others
did not speculate.

Your whole argument is predicated on Catholics not being Christian and being held captive to heretical false religion. Oddly, this seems to be the very claim that you use to justify the claim that the Papacy was the beast, since they declared other Christians to be heretical.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No, they interpreted scripture to suit their own individual beliefs / needs!

Not when they were sent by YHWH,
like the Apostles, Prophets and disciples of Y'SHUA.
They don't interpret Scripture at all. Just proclaim it.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Your whole argument is predicated on

YHWH'S WORD and REVELATION in Y'SHUA.
Everyone who has the SON has LIFE.
Everyone who has not the SON has not LIFE.
TODAY.
(already)

 

[ken777]

I think this thread has devolved from one of history to one of speculation. A look at history would show that the number of the beast was 666 in many early manuscripts and 616 in other early manuscripts. The difference of 50 could be due to the title being rendered from Latin, Nero Caesar into Hebrew gematria or being rendered from Greek, Neron Caesar into Hebrew gematria. That is one historical theory. There are others as numerous as there are opinions. In truth, what good does it do us to speculate, when we are called to be holy and set apart from this world anyway?

It does no harm to consider the alternatives and be prepared. As for 666, I expect it will be the most well know numerical alphabet today.

 

[tz620q]

YHWH'S WORD and REVELATION in Y'SHUA.
Everyone who has the SON has LIFE.
Everyone who has not the SON has not LIFE.
TODAY.
(already)

Speaking for God is another claim that is leveled at the Papacy.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

It does no harm to consider the alternatives and be prepared. As for 666, I expect it will be the most well know numerical alphabet today.

Even among unbelievers, yes.
Every country on earth has signed up years or decades ago.
It is well known to the 'leaders'.

 

[tz620q]

It does no harm to consider the alternatives and be prepared.

Doesn't it? Has this line of speculation led to anything but further division in Christianity under the guise of drawing away from this "New World Order"?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Speaking for God is another claim that is leveled at the Papacy.

? So read the BIBLE, ask the AUTHOR of the BIBLE what the AUTHOR of the BIBLE means.
The SHEPHERD named in the BIBLE says that ALL of HIS sheep KNOW HIS VOICE. So no worries for the sheep.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Has this line of speculation led to anything but further division in Christianity under the guise of drawing away from this "New World Order"?

No.

 

[Goatee]

Not when they were sent by YHWH,
like the Apostles, Prophets and disciples of Y'SHUA.
They don't interpret Scripture at all. Just proclaim it.

How do you know God sent them?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

How do you know God sent them?

The SHEPHERD guides us daily, HIS VOICE we know.

They tested out true to the SHEPHERD'S WORD - test them all like the BEREANS did test the Apostle's messages.
Every message is subject to testing by YHWH'S WORD
as
YHWH SHOWS the BEREANS did and presents them
and the PROPHETS in the OT
as examples - always turning TO YHWH'S WORD
to
remain free (or get free) from all the deceptions of men and satan.

 

[Goatee]

The SHEPHERD guides us daily, HIS VOICE we know.

They tested out true to the SHEPHERD'S WORD - test them all like the BEREANS did test the Apostle's messages.
Every message is subject to testing by YHWH'S WORD
as
YHWH SHOWS the BEREANS did and presents them
and the PROPHETS in the OT
as examples - always turning TO YHWH'S WORD
to
remain free (or get free) from all the deceptions of men and satan.

Still doesnt answer the question though.

Luther etc could have been deceived by the devil for all we know! Coaxed from the 'true church'. Easily led away from it. He did not have the strength to stay in the church, just like his compatriots. He divided Christianity massively!!!!

 

[tz620q]

? So read the BIBLE, ask the AUTHOR of the BIBLE what the AUTHOR of the BIBLE means.
The SHEPHERD named in the BIBLE says that ALL of HIS sheep KNOW HIS VOICE. So no worries for the sheep.

Jesus left Peter to be his shepherd, read John 20.

Since we are talking about Revelation 13:16-18, how do you take the translation "the number of a man" and say that this now represents an office?

 

[Goatee]

Acts 20:28Revised
28 Take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you guardians, to feed the church of the Lord which he obtained with his own blood.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Still doesnt answer the question though.

Luther etc could have been deceived by the devil for all we know! Coaxed from the 'true church'. Easily led away from it. He did not have the strength to stay in the church, just like his compatriots. He divided Christianity massively!!!!

Not at all.
He did what the APostle Paul, and the other Apostles did,
what Y'SHUA said to do,
What YHWH revealed to them, they proclaimed.

By reading YHWH'S WORD (the BIBLE), you or anyone else can confirm this,
and no one has ever proved the Apostles or Martin Luther wrong concerning the message YHWH sent through Y'SHUA of SALVATION BY FAITH ;

thus just as YHWH set people free while yet Y'SHUA was on earth, YHWH continued and continues to set people free TODAY. (BY HIS WORD). (people have to read it and believe by FAITH IN Y'SHUA that

YHWH exists, and YHWH rewards those who diligently seek HIM and keep seeking HIM.

It doesn't matter how they were brought up, rich or poor, in church or out of church, in religion or with no religion.

 

[Goatee]

Not at all.
He did what the APostle Paul, and the other Apostles did,
what Y'SHUA said to do,
What YHWH revealed to them, they proclaimed.

By reading YHWH'S WORD (the BIBLE), you or anyone else can confirm this,
and no one has ever proved the Apostles or Martin Luther wrong concerning the message YHWH sent through Y'SHUA of SALVATION BY FAITH ;

thus just as YHWH set people free while yet Y'SHUA was on earth, YHWH continued and continues to set people free TODAY. (BY HIS WORD). (people have to read it and believe by FAITH IN Y'SHUA that

YHWH exists, and YHWH rewards those who diligently seek HIM and keep seeking HIM.

It doesn't matter how they were brought up, rich or poor, in church or out of church, in religion or with no religion.

He didn't do as the Apostles did. Luther 'divided' Christianity. He started the ball rolling which broke the church in 2. Was he guided by God? If he was, how can you prove it? God would not have had Luther divide the church. Only satan would want that!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Unless YHWH'S WORD was right. (why it happened and why it was necessary in YHWH'S PLAN and PURPOSE)

 

[Goatee]

Gods word has always been right. Through Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition the CC has preached with the Holy Spirit guiding it.

Others have gone a different route......1,000s of denominations with each one claiming to be the 'right one'. All 'new' 'churches'.

 

[High Fidelity]

(nothing evil could last that long)

Why can't it?

Satan leads the rebellion against God in our fallen world. That's evil and that rebellion and its leader have been around long before the RCC.

 

[Goatee]

Why can't it?

Satan leads the rebellion against God in our fallen world. That's evil and that rebellion and its leader have been around long before the RCC.

Evil has been around since time begun! There is evil everywhere. No doubt inside the Vatican. But, Jesus is at the helm of His church! Unsinkable even in the roughest of storms!