If the Papacy were the beast...

[ken777]

People have always interpreted scripture wrongly to state that the beast etc is in the CC or the Papacy etc. Its usually done so by people who strongly hate the CC.

Not necessarily. The Catholic church, meaning the people, have always been mostly sincere Christians. The Papacy, however, is responsible for a great amount of evil. The most powerful religious position in the world today is that of Pope so it is the position that has the greatest potential for abuse.

 

[Goatee]

Not necessarily. The Catholic church, meaning the people, have always been mostly sincere Christians. The Papacy, however, is responsible for a great amount of evil. The most powerful religious position in the world today is that of Pope so it is the position that has the greatest potential for abuse.

In the past, yes. There were some evil popes. I agree. They were just 'men'. The 'Church' still survives because of the solid foundation it was built on. A pope is fallible.

 

[ken777]

In the past, yes. There were some evil popes. I agree. They were just 'men'. The 'Church' still survives because of the solid foundation it was built on. A pope is fallible.

I don't think it was so much a matter of "evil popes" as the papacy giving one man so much power. Popes who condoned the killing of "heretics" believed they were serving God.

 

[Goatee]

I don't think it was so much a matter of "evil popes" as the papacy giving one man so much power. Popes who condoned the killing of "heretics" believed they were serving God.

They were evil. If they believed they were serving God by carrying out such murders then they were obviously being deceived by the devil!

 

[tz620q]

The Papacy, however, is responsible for a great amount of evil. The most powerful religious position in the world today is that of Pope so it is the position that has the greatest potential for abuse.

The Native Americans could say the same thing about the U.S. presidents, who now hold the title of being the most powerful position in the world. I think we have to evaluate both sides of the coin and look at the good acts as well as the bad.

 

[Inkfingers]

Hold on.

I thought the Roman Catholic Church was the harlot of Babylon, not one of the Beasts. The harlot sits on one of the Beasts but is not the same as the Beast itself.

There are four "end time figures":

* The 1st Beast (the one from the sea, with 7 heads and 10 horns)

* The 2nd Beast (the one from the land, with one head and 2 horns like a lamb)

* The harlot of Babylon (sits on the 1st Beast)

* The Man of Perdition / Antichrist / Lawless one

Which of these is the Papacy / Roman Catholic Church?

 

[ken777]

The Native Americans could say the same thing about the U.S. presidents, who now hold the title of being the most powerful position in the world. I think we have to evaluate both sides of the coin and look at the good acts as well as the bad.

I think the Bible indicates that it will be a powerful religious leader who deceives the people.

 

[Goatee]

Hold on.

I thought the Roman Catholic Church was the harlot of Babylon, not one of the Beasts. The harlot sits on one of the Beasts but is not the same as the Beast itself.

There are four "end time figures":

* The 1st Beast (the one from the sea, with 7 heads and 10 horns)

* The 2nd Beast (the one from the land, with one head and 2 horns like a lamb)

* The harlot of Babylon (sits on the 1st Beast)

* The Man of Perdition / Antichrist / Lawless one

Which of these is the Papacy / Roman Catholic Church?

None of them, obviously!

 

[Goatee]

I think the Bible indicates that it will be a powerful religious leader who deceives the people.

Bolded for the truth

 

[Inkfingers]

None of them, obviously!

Well, you would say that wouldn't you.

 

[Stillicidia]

I said: If the Papacy were the beast, then why would it survive for 2000 years ? (nothing evil could last that long)
EastCoastRemnant said: Satan is the power behind this entity and he has been perpetrating evil for 6000 years now.
I said: You mean God did allow a heretical church to mislead people for that long (2000 years), while the true Church remained obscured for so long??? You are insulting God.

I said: If the Papacy were the beast, why Hollywood movies only attack the Catholic Church*, not Protestantism ?
EastCoastRemnant said: Maybe the Jews of Hollywood have an axe to grind with the RCC...
I said: Every Christian with some good sense knows that the Hollywood belongs to the Devil. Now would the Devil spend so much money each year just to attack his own subordinates ??? Why would not he rather spend that large amount of money to attack "God's Church" ???

I said: why the beast (what you call the Papacy) would inspire people to do works of love ?
EastCoastRemnant said: "Many will say to me on the day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not do all these wonderful things in your name?' and I will say unto them, depart ye workers of iniquity..."
I said: Mother Teresa, Saint Vincent de Paul, Jeanne Jugan, Saint Mary Mackillop, etc have benefited so many people and brought so many to Christ. They are all workers of iniquity? What right do you have to say so ???

* Such as Da Vinci Code, Stigmata, etc.

How did you know the papacy was the beast?

The Pope will cause all the religions to unite under one banner against the Christian and Jewish churches, to tax them out of existence.

This same banner will cause people to be unable to buy or sell, creating the great falling away.

Then there will be beheading,
Then there will be secret things

 

[ken777]

Hold on.

I thought the Roman Catholic Church was the harlot of Babylon, not one of the Beasts. The harlot sits on one of the Beasts but is not the same as the Beast itself.

There are four "end time figures":

* The 1st Beast (the one from the sea, with 7 heads and 10 horns)

* The 2nd Beast (the one from the land, with one head and 2 horns like a lamb)

* The harlot of Babylon (sits on the 1st Beast)

* The Man of Perdition / Antichrist / Lawless one

Which of these is the Papacy / Roman Catholic Church?

If the Roman Catholic Church is the harlot of Babylon then who are her harlot daughters but the Protestant denominations.

I believe there are Christians in every denomination but denominational boundaries have been an impediment to the Church, the universal body of believers.

 

[ken777]

Bolded for the truth

True of every post actually ... even if not all admit it

 

[Goatee]

How did you know the papacy was the beast?

The Pope will cause all the religions to unite under one banner against the Christian and Jewish churches, to tax them out of existence.

This same banner will cause people to be unable to buy or sell, creating the great falling away.

Then there will be beheading,
Then there will be secret things

Pure fantasy

 

[ken777]

How did you know the papacy was the beast?

The Pope will cause all the religions to unite under one banner against the Christian and Jewish churches, to tax them out of existence.

This same banner will cause people to be unable to buy or sell, creating the great falling away.

Then there will be beheading,
Then there will be secret things

There may well be a future Pope who abuses his great power but don't think that any denomination is any better or any worse than any other.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

"if" ?
Read everything(yes, it is a lot) revealed from Scripture by the Anabaptists, Waldensians,(not recent), and Reformers since Martin Luther.

 

[Goatee]

"if" ?
Read everything(yes, it is a lot) revealed from Scripture by the Anabaptists, Waldensians,(not recent), and Reformers since Martin Luther.

Why?

 

[tz620q]

I think the Bible indicates that it will be a powerful religious leader who deceives the people.

I think this thread has devolved from one of history to one of speculation. A look at history would show that the number of the beast was 666 in many early manuscripts and 616 in other early manuscripts. The difference of 50 could be due to the title being rendered from Latin, Nero Caesar into Hebrew gematria or being rendered from Greek, Neron Caesar into Hebrew gematria. That is one historical theory. There are others as numerous as there are opinions. In truth, what good does it do us to speculate, when we are called to be holy and set apart from this world anyway?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

..... Or by people sent by YHWH to set the prisoners free......

I think this thread has devolved from one of history to one of speculation. A look at history would show that the number of the beast was 666 in many early manuscripts and 616 in other early manuscripts. The difference of 50 could be due to the title being rendered from Latin, Nero Caesar into Hebrew gematria or being rendered from Greek, Neron Caesar into Hebrew gematria. That is one historical theory. There are others as numerous as there are opinions. In truth, what good does it do us to speculate, when we are called to be holy and set apart from this world anyway?

The Reformers , Waldensians, Anabaptists, and others
did not speculate.

 

[Goatee]

..... Or by people sent by YHWH to set the prisoners free......

The Reformers , Waldensians, Anabaptists, and others
did not speculate.

No, they interpreted scripture to suit their own individual beliefs / needs!